Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive08

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Philippine Mythology and Philippine Prehistory Projects?

Hi folks. New to making wikis. I was wondering about those pages that say "this page is part of a (subject) project" and was wondering if we could unify articles pertaining to Philippine Mythology and Philippine Prehistory? There seeems to be a lot of variation in these articles, both in terms of extent of content relative to one another and the nature of the content of each article. Does putting these topic under a project banner resolve this?

Also there doesn't seem to be much conversation going on regarding confusing things like what the distinction is between Philippine mythology and Philippine Legends, or the differentiation between the various ethnic mythologies (Tagalog, Visayan, Igorot, etc) of the Philippines.

Right now, for example, the Philippine mythology wiki has what i believe is an unfair focus on Philippine Legendary Creatures. Mythology is a much more expansive topic that covers more than just creatures, I'm sure, but I don't quite know how to fix it.

Er... hope this isn't a stupid thing to bring up. Hehe. Alternativity 17:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome! Bienvenido! (Is the welcoming template for newbies available now?) The topic isn't a stupid thing to bring up. Yes, there should be a project page on Philippine mythology and legends and fables. That would be a nice project for articles like Bathala, Maria Makiling, Tyanak, Dwende, Tikbalang, Kapre, etc. Before the Spaniards came to the Philippines, our ancestors were either muslims (down south), pagans, or worshipped several gods and goddesses. Definitely, mythology has a place on Philippine prehistory and Philippine prehistory should be a content on Philippine Mythology project if there will would be any. --Weekeejames 19:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

How should we undertake this, then? :-) Alternativity 10:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Start researching first (?). This project would prolly be an intensive as well as extensive work considering we have so many tribes with different myths, fables and legends from the prehistoric time down to the present. After researching, then you can start doing the layout and contents for the project Wikipedia:Philippine Mythology. From there, the wikipedians will be able to start helping (suggestions, revisions, editing). Good luck! --Weekeejames 22:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

What to name our airports?

Okay, for the sake of standardization, what do you suggest should be the procedure for naming international airports in Tagalog and other Philippine languages? There are two possibilities:

  • Paliparang Pandaigdig and translations (Spanish word order)
  • Pandaigdigang Paliparan and translations (English word order)

The names are used interchangeably. Because of that, we need to choose which one we're going to adopt for all Philippine Wikipedias and for the Tagalog/Filipino names of the airports on the English Wikipedia. --Sky Harbor 14:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

We usually say "magandang babae" (as a standalone phrase) rather than "babae na maganda or babaeng maganda" although both are correct and the latter is used for emphasis and in complete sentences (eg. Ang babaeng maganda ay magnanakaw.). But this does not mean the former cannot be used (eg. Ang magandang babae ay magnanakaw.). Thus, the modifier, generally, comes before the noun in standalone phrases (payat na lalake, bilog na buwan, pulang kotse). In light of this, International Airport (as a standalone phrase) should be translated as "Pandaigdigang or Pangdaigdigang Paliparan". --Weekeejames 20:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

But in this case it will be used as let's say, Ninoy Aquino International Airport in Tagalog. --Sky Harbor 23:58, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Again, the modifier should come before the noun and/or phrase. "Ninoy Aquino" acts as a modifier to the phrase "International Airport". Therefore, it should be translated as "Ninoy Aquino Pandaigdigang Paliparan" (incomplete phrase) or "Ang Ninoy Aquino Pandaigdigang Paliparan" (complete phrase). It would be akward and wrong to say "Ang Pandaigdigang Paliparan Ninoy Aquino" which implies the international airport is owned by Ninoy Aquino - "Ang Pandaigdigang Paliparan (ni) Ninoy Aquino" or worst, "Ang Paliparang pandaigdigan Ninoy Aquino". --Weekeejames 01:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way there are cases like Zamboanga City International Airport which has to be translated as "(Ang) Pandaigdigang Paliparan ng Lungsod ng Zamboanga" because, indeed, the airport might be owned by the local government of the city of Zamboanga (if it were). --Weekeejames 01:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

But in this case, ni is not used because Ninoy does not own the airport. That's why the ligature used is ng, as in Paliparang Pandaigdig ng Ninoy Aquino or Pandaigdigang Paliparan ng Ninoy Aquino. --Sky Harbor 02:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I know they always refer to it as Paliparang Pandaigdig, whenever you are about to land right? This is the one in practice. Scorpion prinz 03:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Which airlines use it though? Bluemask told me on the Tagalog Wikipedia that Cebu Pacific uses such, but how many other airlines do? I think PAL uses it also, but I'm not sure. --Sky Harbor 11:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
If I remember right, it is used by a Filipina flight attendant whatever the airline is. --Mithril Cloud 13:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
So Paliparang Pandaigdig it is? If it is, then we need translations to the other Philippine languages as part of standardization. --Sky Harbor 14:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the 'Paliparang Pandaigdig'...heard it from both Cebu Pacific and PAL flight attendants just last September. -- Corsarius 12:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Go to google and type with the double quotation marks the words 'Paliparang Pandaigdig'; you will get only 15 results while you will get 83 results for 'Pandaigdigang Paliparan'. It's no surprise. It should really be translated as Pandaigdigang Paliparan Ng Ninoy Aquino. --Weekeejames 19:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but what might be Internet practice may be different from real-life practice. I might take a further investigation into it. --Sky Harbor 21:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't get it. If I had to follow your logic, then it follows that Wikipedia might not be a real-life practice thing because it's on the Internet? Then what's our use here? I tried to Google the words because some thought flight attendants were more credible (than perhaps writers on the web) or such usage is more in common "practice" than the other. But Google's data show the otherwise... --Weekeejames 23:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Well I tend to not question Google (thinking Windows 98 and others), but I would like to see more statistics on this. I might ask some of the Wikipedians working on Philippine airports, or I can call the airport offices and see what messages they use. --Sky Harbor 11:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Translations

I think I can come up with the following names (NAIA as an example):

  • English: Ninoy Aquino International Airport
  • Tagalog: Paliparang Pandaigdig ng Ninoy Aquino
  • Cebuano: Tugpahanang International sa Ninoy Aquino (rough translation)
  • Kapampangan: Sulapawang Pangmabilug a Yatu ning Ninoy Aquino (rough translation)
  • Chabacano/Spanish: Aeropuerto Internacional Ninoy Aquino

For Cebuano and Kapampangan, I had to use dictionaries to compile the proper forms of the names.

Please fill in as you go (and correct if necessary). --Sky Harbor 14:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I read your reasons for using ng over ni above. But it doesn't sound right to me. For one thing, being genitive markers (not ligatures) ng and ni are synonymous with the latter being used for names of people. Basically, you are saying "International Airport of Ninoy Aquino" either way. Another alternative would be to use the ligature na - Paliparang Pandaigdig na Ninoy Aquino. Sounds odd, but technically "Ninoy Aquino" is modifying Paliparang Pandaigdig.

Also, is there an official Tagalog term used by the airport? If not, then I'd go with the English translation despite being in those foreign Wikipedias.

Also, the Spanish translation would be Aeropuerto Internacional Ninoy Aquino judging from the Spanish version of Charles de Gaulle International Airport which is es:Aeropuerto Charles de Gaulle. --Chris S.

I still don't get why it's 'Paliparang Pandaigdig' over 'Pandaigdigang Paliparan' ^_^. The original edit was for Chabacano (Somehow, someone inserted Spanish) that was translated from Tagalog, not from English. Hence, from 'ng' came 'de' and I agree, 'de' should be taken out of which would still be correct for Spanish (I'm taking 'de' out). Also, indeed Ninoy Aquino is a modifier for the International Airport. Hence, If I go back to my original contention, Ninoy Aquino Pandaigdigang Paliparan, I realize it would sound odd. If we use the ligature 'na' it would sound right. Now let me expound. 'Bilog na buwan' is as correct as 'buwan na bilog' but not 'buwang bilog' and 'babae na matanda' cannot be 'matanda na babae' (sounds odd) for we would be saying 'matandang babae'. Now if we apply, Ninoy Aquino International Airport, we would not be saying 'Ninoy Aquino Pandaigdigang Paliparan' (sounds odd), neither 'Pandaigdigang Paliparan na Ninoy Aquino' (sounds odd), but since we're getting technical here (I remember grammar and sentence diagraming in high school :D), it seems like the correct translation would be Pandaigdigang Paliparang Ninoy Aquino. --Weekeejames 20:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
That's because the de in French is already de in Spanish. Having de twice is redundant. --Sky Harbor 12:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I think it's because they treat "Charles de Gaulle" as an adjective. It's like with street names. "George Washington street" - "calle George Washington" or "rue George Washington." How are street names done in Tagalog if they are? "Kalye Manuel Quezon?" I only remember English and Spanish street names when I lived there. --Chris S. 15:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
If they (street names in English) were done in Tagalog, they would have become "Kalye ng Manuel Quezon" sa Lungsod ng Quezon, for example. --Weekeejames 20:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
When places are named after people, I’ve observed that Tagalog does away with the ng. Compare: Lungsod ng Maynila and Lungsod Quezon. (It’s the same with Spanish: Ciudad de Barcelona and Ciudad Juárez, etc.) So Chris is right, Kalye or Lansangang Manuel L. Quezon would be the appropriate translation. (Walang -ng sa dulo ng ‘Kalye’ because for some reason it just isn’t used with Spanish-origin words, even when they end with a vowel or an N. Compare: Haring Juan and Prinsesa Carmen.)
Not in all cases. Why do we have, let's say, Lalawigan ng Quirino, Lalawigan ng Aurora or Lalawigan ng Quezon, which are all named after people? Sometimes, Quezon City is translated into Tagalog with the ng. --Sky Harbor 06:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Sa bagay. There’s also Houston, Texas, and similar others.
Also, you say in the Filipino prayers "Dios Amang makapangyarihan sa lahat na may gawa ng langit at lupa...", "Ipinanganak ni Santa Mariang Birhen..."...so it's Paliparang Pandaigdig... Ü Scorpion prinz 03:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't find it akward to say Amang Dios or Birheng Santa Maria. Works either way. But again, generally in Filipino, in standalone phrases, modifiers seem to precede nouns and nouns preceding modifiers in sentences. As a standalone phrase, I still say it's Pandaigdigang Paliparan. --Weekeejames 19:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

New Philippine Flags from User:Zscout370

Below is a message from User:Zscout370:

The blue shade flags are on Wiki now at Image:Flag of the Philippines (light blue).svg and Image:Flag of the Philippines (navy blue).svg. -- User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)--Pinay06(Talk•Email) 22:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I do apologize for not posting the message myself, but I was finishing up Image:Coat of Arms of the Philippines.svg (the version based in RA 8491). Enjoy. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised the old one was replaced. Technically, as long as the people have not voted in a referendum designed to adopt the changes to the national symbols per the Constitution, the new CoA should not be used for the time being. --Sky Harbor 05:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Give me a day or two and I can try and put in the eagle and lion in the arms. When I drew the arms, I followed what was said in RA 8491. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 09:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Why are we fussing around re-rendering the coat of arms? the one used on wikipedia is absolutely the official one.Gareon 12:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Is one currently used .PNG? Methinks the .SVG is better but the lion and the eagle should be added. --Howard the Duck 12:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I finished the lion this morning, going to work on the eagle in a short time. If the image is not finished today, then it will be finished tomorrow. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
We can have both. The present one (with eagle and lion) is PNG, the one without is SVG. Converting the present one into SVG would be better than keeping it as PNG. --Sky Harbor 21:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I finished the lion today, I am 1/3rd done with the eagle. As I told Pinay in an email message, what I would do is I would rename the current SVG file as Coat of Arms of the Philippines (RA 8491).svg and upload the official arms at Coat of Arms of the Philippines.svg once I finish it. Would that be satisfactory? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Finished it. Took a while, but the eagle and lion have been added to the SVG image. I am going to make modifications to it to make it look better, but I am going to get better scans first from whatever offices I can contact. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

We also need a navy blue flag. From the commonwealth era, until marcos, and after marcos until the prescription of the new law, the blue field of the Philippine flag was navy blue, similar to the US flag. Scorpion prinz 23:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Already covered, Image:Flag of the Philippines (navy blue).svg. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The navy blue should actually resemble the navy blue of the US Flag. Scorpion prinz 03:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

On Chavacano

As much as I support the healthy growth of Wikipedias, I am concerned if this is the case with Chavacano. According to that wiki's recent changes list, an anonymous editor is placing articles which, under my inspection, are in Spanish rather than Chavacano, being just copy-pastes from the Spanish Wikipedia to the Chavacano one. What do we do? --Sky Harbor 23:47, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Checked location here but found it here--Pinay (talk•email) 00:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, user is in Spain. You are right, these are all in Spanish and not Chavacano. Maybe he is planning to translate to Chavacano after all these Spanish articles are transferred?--Pinay (talk•email) 00:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Well shit, someone's putting in English articles too for Quezon province-related articles. Hurm! --Chris S. 08:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I (not anonymously)also placed Spanish versions (and bad Chavacano). The anonymous guy was also adding Spanish versions. Weekeejames said it was easier for him to use the English version and translation so somebody must have read this and started adding them. The processis messy. I'll be using the Chabacano translation request page from now on. I'm trying to learn Chavacano but the bulk is done by Weekeejames.--Jondel 10:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

There have been, actually, several Spanish wikipedians creating/initializing articles in Spanish at the Chavacano Wikipedia just as there are Wikipedians like Jondel who also initializes articles using either English, Spanish or Chabacano. I must admit that it is easier to translate articles from English to Chabacano than Spanish to Chabacano because I'm not fluent in Spanish. But I cannot say NO or STOP these Spanish Wikipedians because they are helping. I thought these Spanish wikipedians must be fascinated with Chavacano. Feeling nila, parang kambal ang dalawang wika! Oks lang yun at nag i-initialize lang naman ng articles ang mga yun! There is a Stub template that I created for such articles. Messy nga at this point, but I am definitely monitoring and it will all soon be fixed as soon as my home computer is back in shape. Gracias. --Weekeejames 21:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

2006 - Death of Dictators!

Before celebrating the upcoming year of 2007, you should realize that the year 2006 was a year where 5 cruel and authoritarian dictators that shaped the world died!

I hope they'll surely be enlightened for what they had done to their people and to the world. --- Kevin Ray 06:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Is P.W. Botha even a dictator? I know he was a cruel president, but dictator he is not~, I think. --Sky Harbor 08:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I didn't even know that Prime Minister Botha was classified as a dictator.. --Glenncando 08:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
His authoritarian tendencies and apartheid policies made him a dictator to his people. -- Kevin Ray 09:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Tendencies does not make a leader authoritarian/dictator. Neverthless, only Saddam suffered an execution, all others died in old age. --Howard the Duck 12:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I remembered this when I saw that four of them died due to heart attacks, lol. -- Mithril Cloud 14:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Don't forget Former Turkmenistan President for Life Saparmurat "Turkmebanshi" Niyazov - 2006-12-21 Berserkerz Crit 10:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
He’s dead? I didn’t know that.

I once read in Pinochet-related articles here in the WP that, had Pinochet not taken over Chile, Allende himself would’ve turned into a “dictator” anyway, only this time allied with the Soviets. This was the Cold War, remember. At least Pinochet left Chile with sound economic policies as his legacy.

GMA photo

I am not sure if Wikipedia lacks free photos of Arroyo, but I managed to upload Image:Arroyo, Putin, Chang APEC Hanoi 2006.jpg so far. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Putin Arroyo Russia-ASEAN Summit 2005.jpg is another find. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Government_of_the_Philippines/Topics

Re: showing U.S. agencies instead of Philippine agencies-

No bots edited it, so maybe what happened is someone took this from the US Portal and just didn't change them at all. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed all US entries from the page, feel free to add the PH items back in. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Government offices are listed here and in http://www.gov.ph/directory --Pinay (talk•email) 03:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for helping me in this portal. I was just mum on this portal to all of you because I was so busy creating new articles that I had no time to discuss it to all of you. So, I think, I need to rest some bones and just continue to contribute later. -- Kevin Ray 07:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm adding a bunch of bureaus, but some have been misclassified. For example, CHED is not under the DepEd, rather, it is under the Office of the President. --Sky Harbor 11:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

There's a new Map of Manila

Hello! After repeated urgings by Scorpion prinz (and because it's the holidays—more free time), I have updated Image:Ph_map_manila_large.png with Image:Ph_map_manila.svg (it's in the Wikimedia Commons). This is an SVG version so there should be no scaling issues unlike with the original PNG version. I think everything's set for replacement. The problem is that I since the original file is in the Wikimedia Commons, the original PNG is used across Wikimedia's projects (e.g., Italian's it:Manila). And so, I know of no way to determine all the uses of the original file. An additional complication is that the original is a featured picture. I'm not sure how the FP status can be transferred to the updated map. --seav 10:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Uy..thanks, finally this is more accurate. Congratulations. uhm my alma mater, it's actually Don Bosco Technical College, not Don Bosco Technical Institute :-( it's correct on the old one. anyway congratulations. Scorpion prinz 14:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The new map is re-nominated for Featured Picture. Please go and vote. =) --seav 03:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


And speaking of maps...

I've begun as a personal project an investigation of characters in Philippine Folk Literature so I can update and citation-improve the relevant Wiki entries. This week, it's Tikbalang week for me, and next week, it'll be Bernarndo Carpio.

But it doesn't seem like I'm gonna learn how to put graphics in anytime soon and was wondering about maps...

The locator map of Laguna with the appropriate town highlighted and named is okay for the individual towns, but I was wondering if a map could be made with each town named and the national highway(/s) shown? This would be great for tourists, drivers, and researchers

Also, is it possible to have geographical maps showing our mountaing ranges? Doesn't have to be uber-accurate - the same quality as the inked maps in Lord of the Rings would be quite sufficient. I have trouble looking for maps with geographical features of the philippines. :-(

Or at least I need advice on where to find and download these maps. :-) The ones I find are either too detailed and unwieldy or so small they're unhelpful for data at the provincial level.

Thanks. Alternativity 16:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Seals

Most of Metro Manila's seals have been removed from certain pages due to a lack of information regarding licensing. For example, in the Metro Manila page, only the seals of Manila and Makati remain. If anyone can help me add the remaining seals back with proper information, that would be great. I have already done the one of Pasig City. --Sky Harbor 11:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

RE WP:TAMBAY

Hmm it seems to me there are a lot of active Filipino Wikipedians out there while randomly looking at edit histories of varied Philippine-related topics. But looking here there's only a few of us. I think maybe we should promote WP:TAMBAY to other Filipino Wikipedians, place a message on a user's talk page who you know is Filipino (edits RP related articles or has a is a Filipino userbox on their userpage) and let them know that this place exists. Eh? Berserkerz Crit 17:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I have just recently been doing that. Maybe we need a welcoming committee, too,...--Pinay (talk•email) 18:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
And a welcoming template to boot. =D Berserkerz Crit 19:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Please post when we got this welcoming template done...--Pinay (talk•email) 23:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Kuliglig

Kindly help us improve article related to kuliglig or hand tractors since its a popular innovation in Philippine provinces. Jeepney is a good article. --Exec8 18:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Found three refs for some "common use" statements, changed "vehicle registration" (text was lifted from the news article). Please upload some images, the picture there was removedLenticel 01:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions

Re - It might be a good idea to create a naming conventions section at Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines. SWAdair | Talk 09:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

When a certain type of article has multiple ways of being named, members of a project often will decide how articles in the scope of the project should be named. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions for some examples. SWAdair | Talk 04:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

A few of us here in Tambayan made Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Philippine-related articles). --Chris S. 20:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

So, Chris, do you think, as per suggested, we need to add a naming conventions section (like Others) to the manual of style? If so, we need to have a long list/short list of words, examples. --Pinay (talk•email) 15:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
What is the naming convention for, first of all? I'm kinda lost. ;-) --Chris S. 02:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, it was in response to this redundancies issue or discussion here followed bythis--Pinay (talk•email) 02:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Sari-sari store

Let us improve article on sari-sari stores. I believe its a part of the popular culture here in the Philippines.

  • Tindahan ni Aling Nena
  • Tindahan ni Gloria
  • Tindahan ni Erap

Typical items: Sardines, candies, chocolates, tuna, softdrink, beer, jin, rhum, biscuits, junk foods, shampoo, soap, sanitary napkin, cooking oil, sugar, rice, e-load, autoload.--Exec8 18:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Add Lion Tiger, Biogesic, Neozep, etc.--Pinay (talk•email) 18:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
There's an image on Sari sari store here--Pinay (talk•email) 01:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


Created the article. However much work needs to be done
  • The link to tingi points to some place else, I hope somebody would disambig and create a tingi(culture?) article
  • The sari-sari store in culture (songs, politics etc.)
  • Extra refs if you could find some (more is always better)
  • categories (no idea)
  • Pictures
  • Limang pisong bawang tsaka sibuyas... Paload na rin po, trenta

Lenticel 07:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


I've added one reference to a newly-created "in popular culture" section (that is, the sari-sari store as featured in the Eraserheads' Tindahan ni Aling Nena). I believe it's a good example because the song's narrator actually bought something (to wit, vinegar), thus citing an example of what really happens in a sari-sari store (though the later half of the story focuses more on the persons than on the setting).
I was about to add some movie titles and comic strips, but I'm afraid it might open the gates to some non-notable examples, so I'll need to determine which of these are worth including. For example, which notable comic strip series has a prominent sari-sari store or has most of its scenes happening in a sari-sari store? (The first thing that came up is Pugad Baboy, but since I don't often read the Inquirer, I'll need to verify this first by browsing through the annual PB compilation books). --- Tito Pao 20:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Category

The category for this discussion page is:

Categories: Filipino politicians | Presidents of the Philippines | Lists relating to the Philippine presidency | Vice Presidents of the Philippines

Strange. (_|_) --Weekeejames 21:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It's because of the templates that were posted here. It's gone now since they were archived. --Mithril Cloud 05:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Just a tip, for those not in the know, when you talk about a category and make a wikilink to it, make sure you use a colon (:) before the Category name to avoid a discussion page from being categorized. So [[:Category:Filipino politicians]] will come out as Category:Filipino politicians. More than likely the archived pages are still part of the category. --Chris S. 02:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Aguinaldo signature

The signature image of Emilio Aguinaldo is missing again. Can anyone please post it back. It looks like it has been removed due to the licensing again. Thanks!!! --Glenncando 18:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Uploaded by SunKing (notify | contribs). Image that has to be used under fair use provision, but does not meet fair use requirements: no source, used for illustration purposes in infobox, no fair use rationale.- YellowDot 13:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
06:13, October 7, 2006 Howcheng (Talk | contribs) deleted "Image:Aguinaldo Sig.png" (Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2006 October 1) --Exec8 07:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
If it is from a public document, you can use {{PD-PhilippinesPubDoc}}. --Sky Harbor 23:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

San Jose, Antique

Should it be moved to San Jose de Buenavista, Antique? According to this "de Buenavista" is a recent addition to the name. --Howard the Duck 14:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

IMHO, I suggest keep it as is for now since that is the most commonly known name anyway, at least until for sometime, if not a longer time, but redirect San Jose de Buenavista to San Jose, Antique...--Pinay (talk•email) 15:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, you did it already! Very proactive Howard! Good job! --Pinay (talk•email) 15:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I didn't do anything. It article was sitting at San Jose, Antique, and still is. The problem is that SJDB is the complete name, and looking at the Provinces of the Philippines, and there are 2 provinces with "San Jose" as their capital, I'd thought, why not add "de Buenavista" to distinguish it from San Jose, Dinagat Islands (don't forget about the 2 San Fernandos) --Howard the Duck 15:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I meant the redirect of San Jose de Buenavista, Antique to San Jose, Antique - oh, User:TheCoffee did it. Check here ...Well, it should be an easy merge? or move, then. After all, if there are redirects, then they will still be directed to the article...--Pinay (talk•email) 16:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Dynamic Mapping

Hey lets work together in making dynamic maps or those maps with links. Lets look at the following:

Maybe it can be used in Regional maps or Provincial Maps. Using this type of map users will simply click on the province, municipality or city they want to visit.

--Exec8 16:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I made some (last year) for the UAAP, NCAA Philippines, and Bulacan. I wonder if there are free satellite images that we can use... --Howard the Duck 12:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I uploaded Image:Philippinesaerialview.jpg and Image:Mapphilippines.jpg in Commons sometime ago. --Pinay (talk•email) 16:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I tried doing this but this quite difficult since the country is an archipelago, there are many provinces, and their names are long. --Howard the Duck 11:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

2014 Asian Beach Games

Philippines will be hosting another edition of the Asian Games, Asian Beach Games in Boracay, Malay, Aklan. If it will push through, it will be the 2nd time the Philippines hosting an OCA event after 60 years (1954 Asian Games) and 9 years after the 2005 Southeast Asian Games. --Exec8 04:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

New articles for the Senate of the Philippines

I had just finished yesterday a 2 days ago, articles about the positions in the Senate of the Philippines:

But there are a few people whose biographies aren't available like: Leticia Ramos Shahani, John Henry Osmeña, Ernesto Maceda, Sotero Laurel, Manuel Briones, Melecio Arranz, Jose Roy, Jose Clarin, Esperidion Guanco, Neptali A. Gonzales, Wigberto Tañada, Estanislao Fernandez, Gerardo Roxas, Cipriano Primicias, Tomas Cabili, Vicente Francisco, Benigno S. Aquino, Francisco Enage, Francisco Villanueva, and here's one more thing: Try to click this: Orlando Mercado... he was a senator of the philippines but in wikipedia, it's a baseball player! Can we make Orlando S. Mercado to differ it from Orlando Mercado. --- Kevin Ray 12:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Solution for that one is to use Orlando Mercado (politician), then make a disambig link on both articles. -- Mithril Cloud 04:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I actually liked Orlando S. Mercado, unless the baseball player also has a S middle initial. Or maybe the baseball player has a diacritic? Hmm... --Howard the Duck 05:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I have also made another article: Party leaders of the Senate of the Philippines which gives an account on both of the party leaders of the Senate of the Philippines. -- Kevin Ray 09:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Wrongful deletions

For those who did not read my warning on seals posted in earlier discussion, this will sound quite interesting: the nightmare of {{PD-PhilippinesGov}} struck us again with the deletion of all the seals of Metro Manila excluding Manila, Makati and Pasig. If they can be re-uploaded with proper rationales, that would be very nice. --Sky Harbor 23:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

If you're unsuccessful in finding them here, look at Wikipedia mirrors. Sometimes they store the photos. --Chris S. 00:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I was able to undelete them and then replace them with the proper tag, Template:PD-PhilippinesPubDoc. Tama ba yan? Sana wala pang bwisit. --Chris S. 01:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

(Off topic: Chris, can you undelete USTLogo.jpg? I dunno how/why it was deleted. --Howard the Duck 06:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

Done. It apparently had the Template:coatofarms licensing rationale. But that template was deleted, apparently and so it was removed from the image last month and then two weeks later that duuuurn :-D bot deleted it. Anyway, I gave it the more appropriate Template:Univ-logo template. --Chris S. 07:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Weee thanks. However as for Philippines-Gov images, did the Foundation gave a ruling already? --Howard the Duck 07:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. Where would the ruling be issued? --Chris S. 08:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

It is on the Agenda of the next Board meeting for Wikimedia, which I am not sure will occur. I emailed all of the concerns to User:Danny. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 10:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

free GMA photos

Check where these can be used:

from User:Zscout370 from (Return Fire) and --Pinay (talk•email) 05:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Ehemplo

A friend just shared this with me today, and I maybe the only one that missed this. It may not be for Wikipedia, but it certainly is worth watching as Filipinos. This is what our country needs and is worth reflecting. --Pinay (talk•email) 04:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Did this come from TV? --Howard the Duck 05:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
A former Jesuit just gave me the youtube link. Don't know if this was on TV. --Pinay (talk•email) 06:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Wow that's great! Erap and GMA lol. Sadly, I've never seen this on TV. I don't think this was shown in the major networks, or at least it hasn't been played a huge amount of airtime. And good job on the Eskaya article Pinay! =) Berserkerz Crit 09:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Re Eskaya - Thank you. Please peer review it. Thanks. --Pinay (talk•email) 19:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Is this copyrighted? I don't watch YT vids much, it's sooooo slow... --Howard the Duck 09:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Let me double check with the ex-Jesuit contact. --Pinay (talk•email) 19:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Image uploading

Can some admin check out User:Wowowee 13? S/he's been uploading like crazy, and s/he's tagging them with misleading tags, and he doesn't give his/her sources. Tagging his/her images for deletion is getting tiring. --Howard the Duck 09:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

On a ligher note...

Here's the PB, the pride of Bohol, for your listening pleasure. Enjoy! --Pinay (talk•email) 19:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Featured picture nomination/delisting

Please go and vote! Whether support or oppose. The feedback and constructive criticism will certainly help. (And because these are the only Philippine-related Featured Pictures we have so far. --seav 23:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Belated update. Image:Ph_map_manila.svg is now a featured picture, replacing the older PNG image, and Image:Ph_physical_map.png has been kept from delisting. --seav 17:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Cesar Montano

I need help with "watching" over this page. I have not verified the 2 latest information additions to the page, and would certainly appreciate help in verifying what has been recently added to the article, or if it is not in violation of Wikipedia's policy on Biography of Living persons. Thank you very much. --Pinay (talk•email) 16:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Images with dubious copyright info

User:Bubuyog has uploaded a bunch of pictures taken by various people from PBase and added those images to appropriate Wikipedia articles. Unfortunately, he tagged them all with the Template:attribution attribution template. I'm not so sure the photographers have given their permission for their pictures to be used in this way. --seav 06:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

citation template for deletion

If anyone knows what to use to replace the for deletion template {{references-small}} - please let me know. Or are we supposed to all be using the citation templates now? Advice needed, please. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 18:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Ate P and I were discussing this topic when we stumbled upon this. Current consensus indicates that the {{Reflist}} template is a better alternative, so the {{references-small}} template should be merged with {{Reflist}}.
As of this date, however, the vote is still open, so please provide your feedback to help shape a consensus (whether for or against deletion).
Note: changing from {{references-small}} to {{Reflist}} does not seem to impact the visual appearance of articles, so if you're on the side of deprecating the {{references-small}} template, you can actually change your tags to {{Reflist}} with little effects (if any). --- Tito Pao 20:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Chocolate Hills and Philippine Tarsier

May I ask your input, especially the "matured" & "seasoned" Filipino Wikipedians if puede na i-nominate for GA ang 2 articles. Your input for their improvement is needed. Salamat. --Pinay (talk•email) 11:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

From the minimal scanning, I think these articles are quite good already. A couple of minor sticking points: 1) the description section of Chocolate Hills seems a bit too touristy. 2) Some spelling, grammar, and copyedit corrections are needed. I think you can nominate them already or have them undergo the peer review process. =) --seav 13:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Seav. Both already peer reviewed. See talk page for archived peer reviews. --Pinay (talk•email) 15:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
good articles! One minor remark. While translating Philippine Tarsier to Dutch, I found that it has two sections called "habits". Magalhães 14:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Let me check on that. And thank you. (BTW, long time no hear! how are you?)--Pinay (talk•email) 15:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, indeed. Hmmmm. How did that happen? Well, let me work on that, but really, I want to thank you for noticing that and pointing that out. I really appreciate it. --Pinay (talk•email) 15:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Fixed it! Merged the two sub-sections on Habits to form only one. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 19:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not matured or seasoned (hehe) but I've perused the articles and contributed edits I think are needed. The Philippine Tarsier looks good already structurally and content-wise while the Chocolate Hills still needs a lot of proof reading and editing. I say go with the Tarsier GA nom and while that is going on let's work on the Hills and then nom it after Tarsier passes. =) Berserkerz Crit 13:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for all the work you have done on both articles. It is really appreciated! --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 19:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Searcher007 and the already archived Kristine Bernal AfD

Searcher007 modified the already-closed Kristine Bernal AfD and at the same time cursed Howard. I reverted the edits and added two warnings on this user's talk page: first, for the edit, and second for the NPA. I have not yet, however, reported the edit to an admin because I'm not clear if editing an archived AfD needs admin attention (so please let me know more about this). --- Tito Pao 17:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Better ask an admin at least. Editing an archived AfD, which clearly has "do not edit" on it, is a serious thing. Shrumster 19:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Motion Picture award winning bodies in the Philippines

Let us improve the the articles on award winning bodies in the Philippines. These include a complete database of winners.

--Exec8 01:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC) (modified slightly by --Howard the Duck.)

University Belt

I took a quick look at the user pages of the Tambayan's members and noticed that a good number have studied in one of the colleges at the University Belt. So I created an artice about it. Please feel free to add any information about the district that we've always loved to hate (especially during the rush-hour morning traffic when it's final exams season ;) --- Tito Pao 02:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice start. I like the pic alright. Hey might want to look up Anak (song) by the way, I spruced it little ;). Berserkerz Crit 12:20, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there an official definition of the term "University Belt"? I understood it to also include Intramuros and the Taft Avenue universities and colleges. --seav 16:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
There is none, but several imply that the Sampaloc-Quiapo-San Miguel area is the University Belt, notwithstanding Intramuros and Taft are also "university belts." --Howard the Duck 17:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
The Intramuros also hosts a lot of universities but I don't know with Taft (La Salle and CSB only?). Whatever the inclusion, this article can definitely be expanded to cover other "University Belts". Berserkerz Crit 12:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Taft Avenue (and vicinity) institutions include: De la Salle University-Main , College of St. Benilde, University of the Philippines Manila, St. Scholastica's College, St. Paul College of Manila, Phil. Women's University, Phil. Normal University, Adamson University, Technological University of the Philippines, Emilio Aguinaldo College. So there's many. --seav 02:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps an article on Taft Avenue should be created, there's Malate, Manila already. As far as I'm concerned, the Sampaloc-San Miguel-Quiapo area is The University Belt. --Howard the Duck 03:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Philippine Symbols

Hi guys, I hope somebody would look into Philippine symbols. Most are okay but there are no articles for Cariñosa, Baro't saya, and Livistona rotundifolia (I'll cover this one). The first two are not in my expertise so I leave them up to you. Thanks in advance.--Lenticel 04:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Livistona rotundifolia or anahaw didn't go so well. There's just not enough reliable references out there.Lenticel 05:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

AfD: IMSCF syndrome

IMSCF syndrome is up for deletion. Submit your input, please! --Chris S. 04:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Submitted my comments. AfD aside, I really find this article deplorable. If it is true, it makes me one sad Filipino. Berserkerz Crit 12:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
It's true. Sometimes it includes Hawaiian too. The name of the article may be questionable, but the concepts have been talked about at length in Filipino-American publications. It is probably unknown in the Philippines, though, but it's alive and well in Filipino community in America. There are so many young Filipinos here who have some sort of identity crisis. --Chris S.
PS: Just look at how Filipino Americans describe themselves. Take the Kona Carmack article for instance. Or this Honolulu advertiser article. As I said, it was known as Tia Carrere who conveniently said she was "Hawaiian-Spanish-Chinese" despite being of Filipino descent. There's these MySpace profiles]. I wish I had the time to research articles. Anyway, yes, I agree with you ..nakakalungkot talaga. --Chris S. 01:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Let's face it. We Filipinos are a mixture of different races. That is why our beloved Philippines is called a melting pot. So if I say, I'm of Spanish, Chinese, and Filipino (prolly implying, for example, Aeta) race, what is wrong with that if it were true? None. What's wrong with that if it were false? Also none simply because our motherland is a universally accepted melting pot! There is a big difference between race and nationality. Am I saying about the former? Or am I talking about the latter? What the article was saying was that the non- and un-scientific and non- and unacedemic syndrome results "in a unique form of institutionalized ethnic or ancestral forgery". Obviously the article was talking about race and not nationality. It could exist as a subject matter of another article, prolly on racial crisis or nationality crisis or a bigger article on social crisis. But definitely not as an identity crisis (or worst, as an "institutionalized forgery" - wow talaga namang institutionalized na ang pagiging manloloko ni Juan de la Cruz!) as this obviously opinionated article claims it to be. I voted for its deletion. --Weekeejames 01:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
That most Filipinos being a mixture of different races is a lie. What people are confusing are cultural concepts coupled with a confusion over their last names. I used to be a victim of IMSCF/TCS/whatever. But now I know better. Filipinos from outside the US do not understand this IMSCF concept, but if you've lived here you'd understand. There is so much misinformation among young Filipino Americans - are we Asian? Are we Hispanic? Are we Pacific Islander? Are we Malay? Are we Spanish? What the heck are we? I mean, you yourself just demonstrated that you believe that Filipinos without Spanish & Chinese heritage are Aetas, which is totally untrue.
However, misiniformation is not the only reason that people resort to IMSCF syndrome. For a long time it is about shame. People are ashamed to be Filipinos because of the image of the Philippines to the rest of the world, particularly Americans. In some communities, some Filipinos feel that there is a stigma attached to being who they are. Burying their Filipino heritage in a list of more "noble" ethnicities alleviates this feeling. You've heard of the song Tayo'y mga Pinoy? That song says it all.
So no, it has nothing to do with race or nationality; instead it has to do with ethnicity, their culture. These Fililipino Americans who say that they are SCF have NO CONNECTION whatsover to current Spanish and Chinese culture. Very rare that you will find a Filipino who is really Spanish by ethnicity. That's why it's ridiculous for Filipinos to claim that. I mean, for what purpose? The French don't go around saying they are Celtic and Roman, don't they? They're just French. Why can't Filipinos just be Filipinos? Or why can't Filipino Americans just be Filipino Americans instead of SCF-Americans? --Chris S. 02:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
"That most Filipinos being a mixture of different races is a lie" is another lie. There is no such thing as pure Filipino race. I believe that when some modern day Filipinos say "I am Spanish-Chinese-Filipino", I think they mean to say that they do have Spanish, Chinese, and native or local or whatever you call them blood in them. I did not demonstrate that Filipinos with no Spanish or Chinese blood in them are Aetas. I think the word "Filipino" is just to ambiguous, but I doubt if the word "local" or "native" were sufficient; hence I used the word "Filipino". What I was saying was that the modern day Filipino is indeed and already multi-racial, of multi ethinicity, and multi-cultural. In the US, indeed there are Americans of Mexican descent and they are called Mexican-Americans, Americans of African descent and they are called African-Americans. I don't know why there could be such a brouhaha when I'd say I am Chinese-Mexican-Filipino or Chinese-Mexican-Tagalog/Caviteño-Subanon (to be precise) to say the fact that I do have Chinese blood (my great grandfather at my father's side came to Cavite from Macau by boat) and Mexican blood (my great grandfather at my mom's side was a Mexican merchant from the Manila Galleon who arrived in Zamboanga in the 1800's). It certainly wouldn't make me less Filipino. I can understand the writer's POV on that article, but it just violates wikipedia's policy on NPOV. Prolly that article should be just a subject matter of another bigger subject: Colonial Mentality. --Weekeejames 20:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


I think the problem originates from the term "Filipino" itself. I mean it was manufactured by Filipno nationalists who wants to prove that our culture is a marriage of east and west. That's why we're so confused because before that we were just Bisaya, Tagalogs, Ilocano, etc. and were proud of it. 23prootie 10:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
There is an ambiguity in the word "Filipino". I trace this to a lot of factors, but most importantly, to the different colonizers we've had and Philippines being archipelagic (island visited by different races pre-Spanish period). Now thinking about it, there are two situations where a Filipino would say he/she is Spanish-Chinese-Filipino. One would be if he/she really had Spanish and Chinese blood due to parentage, from a Spanish-Chinese man who married a Filipino woman. When I say Filipino I mean of Malay descent, yellow-skinned, medium height, and australasian in features. Now that would be correct and I would see nothing wrong with a Filipino saying he/she is S-C-F much like Sam Milby would say he is Filipino-American-[insert some other race here where he got his good features].
But when a Filipino would invoke IMSCF to take cover in other ethnicity and hide being a Filipino for fear of discrimination or racism (people who view Filipinos as stupid because of our politics and what not), then I would feel sad for our country and, anger but also pity to the person.
I really don't think IMSCF Syndrome is a phenomenon, even among Fil-Ams abroad, because the Filipino race is really of multi-racial descent (having been fucked by Spaniards, Americans, and Japanese, before them who knows Chinese from the north who traded goods or those from the south coming into Mindanao). Even Filipinos here in the Philippines can't pinpoint what makes them a Filipino genealogically. There are Indian, Chinese, Arab, Korean, and other communities living in the Philippines but they identify themselves as Filipino (those I've known and asked). So it's really hard to say whether someone is dying of shame when he mixes a Filipino heritage with other ethnicities because there is no other qualifier to tell if someone is a Filipino unless he/she hails/comes/was born in the Philippines or have Filipino parents. MAGULO BA? hehehe =) Berserkerz Crit 12:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with most of what you wrote, Berserkerz Crit except for saying that a Filipino is of "Malay descent, yellow-skinned, medium height, and australasian in features". Now that is an old stereotype and is contradictory to the notion of a modern day Filipino who is of multi-racial descent. Perhaps most Filipinos are still Malay-looking, yellow or brown-skinned, of medium height, etc. But that is no longer in general. With millions of Filipinos in diaspora, there are already modern-day Filipinos who no longer look like the old stereotyped Filipinos of yesteryears. Marami na ring Filipino ang hindi na pango ang ilong contrary to that old song. Mas marami na ngayon kesa sa mga old mestizos and mestizas of the olden days. It does not "generally" (unless there is an academic study on this) mean nahihiya sila kung pango ang ilong nila or feeling Amerikano sila. It's just that talagang hindi na pango mga ilong nila! Yung kantang yun actually feeling ko may underlying stereotyping and insecurities. It's ok to be proud (and smart) to be a Filipino; pero wag naman sobra. OA na kasi tapos napag-iiwanan naman tayo ng mga iba sa Asya. :D --Weekeejames 23:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. When I said Filipinos of Malay descent, yellow-skinned, nedium height and flat-nosed, I meant the early Filipinos before the Spaniards came. Yup the modern day Filipino is really of multi-racial descent. America isn't the melting pot of the world, the Philippines is! =D
Yey burado ang non-sense na article na yun! Panalo tayo. :P --Weekeejames 19:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The article will return once verified sources are obtained. Though not right now dahil kulang ako sa panahon ngayon. Perhaps sometime in the near future. --Chris S. 00:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Siguraduhin mo lang ang credibility ng "verified sources" at neutrality ng article. Remember, wikipedia's NPOV is not just about presenting the two sides of the coin. It is also about avoiding and solving quarrels. Kung hindi, ibabasura pa rin namin ang article na yan. --Weekeejames 02:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... This article sure is hot. Mabenta yung sinabi ko dun sa AfD ha. I wanted to post some of my comments in the AfD but I think its better to post it here. Para tayo-tayo lang ba.

First of all, Berserkerz Crit it is quite sad that you found my contributions "laughable". Its kind of... inconvenient to sift through a lot of forums, wiki mirrors and the like to see if there is some third party that acknowledge the term. I know that the term rests on shaky ground. My academic training tells me to delete the article as well because of its references and POV but a social phenomenon is a social phenomenon. Your Delete stance is in a better position and I respect that. Wala lang, pan-tanggal lang ng init ng ulo :) its bad if you are punched in the stomach but not admitting that you are punched is much worse.

If this AfD came two years earlier, I might have been the first to send it to hell, breaking the Caps Lock key along the way. 'P@#%$~ !#$!!! MGA FIL-AM YAN! KANINO BA SILA KAMPI? PORKIT TISOY KALA MO KUNG SINO NA KUNG UMASTA! BAKIT PORKIT SARAT ANG ILONG NATIN AT PANDAK TAYO EH GANYAN NA LANG TURING NILA SA'TIN! MGA G!#@ PALA SILA EH' would be my first ever contribution to Wikipedia. <Sigh> I'm getting older.

Now with that cleared up, I resume my comments. It seems that it is not the notability of the article that is under fire but its implication on us Filipinos. I know it is an ugly facet in our multi-racial identity but it is still a part of us. Being hostile about it will not do us any good.

As for the articles, I did not intend those to be references (it is in the OPINION section for Pete's sake!) but as an evidence that the term exists and acknowledged by some local Filipinos (including the grad student). Social ideas are tricky things to study. You cannot dissect it, you cannot put it in a test tube and you cannot measure it yet they exist. Weird isn't it?

This discussion reminds me of my Sociology 10 class. We were told to describe, in a poster, what a Filipino is. And guess what, nobody described it satisfactorily. It is an idea that has no universal definition, somewhat like the idea of art. So who is the Filipino then? the short fun-loving brown guy? the curly-haired black hunter in search of a wild boar? that pale guy who can't speak a word of Tagalog? the middle-class college student? The WP:TAMBAY editor? The scarred rebel in the mountains fighting for his cause? All of them are Filipinos yet none of them are, think about it. ;)

I agree with 23prootie that the term Filipino does harm and good. We were forced to conglomerate into one big shiny colony and then pushed into nationhood. We did not mature (read: Civil wars, empires etc.) so we tend to be confused, arguing with one another (and killing one another), rallying to some shining but not guiding light (Manny, "Bata" Reyes etc.) and be hostile to anything threatening (Globalization, US forces, IMSCF...). Look, if we don't stop this immaturity we won't last long as a nation or even as a people.

You see Filipinos tend to like, excuse my term, racial hybrids or mestizos. (Note: race, genetically, does not exist so being Filipino is not inherited. So where does is came from?). However, other countries tend to shun them as "hybrids". Praise here might be flattering to them but racial pressure on other countries might threaten their social survival (which might not be as obvious as the physical threats we experience here). For those who are here in Inang Bayan, even if you scoured all web pages with the term "Filipino", stalk every Fil-(race) celebrities, read every newspaper and watched all TV shows 'til your eyes bleed, you still cannot comprehend what expatriate Filipinos feel unless you are one or lived with them. IMSCF might have been a defensive shield that they used to survive. We cannot exactly jump in to defend distressed expatriate Filipino and kick non-Filipino butt. In a nutshell, using IMSCF is a sad but might be a necessary "syndrome" for the survival of other Filipinos.

I'm sorry if my comments are a bit cluttered or just patent nonsense, I'm having persistent cough and fever nowadays and my mind is not like it used to be... ---Lenticel 13:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry Lenticel I wasn't clear in my comment. My comments were not directed at you sifting through forums and sites so you can give the AfD discussion even bits of references mentioning the word. What I found laughable is the IMSCF term itself and the people who represent it. I hope you read this ASAP because I don't want you to misunderstand me.
I'm sorry if it came across you in a bad way, the article just struck a chord with me because I have found my sense of pride and identity as a Filipino. I didn't have the time to clarify specifically what I found laughable. I just typed away furiously. Again, mea culpa.
I agree on you that there is a social phenomenon involving Filipinos and their lack of a strong and clear identity, but the IMSCF Syndrome wouldn't be one of it. For me, the identity crisis Filipinos experience is best describe in the colonial mentality and as you mention, lack of galvanizing history to mature (wars, empires, etc.). I am intrigued by the question What a Filipino is, because for sure anyone I know wouldn't be able to answer satisfactorally. I am at this point in my life trying to find out why Filipinos have progressed backwards, politics and culture into account.
As for the article, I believe a lot of people (including me) voted to Delete because of the lack of notable sources, plus the other violations to the standards of Wikipedia. The implications on Filipinos, whether bad or good, is part and parcel why the AfD discussion is hot and alive. 203.87.186.206 17:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Damn cookies expired on me. Berserkerz Crit 17:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This discussion is really interesting, and I really want to do a long post, but I'm so freakng busy, I have done only a handful of edits the past few months... so let me recycle something I posted almost exactly a year ago:--Nino Gonzales 04:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

After months of monitoring this article, finally, it's been deleted. :) --Jojit fb 00:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Filipino is beyond ethnicity

Diagram 1: Ethnicity and Nationality
Diagram 1: Ethnicity and Nationality

I urge you not to use the term “ethnic Filipino” or to use “Filipino” to mean low-land Austronesian-speaking Filipinos.

In several articles in Wikipedia, the term Filipino is equated with the Tagalog + the Bisaya + the Ilokano + the Kapangpangan + the Bicolano, etc.

I think it is true that the Philippines is composed mostly of these ethnolinguistic groups. However, I think that Filipino should not be defined in terms of ethnicity. I think Filipino is in a totally different level. Please see diagram 1.

Great Filipino thinkers have been very prudent in defining what Filipino is. For instance:

“History has our dates down in black and white, and knows that the Filipino, because he was created in the 16th and 17th centuries by a tool-forged fusion of tribes from Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao; Spanish and Chinese mestizos; etc..” – Nick Joaquin
“The Filipino belongs to a mixture of races, although basically he is a Malay.” – Teodoro Agoncillo

Nick Joaquin’s etcetera and Agoncillo’s mixture clearly shows that Filipino could not be pigeon-holed into a certain ethnicity or a group of ethnicities. Doing so would be like saying blues music is music played with a guitar, drums and keyboards. Blues music couldn’t be defined by the instruments used to play it the same way Filipino could not be defined by the ethnicities of its members!

Phrases like the following should therefore be avoided:

Filipinos comprise 90% of the Philippines.

Or divisions like the following:

People of the Philippines
Filipino
Ilokano
Tagalog
Kapangpangan
Bikolano
Bisaya
Maguindanao
Etc.
Chinese
Spanish
Etc.

Yes, be bold in editing. But defining Filipino in terms of ethnicity is not bold; it is not even POV; it is wrong.

But is that usage verifiable? Wouldn't non-ethnic Filipinos be called Philippine nationals/citizens? --Chris S. 05:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It is very true that the term Filipino is beyond ethnicity. That was why, in the discussion on "IMSCF syndrome", I said it was simply a matter of race and nationality. The Filipino is not one ethnic group. On the article ethnicity, it says: "An ethnic group is a human population whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry". Filipinos can never identify themselves on the basis of common ancestry because of the fact that we are multi-racial. Our different ancestors of different races came from different lands who migrated to and colonized our motherland over several periods of time. I concur with Teodoro Agoncillo that we are a mixture of races. Now when some Filipinos say "I am Spanish Chinese Filipino" they could be saying that they are Filipino (not as an ethnic group for a Filipino is not an ethnic group nor as a race for there is no pure Filipino race) nationals (not necesarily as citizens although it is now possible to have dual citizenship, but they can associate themselves with the Philippines) of Hispanic and Chinese ethnicity (refer to the diagram you posted) of which is true because indeed the Filipino, especially the modern-day one, is multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-cultural. So what that deleted article was trying to present, in a controversial manner, was simply nothing to argue about and sheer non-sense. --Weekeejames 20:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Chris, I don't get your question. If what you mean by usage is Filipino = nationality/citizenship (which is what I'm saying), just take a look at the constitution. That would also mean that "non-ethnic Filipinos," which I take to mean Filipinos of non-Bisaya/Tagalog/Ilocano/etc ancestry, would be a misnomer. If Filipino is to mean something beyond ethnicity, "ethnic Filipino" is quite meaningless, and consequently "non-ethnic Filipino" as well.
But I sort of disagree with what I said last year. There are various usages of Filipino, all of which are, I suppose, valid POVs. Perhaps it depends on where you are standing. Perhaps when you look at the Filipino people from abroad (I guess that's your POV, Chris), the Filipino people might look homogenous, thus consisting of a single ethnicity. Perfectly valid. From the Philippines, where you are zoomed-in to Filipino society, you see the diversity which make up the Philippines. And I think this is the same for any society. Maybe it's like pixelization. If you zoom in enough, a brown object might actually consist of red, yellow, blue, black, orange, etc. Another example is the term "Americano." When someone says Americano, what immediately comes to mind (at least for me, and I suppose for a lot of other Filipinos) is a white guy. You have to put the qualifier negro if you want to talk about Jay-Z. But people living in America might have a more nuanced (or pixelized) visual when they hear the word "American."
I don't think we could stop someone if he wants to use Filipino to mean whatever he wants it to mean, just like we could not stop someone from using the term "dododwadawada" to mean "cool." But I don't think that doesn't belong to Wikipedia. What we could say here is "the Constitution says that..." or "Nick Joaquin opines that...". Otherwise it would be POV.--Nino Gonzales 10:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

From what I gather, the word Filipino as it is overwhelmingly used by people, the media, and academia is in the ethnic sense of the word. Very rarely do I find it to mean people who have foreign ancestry but yet have Philippine citizenship. What I am asking for are reliable sources that use the term in the way that you are proposing. AFAICT, such people would be Philippine nationals or Philippine citizens.

Also, Nino, I learned about the concept of ethnicity and ethnic groups from my courses in anthropology. Among the defining criteria of an ethnic group is descent as well as the members' general view on their "race." To be a Filipino is to be a member of the regional ethnic groups whether it be Tagalog, Bicolano, Tboli, Mangyan, what have you and not someone born to Korean. Many American missionaries have had children born in the Philippines; their children speak a Philippine language and are versed in the culture. They can be considered Filipino. But to many Filipinos this isn't the case; this child will always be Kano or a "Joe" to them. While your views are laudable, they are not verifiable yet.

To Weekeejames: What were Agoncillo's sources? From what I've read, only a small percentage of Filipinos have Spanish and Chinese blood. I've done genealogical research in 19th century church records for places in Cebu, Batangas, Manila, Rizal, and Bicol. The ethnic group of the children and his parents (and grandparents) are mentioned on the baptismal certificate. It is almost always indio. Very rarely will you see mestizo or criollo or filipino (Spaniards born in the Philippines) or sangley (Chinese). Filipinos are either indoctrinated into thinking that Filipinos are a mixture of Spanish and Chinese or they are confusing cultural influence and descent. Filipino Americans resort to IMSCF syndrome because they are ashamed.

So yes, Filipino is very much an ethnicity. Just think of it as Hispanic. Hispanic encompasses Mexicans, Chileans, Argentineans, Uruguayans, Spaniards, Puerto Ricans, etc. On the other hand, Filipino encompasses Tagalog, Visayan, Igorot, etc.--Chris S. 04:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea as to what Agoncillo's sources were. I suspect his statement was his own POV to which I somewhat agree. As a modern-day Filipino, I should no longer look at the term in a narrow way within the ethnicity concept. This old sterotyping of a Filipino as a group of people from and of different ethnic groups has not only caused so much divisiveness, ignorance, and confusion that is almost always alleged to be a kind of "shame" especially on the part of our modern-day heroes - overseas Filipinos and of which has never been proven to be true. But yes, each of us is entitled to our own POV - whether you look at the term "Filipino" zooming in to the different groups of Samals, Bicolanos, Mangyans, Aetas, etc. or zooming out to a broader picture to mean that it is not only about nationality and/or citizenship, but more importantly about a modern-day group of people who are multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-cultural. Today, the term Filipino is very broad that is not a shame (and should never be) to say I am a Spanish-Chinese Filipino even if I don't have any Spanish or Chinese blood in my system. --Weekeejames 00:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Why can't we just be Filipinos? I don't know, but I think you're the exception rather than the rule since your experience, as a Filipino in Australia, is different. Come to America and see what it's like. You'll see what I mean. --Chris S. 01:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Chris, I'm currently in American Samoa where the Samoan term "afakasi" to mean "half-caus" is common, widely accepted, and never considered to be a shame by 100% Samoans. Been in America of course, seen that, and done that. Yes we can be Filipinos in anyway we look at the term. In defense of some Fil-Ams who "can" be mistaken to be ashamed of being Filipinos, I truly believe that they are only looking at the bigger picture in their own rightful POV. It is not a reason to degrade them down as shameful Filipinos or else we're just degrading ourselves down as Filipinos who are ashamed of our own identity. Gladly, here in American Samoa, we Filipinos are just Filipinos. --Weekeejames 01:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Elections in the Philippines

I've opened a discussion if whether or not local and barangay elections should be added at the main elections page. --Howard the Duck 16:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

PCIJ is using our locator maps

See this PCIJ blog entry on Eastern Samar. Is this infringing? Is it fair use? I think I mentioned before that they used another image from Wikipedia without attribution. --seav 20:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I have the feeling that all those people and organizations and tv networks who use wikipedia locator maps or artworks, for that matter, think that it is free and fair to use them simply because wikipedia is a free encyclopedia! :D --Weekeejames 02:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the pic itself is free under the GNUFDL. All GNUFDL says is that the GNUFDL must be applied to any copies/derivative works as well, making sure that everything remains free. Shrumster 20:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Persistent anon

An anon with the IP address 125.60.243.22 has persistently been vandalizing school articles by removing information. At first this anon vandalized the De La Salle University-Dasmariñas article numerous times, now it's vandalizing the University of the Philippines, Los Baños article by continuously removing properly referenced information from the article. The anon doesn't respond or react to warnings placed on its talkpage, making it problematic. Hope that some action would be brought upon this anon vandal. --Mithril Cloud 01:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I second the motion. Thanks, Mithril Cloud. -- Corsarius 12:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

North Luzon Super Region?

So Ferandre (talk) has been going around various provincial articles and slapping North Luzon Super Region onto them. Is this something we want? --Chris S. 03:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Better block that person and the articles posted are merely fictional. Yes its true that there was a Northern Luzon Super Region but not to the fact its going to be a federal state like that person want to imply. --Exec8 13:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
The whole article's a joke and fictional. Since I don't think it will pass at AFD, paring it down will do. And mentioning the bare essentials (what PGMA said on her SONA, and what places comprise North Luzon Agribusiness Quadrangle (the article name is even wrong, lol) would do for the meantime. --Howard the Duck 14:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Guess what? We now have practically redundant articles for The Ilocano Diaspora and the North Luzon Super Region and The Ilocano Language and Literature and the North Luzon Super Region. --Howard the Duck 16:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I will speedy delete the article under the first criteria, hoaxes. I am thinking the others can be simply redirected. To the Ilokano articles. --Chris S. 19:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Filipino people -> Filipino (identity)

Just saying that the article has been moved to its new name without discussion (won't really intervene since demographics isn't my forte). --Howard the Duck 14:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's been reverted. I don't understand the reasoning behind as to why it was moved. --Chris S. 19:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Same here...explanation please! --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 20:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Reply: Actually it was a (immature) protest on the revisions on the Malay people article but since there is already a Malay race article, I'm withrawing my protest.--23prootie 23:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Bakit Labis Kitang Minahal

There is a new AfD up for the article Bakit Labis Kitang Minahal which, despite several warnings, still does not have the proper sources. Please feel free to participate in the discussion; I myself cannot verify the truthfulness of the article, even on ABS-CBN's website, but I may be wrong about this. As an aside, please be warned that one of the editors of this article, User:Wowowee 13 (talk) , has removed the AfD instead of adding the needed sources; just to be sure, I've added a warning on his user page for this template deletion. --- Tito Pao 12:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality of Super Twins article

Kindly check the neutrality of this article especially the Controversy section... I think that the editors of this article are taking a cheap shot against GMA. Also, I've noticed that the references of this article links to blogs of the editors. -Danngarcia 16:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Blogs are a no-no...I will be deleting all of the blog links shortly. I'll take the hit for this, but I don't care. --- Tito Pao 17:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Done! --- Tito Pao 17:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
The entire controversy section reeks of original research and should be stricken from the record. While I do find it amusing, that's the sort of stuff that belongs on a webpage and not wikipedia. Anyone care to do the honors? Shrumster 20:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Speedy delete

Can an admin speedy delete Primetime Bida? I've tagged it since yesterday and no admin has acted on it. --Howard the Duck 10:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

It's already speedied, courtesy of Lectonar :) --- Tito Pao 20:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Subic Rape Case

I believe that this article can be expanded, maintained and improved to be a feature article on the main page. Please help contribute. Thank you. --Weekeejames 11:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

GMA Network's upcoming programs

I've just added "unreferenced" tags to shows that does not have proper citations and "someone" keeps on reverting my edits on this article's Upcoming Shows section... He/she keeps on adding shows that are not yet been publicly announced by GMA... please help me... -Danngarcia 12:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I made reverts and added user warnings. I suggest that you take a look at the user warnings so that you can add warnings as necessary, so that these users will know why their edits were reverted. Just let me know if you need more help =) --- Tito Pao 13:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I WILL run out of 3RR as I had to re-revert this page when another anon undid my revert. I'll give as many warnings and explanations as needed, but in the meantime I won't do another revert until tomorrow =( --- Tito Pao 16:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for helping! BTW, can we request to semi-protect the page so that anon users will not able to revert the changes? -Danngarcia 16:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Not sure if that's possible, but if an admin will allow it, then we can take the chance to improve the page---by finding all the references we need, and by cleaning up the page and removing the unsourced/dubious future show titles. --- Tito Pao 16:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
This is crazy. Guess what? It's un-reverted again...this time, by a different anon user. Methinks there is a cabal or a brigade from the Kapuso forums who still insists on keeping the disallowed links, despite WP:EL. I won't revert for now, but I'll post a warning.--- Tito Pao 21:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
It also looks like most of the reverts were made from different IP of the same provider...I've performed WHOIS lookups of these addresses and found out that they are all AOL IP addresses from the same location (reported as from London). Maybe that could give us a clue on how to best handle this case? --- Tito Pao 21:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I've re-reverted the page again and I requested for the semi-protection on it's talk page... Hopefully it will be approved... -Danngarcia 07:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

This has been a problem on the Kapamilya side, too. I've been tagging unneeded pics like hell already. To have a quicker assessment, head on to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. --Howard the Duck 08:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be protected now...on with the clean-ups :) --- Tito Pao 17:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia and users who are minors

Hello! I'm not sure if this issue has been brought up on the Tambayan before, but at any rate I'll share this information. The ArbCom has an interesting case (actually, more of a resolution to a debate) about users who happen to be minors. In particular, the issue was about protecting children's privacy. The case closed last December, so you may want to read the ruling made by the ArbCom on this issue. If you know someone young in your family who also happens to have a Wikipedia account, you may also want to remind them about not disclosing too much personal information on their user page, for their own protection :) --- Tito Pao 20:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the information Titopao. The discussions on the ruling are indeed very enlightening. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 07:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
This seems quite interesting...I am aware of four minors, including myself, who identify/have identified themselves as part of the Tambayan (and others who don't), and this has not emerged as a problem so far for us. Although if the policy is made retroactive (I joined more than a year and a half before this became a problem), there goes suspicion. If suspicion is exercised with care, it shouldn't be a problem. --Sky Harbor 13:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
From what I understand, the decision was made with the US' COPPA law in mind, among other things (COPPA was mentioned in one of the rulings). This would mean, then, that the ArbCom has 13 year olds and under in mind --- although, of course, in other jurisdictions (such as the Philippines, where no similar law exists), the age bracket would understandably have been different. Also note that a proposed policy was created out of this ArbCom decision, but it has yet to gain official policy status (the debates in the talk page are much more interesting, though). --- Tito Pao 14:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Pretty much, the main goal of the CHILD policy suggestion is to prevent the indentification of minors under the COPPA statutes. While we are not legally supposed to follow it, there have been times where I needed to delete information about under < 13 people that told people what school they went to, their schedules and that was way, way too much personal information. If the userpage is like "I am John and I am 12" and that is it, I usually will not bother with it. But if you name your school or name the street you live on, I will usually deal with that. No one is being banned for their age, but what usually happens is that the information is oversighted using WP:RFO and warnings are issued. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 16:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

template for Philippine-related articles

Do we have a template like this one? Not that I mean to gaya-gaya them, but I think we should have one to help improve Philippine-related articles and association with Tambayan. I actually saw this template at the Spratley Islands article that I found to be far from being neutral and mostly favorable to Chinese POV. Since Spratly Islands refer to the international or more specifically, Malaysian and Indonesian name on this chain of islands, while others claimants have their own name, I think we ought to have a Freedom Archipelago (our name to this island group) article focusing more about the islands and only about the Philippine claim (The Philippines is not claiming the entire Spratly Island group, but a part of it known as - Kalayaan island group) while strictly adhering to wikipedia's NPOV policy. --Weekeejames 23:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

We already have a Wikiproject talk page header (although the tambayan isn't a Wikiproject). Its Wikipedia:WikiProject Philippines/notice. --Howard the Duck 08:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
That notice though I believe is quite redundant with {{Philippines collaboration}}, which can be rewritten to meet our needs. --Sky Harbor 09:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Nobody (ok, very, very few talk pages) uses either of them, anyway. --Howard the Duck 09:25, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Conceded, but then again, that's the point of using the template, right? --Sky Harbor 11:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
If you'd ask me, either will do, but the newer template has more functions (displaying if FA, GA, importance, etc.). --Howard the Duck 11:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
It's about the need to improve all Philippine-related articles and associating them with Tambayan and not just articles to improve for feature status. We have been improving articles only for feature status when we should strive to improve all Philippine-related articles. Parang interested lang ata tayo sa recognition and seems like its not about improving everything that is Philippine-related (this is just an assumption). Isn't it time to change this kind of attitude? --Weekeejames 12:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I was planning months ago to tag every talk page I see with the new notice but I got lazy and there's no beneficial reason for me to do so. Also, promoting this place is beneficial since there would be cooperation on improving Philippine-related articles. Everytime a spot a newb, I'll include a link to WP:PINOY on the welcome message. --Howard the Duck 12:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

New user talk page warnings

I'm not sure how many of the tambays here are fond of using the user talk page warning templates (I use these a lot), but at any rate, here's a heads up: some of the templates have changed drastically, and instead of having about four to seven different levels of warnings, there are now only four for each class of offense, with the fourth being the final warning (i.e. the next offense should lead to a block).

Please be aware, too, that some of the template names and the transcluded texts have changed a lot, as do the look and feel. (The old templates, though, still seem to work). --- Tito Pao 13:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Charter Change

User:DanteTagle (Talk) accused me of vandalism (lol) when I shortened the section titles, etc. Also, I suspect he's from the pro-Cha-Cha camp, since his contribs are biased. I'll be running of 3TT (for shortening section titles?!), so if anyone can revert, thanks. --Howard the Duck 07:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I've added warning to User:DanteTagle's talk page and also to the anonymous IP address's talk page, since the edits from these two editors were committed in a short space of time and since the same tone of language was on the edit summary. I'll be watching this article, too. Pakiramdaman lang if this somewhat-irate editor repeats the same act and one of us might run out of 3RRs :) --- Tito Pao 14:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I will be standing by. I will just be a buzz or a ting away...--Ate Pinay (talk•email) 15:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I rewrote the article on charter change inserted in the 13th_Congress_of_the_Philippines, I tried to make it as unbiased as possible. Scorpion prinz 14:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

is there any UST alumni or student in the house?

I need help with citations from UST files for Arnold Zamora. Please message me in my talk page or via email. Thank you! --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 16:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

There's Howard the Duck and a ffew others. :) TheCoffee 02:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the info. I need a check on yearbooks, newsletters, other references on Fr. Arnold Zamora, specifically his involvement with the Logos Choir, Psalterion Choir, UST Senate circa 1981 - 1984, etc. If anyone can help, that will be very much appreciated. Please post citation directly in the article or message me. Thank you. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 05:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Chorus Paulinus

I also need help with more third party feedback for this. See Talk:Chorus Paulinus for details. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 19:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)