Talk:Tanis Half-Elven

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Tanis Half-Elven article.
Article policies
WikiProject Dragonlance
This article is part of WikiProject Dragonlance, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the Dragonlance universe. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start
This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Top
This article has been rated as top-Importance on the importance scale.


Contents

[edit] Let's fix the page up, people!

Hello. This is my first page edited, and i think it's a shame that Tanis, one of the greatest Heroes of the Lance, currently has a stub for his achievments, and not even a talk page. So, I, along with (hopefully) your help, wish to update this talk page and its related article to give Tanis the credit he deserves. One thing I think is important to mention is the Wyrmslayer. It's significantly important because it is Kith-Kanan's way of telling Tanis that he doesn't care about his half-elven past and has chosen him, in a way, to be successor to the Qualinesti throne. That doesn't really happen, though (I think), but his son does. The Wyrmslayer is also somewhat of a blessing to marry Laurana. Yet its not even mentioned. I've got other ideas, which I'll communicate if people reply to this. Thank you. DoomsDay349 02:26, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello DoomsDay349, and welcome to Wikipedia! Dragonlance is a HUGE series, and we are very few active contributors. I have recently started to polish Dragonlance articles (I divide my time cleaning up video games, computer-related and random articles). Wyrmslayer is explained in List of Dragonlance artifacts. Good to see another DL contributor in Wikipedia! -- ReyBrujo 02:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I see. If Wyrmslayer is mentioned in that list, perhaps we should breifly mention it with a link off to that article? P.S. Do you like my changes thus far? DoomsDay349 02:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Sure, you can link directly to Wyrmslayer when you mention it in the article. Feel free to shape this page, add information and rewrite what is already here. I will keep an eye here and warn or revert any change that may not be right (like adding too many external links to fan sites, etc). Remember that one of the most important guidelines in Wikipedia is to be bold. There are some guidelines to write fiction articles, but first you need to add more information into the article. Separating into sections is not only necessary, but needed, so it was a good change. Keep it up! -- ReyBrujo 02:49, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 :) Thanks. I've added that change, I think i should add the books under references. I'll go ahead and do it. DoomsDay349 02:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing the stub-rank

What material is needed to rightfully remove the stub rank? DoomsDay349 17:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

See the stub guidelines. If someone who has never read about Dragonlance is able to learn and understand what the subject is about and why it is important enough to belong to Wikipedia, it is not a stub but an article. Also, you would like to read the guide to writing better articles to get more ideas about how to format the article correctly. -- ReyBrujo 17:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace

Where was Tanis born? Qualinesti? DoomsDay349 17:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, his mother arrived pregnant to Qualinost, and Tanis was born on March 9, 249. -- ReyBrujo 17:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Using Copyrighted Material Without Infringing

I found a great page with tons of info on Tanis, and I'd like to use it, only it's copyrighted. The site is here http://www.dl3e.com/lexicon/13023.aspx. How might I go about using this info for this page? Is it legally possible? Thanks. DoomsDay349 04:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

You cannot copy the information that is there. However, you can verify information with the article (although some may say it is not really a reliable source). Usually, you write in the article what you remember from reading the book, and then verify the information with third-party sources. For examples, see Goldmoon and Riverwind, articles I finished editing yesterday to get some ideas about how to cite sources. -- ReyBrujo 05:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I see...perhaps I'll add a link off to the site. Seems to be the best I can do. I'm very much looking forward to when you get around to editing the article. You'll probably know more than me, and you seem to be awesome at citing stuff. In eager anticipation, DoomsDay349 05:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I haven't yet decided which article to overhaul. I was thinking in Sturm's one, since it is relatively short. Goldmoon took me some days because she lived for so many years, I had to research many books. I am waiting for some more comments about it to see if it is in good shape, so that I can request a peer review and then nominate it as a good article and, if possible, as a featured one. There aren't many DL active editors, so I decided to stop doing my regular stuff (checking articles for deletions, cleaning up random articles, etc) and work in the Dragonlance articles. Anyways, I don't think I will overhaul this article in a couple of weeks. -- ReyBrujo 05:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Info

Aside from the core sets of books, what are good books to find info on Tanis? DoomsDay349 21:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kindred Spirits, The Companions, Steel and stone, Tanis, the shadow years and The inheritance. -- ReyBrujo 22:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Which of the core novels must be read to understand those?DoomsDay349 22:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
None. All those stories are about Tanis before the War of the Lance. Kindred Spirits talks since he was born until he went to Solace. The Companions talk about the first quest between the Heroes of the Lance (except Goldmoon and Riverwind, but including Kitiara) before the War of the Lance. Steel and stone talk about Tanis' first meeting and relationship with Kitiara. Tanis, the shadow years talk about what Tanis did during those five years the heroes were separated searching for clues about the gods. The inheritance talks about his mother's life. So, in DL chronological order, they would be The inheritance, Kindred Spirits, Steel and Stone, The Companions, Tanis, the shadow years, Dragons of Autum Twilight, etc. -- ReyBrujo 22:34, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, one last question. Are there two seperate books, Tanis and The Shadow Years, or one book called Tanis: The Shadow Years? DoomsDay349 00:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
It is one, see http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dlnovel/179950000 here. -- ReyBrujo 00:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So, About Citing...

The work on Goldmoon is excellent, but the citing, which is also very excellent, confuses me. I want to make Tanis's article great too. Is all that citing really neccessary? Would a references section that held all the books used work as well? DoomsDay349 22:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

You can name the books. However, people will want to know at least in which book something you say that happened... happened. Just cite the books, and later someone will fix the references and/or delete what cannot be found anywhere. -- ReyBrujo 22:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plans

Gonna fix/add to references, as well as update rest of article after Role in War of the Lance. Just thought I'd leave a reminder for me and for info for anyone who cares. DoomsDay349 21:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

I'd like to add some pictures, but I'm not sure how to do so and how do not violate copyrights in doing so. Someone drop a link to some Wikipedia page to show me how to do it? And could you point out some good pictures if you know any? Thanks. DoomsDay349 00:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I've looked at it myself and it's pretty complicated. Basically, the Tanis Half-Elven pictures are copyrighted, so you have to make a statement saying why you believe that using the picture on this site is fair use, where you got, what type of copyright it is, etc. ddcc 02:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
This is what I usually do:
  • Finish the article. I try not to add images while writing the article, instead I add them once the article is mature enough (that is, I can't think of anything to add). Images don't make an article MUCH better, but can make it A BIT worse which, for my standards, is awful.
  • Based on the article length, I consider a minimun amount of images to insert. My own standard is that one image every 10kb is fine enough.
  • I read the article again, and determine which images are needed. If possible, I try not to add repeated images (that is, images that show little character changes). In Goldmoon's case, one of the images was there quite a long time ago, and decided to keep it because it can be also used for the War of the Lance article, when the group travels to Xak Tsaroth. I chose the Riverwind and Goldmoon image because I can use it in both articles. The last one, shows an ancient Goldmoon, which hasn't been shown in the article yet, Dhamon and Skie, so I can use the same image in three articles. As you see, minimize the amount of pics you upload to prevent copyright problems.
  • Search for the images. I usually first check for promotional images released by the copyright owner, then for images that are low resolution, and finally through a topic's network in internet.
  • When choosing an image, never modify them unless they are free as in freedom. Since you can crop the images, choose one that has no watermarks of any type. Once you find it, consider its dimension. A 1900x1600 image cannot be uploaded to Wikipedia because anyone can download and print it, and since it has a high resolution the printed copies may be sold. Always err to the safe side.
  • When uploading the image, be sure to add the source, especially from where the image came. That is important so that any editor can determine if the image was legally uploaded or not. Also, add a fair use rationale (see in Fair use guidelines) where you assume the responsability of uploading the image (as the guidelines say, you don't upload images and later Wikipedia determines if they are legal, instead you assume the responsability of uploading images in a legal way).
  • Finally, don't clutter the article with images. Don't add an image of the character running, sitting, eating, sleeping, etc. Also, remember that the article must talk about the image, and not the image talk for the article. People without graphical browsers need to get the same information than people with them. In other words, don't do something like "XXX has a strange face. <image showing his face>". Someone who can't see the images (for whatever reason) must learn as much as the one who is looking at it, so it is better "XXX has a strange face, with hawk-like nose ending in a pointed tip, big green-blue eyes and a small mouth, etc, etc.".
If you want, you can post a link or two with the images you think that would be good to have here, explaining why you think so, and we can tell you whether they are absolutely necessary or not. -- ReyBrujo 03:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Present Tense

I've just read the fiction guidelines, and I see that you are supposed to write in the present tense. I plan on fixing this, but I have a question: I want to write in the past tense up to when the story begins for Tanis, for example, any info about his parents, I wish to write in the past tense. Is that alright? I will go ahead and do it like that and change it if there is a problem. Thanks. DoomsDay349 23:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Per the same guidelines, you can use past tense when talking about past events in the fictional world. I remind you that Tanis is not alive, thus you should not really divide the article between "before he was born" and "after he was born", since he has never been born, as he is not alive. -- ReyBrujo 00:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

This picture http://darkelf007.tripod.com/tanis.gif, has a photo of Tanis that I think could be suitable, albeit a bit small. Tell me what you think. DoomsDay349 15:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

That is a crop of the Dragons of Autumn Twilight cover. When using Fair use images, we should limit ourselves to "complete" images, not crops. -- ReyBrujo 18:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Using the cover of the book is not really fine. Better to find a more useful image, like the art of the cover without the titles. -- ReyBrujo 16:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
These are several photoes I have found of Tanis from a google image search: http://www.step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/picturesd/dragnlnc/lance21.jpg (this one prolly won't work, but just throwing out ideas)
http://images.quizilla.com/E/Ejoku/1070587866_DLTanisuse.gif (as far as this one's officiality, I dunno, as it was on a myspace page)
http://library.thinkquest.org/28010/tanis.jpg (pretty good but small)
http://darkelf007.tripod.com/tanis.gif (nothing to say on this one, I like it)
That's what I got, tell me what you think. DoomsDay349 20:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that they're all cropped images without any copyright images. I'm going to be able to get Masters of Dragonlance Art soon, so maybe I can get some pictures from there?ddcc 00:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I see...that book should help, defineitly. We can postpone further until you get the book then...until then the book is ok, I guess. DoomsDay349 02:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I should just upload a lot of the images from that book for common characters, as I think the tiamat image is a copyright violation and there is (to my knowledge) a suitable picture in the book. Any other images to upload while I will have it? ddcc 02:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There is no need to upload individual images. Try to minimize the amount of Fair use images. If you have one image with three characters, it is better to upload and use it in three articles than uploading three images to be used each in one article. -- ReyBrujo 03:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Can the statements there be verified? DoomsDay349 18:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. -- ReyBrujo 18:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! DoomsDay349 18:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birth?

Somehow I'd missed out on the fact that Tanis' mother wasn't actually raped. O___o The statements in the opening paragraph are therefore astonishing enough that they really need to be cited. Maybe even hit with a spoiler tag. --Masamage 04:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, it depends on the interpretation of the book. However, I agree that is pretty bad to have at the lead, so I have slightly reformatted it to prevent that from happening again. -- ReyBrujo 04:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
That is much better. But which book is it in? Because that seems too detailed to be an interpretation of anything in the "core" books... --Masamage 04:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
It is in The Inheritance. -- ReyBrujo 04:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The Inheritance.ddcc 04:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC) (apparently both of us replied at the same time, causing an edit conflict)
Cool, thanks. Love those speedy replies. :D --Masamage 05:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Early Life

Hello I'd like to refer to the concluding statements of this section indicating that 'he was mistaken over Kitiara's Pregnancy'.

I actually have read the book, "Steel and Stone" which the first meeting of Tanis and Kitiara took place and while I confirm that it was not explicitly stated she was pregnant. There were VERY STRONG hints in the book. At least 2 characters pointed out to her that she was pregnant, a female mage and a sentient giant owl when she was unaware what was wrong with her body. She initially refused to accept this. While wondering who the father was, she had a dream favoring Tanis as the father of this child and other children in that dream.

In the epilogue of the book, Kitiara insists that she was not pregnant to Tanis but as the writing had indicated, she had no wish to be tied down and this is consistent for her character. She would deny a true pregnancy. and he himself doesn't fully believe her so readers are left with...

(The last lines of the book are:) "A few months later, the swordswoman disappeared. She reappeared several months after that, claiming disappointment at not having found the purple stone that had been lost in the Plains of Dust. But Kitiara seemed curiously at peace for the first time in months.

Tanis was left wondering"

Reading this I feel compelled to support the idea that Kit does have a child by Tanis. If this has been officially removed from continuity, I feel both the book's implications and the retcon should be referenced in the main article. And that 'wrongly' should thus be removed.

I have not read books after Legends in term of timeline so pls pardon me if I am ignorant of something. I'm also aware that a character being Kitiara and Tanis's child wasn't developed. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Runehawk 17:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Pointless facts

There are several references in here that serve absolutely no purpose in describing the character of Tanis Half-Elven, for example the lines a la "He has a horse, again, this time named Zippy". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.177.80 (talk) 06:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability template

I have restored the Notability template as this article does not citereliable sources to demonstrate notability.--Gavin Collins (talk) 08:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

What would be considered a demonstration of notability for a character in a fantasy novel?

Snafu25 (talk) 08:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Real-world coverage from reliable secondary sources: an article in a newspaper or journal which provides substantial (i.e. non-trival) coverage of the character which is not from an in universe perspective. --Gavin Collins (talk) 09:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

is there a good example for this somewhere? i mean a wikipedia page for a fantasy character that does show notability. other pages i have looked at of characters on a comparable scale (Rand al'Thor, belgarion) don't seem helpfull. Snafu25 (talk) 09:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Alas, there are no examples of real-world coverage from relaible secondary sources in any of the articles about Dragonlance characters. However you could look at Wikipedia:Reliable source examples, you might get some ideas from there. --Gavin Collins (talk) 11:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)