User talk:Tamas

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[edit] Welcome to the Wikipedia

Here are some links I find useful


Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Cheers, Sam [Spade] 21:17, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Odessa

I find the following statement in the article a bit naive and problematic:

In fact, more than 50% of Soviet/modern Russian musicians, composers, producers, etc. are Jews and Ukrainians born in Odessa and other Ukraine's cities.

I mean: has there ever been such a count made? Is there somewhere a list of "Soviet/modern Russian musicians, composers, producers, etc."? The words "in fact" and the number 50% give the impression that this is some scientific fact, but it is more likely just a personal impression and thus very POV. Moreover, this statement is more about Ukraine as a whole than Odessa itself.--Tamas 10:05, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

OK, I got your point, Tamas. Let's reshape the phrase retaining its sense. Would you like to do it? As for a count, it is problematic, but in political sense. I just can't be mistaken, seeing characteristic faces and hearing specific Ukrainian and/or Jewish pronounciation, reading the typical lastnames etc. But all these people may be officially recorded as Russians. So this is a big ethnopolitical problem, and I agree with your NPOV appeal. AlexPU
I think anything like 'a huge number' or something would do.

E.g.: A huge number of Soviet/modern Russian musicians, composers, producers, etc. are Jews and Ukrainians born in Odessa and other Ukraine's cities. Or something like that.

[edit] Hungarian versions of place names in articles pertaining to Romania

Hi! There is a bit of a controversy evolving about the Hungarian versions of place names in articles pertaining to Romania. Criztu has started to delete the Hungarian (and in one case, German) variants of place names from the following articles, claiming that they were irrelevant: (Harghita, Covasna_(county), Cluj). I feel this move is unjustified. I would appreciate if you could have a look at the problem and give your opinion on Talk:Harghita.--Tamas 28 June 2005 15:15 (UTC)

  • I'm with you on this, but I'm at work now and don't have time to engage the individual issues. Please feel free to quote me: besides the fact that the Hungarian-language names in these areas still have quite a bit of currency among the local population, anyone looking at materials predating the incorporation of Transylvania into Romania is going to encounter these place names without Romanian equivalents, and needs to be able to look them up. Not only should all of these names be mentioned in the appropriate articles, they should be redirects wherever appropriate. For some geographic terms -- e.g. Székelyföld -- I have no idea what the Romanian would even be, and I say this as an English-speaker who reads a reasonable amount of Romanian and virtually no Hungarian. For Transylvania Romanian names should almost always be given first, but Hungarian and German names that have even historical importance should typically be included parenthetically on first mention, especially for places that are not famous. Which is to say that not every mention of Sibiu necessarily needs to say, parenthetically, "Hermannstadt", but for smaller towns most people won't know, these are an aid to the English-language reader. -- Jmabel | Talk June 28, 2005 16:31 (UTC)

[edit] Avoiding paranoids

I really don't know if it was of any use the time I invested in engaging discussions with paranoid people. Probably they are the most dangerous and difficult to avoid. Straightforward vandals are easy to detect and avoid, but such people with twisted minds are really a trap. I think it's really time that the community found ways to track down and deal with such people. I don't know how efficient would be to help them get to "better ways", because many of them live in their small world and have a difficulty to open their minds. And they are never clearly destructive and sometimes - rarely - can even do useful things; that's where all the trouble is. Having said that, I really admire the wikipedian attitude to be always positive towards people and never defensive. I'd really be the last to vote for a repressive solution. Some time ago I found an interesting guy, who got fed up and wrote some good points: User:172. Some of his friends also wrote interesting reactions on his talk page. I don't share all his points, especially his skepticism. Remaining anonymous was also a questionable attitude in my opinion. The more open you are and you can accept yourself, the stronger your position. Akiss 28 June 2005 22:38 (UTC)

[edit] official site

lol Tamas, that www.covasna.tk will certainly dissapear(migrate to another.domain) someday, the www.covasna.ro will last as long as .ro domains will last, as it is official. but i understand your fears that i might have an agenda about "former hungarian now romanian" places -- Criztu 29 June 2005 20:23 (UTC)


Well, then we will locate it again and give the right link :) I have really no problem with www.covasna.ro, other than that it is the site of the county, and not the town. Admittedly, it contains a link on its first page to the official page of the town. That's why in my last edit, I added a direct link to the official page of the town. And I put it in the first place: I mean, that's the killer link: it's both official and about the town at the same time :) And it has a big .ro tag at the end too :)

By the way, I don't think you have an agenda, I only think that some unregistered pro-Hungarian guys who do have an agenda had made you a bit nervous with their edits recently so you are a bit more suspicious than necessary and sense an irredentist agenda even at places where there is none. But actually I'm quite paranoid myself, only the other way round, and I always sense attempts to marginalize the role of Hungarian culture in the past and present of Transylvania. But I really try to calm down, and I am improving. (Well, at least I hope so.)--Tamas 29 June 2005 20:56 (UTC)

Thanks Tamas, you are teaching me lessons of attitude. Hope your positive behavior will give its fruits. Still, one thing that is never enough stressed; knowledge must never disappear. Wikipedia is such a wonderful tool to preserve it. It must not be forgotten that people - of all kinds - often have the tendency to pass knowledge that doesn't suit them under silence. Either dismissing it as never having enough evidence or by finding reasons to always invoke the wrong context. Searching for the quick compromise is not always the best solution. On the matter, I admit I have some personal feelings and experience, too. Two years ago I travelled to Transylvania to dig up my family tree. Guess what I bumped into on most of the threads? Public archives - church registries and treasuries mainly - were invested by romanian authorities some time after WWII, and they burned every document dating before 1900. I found that a crime, much worse than the personal tragedies and injustices they inflicted to so many innocent people. Besides, I found some recits of such dramas that are hard to imagine for the 20th century. That are even more shocking if you hear them directly from the persons who lived it. Akiss 30 June 2005 04:18 (UTC)
This burning of archives is horrifying. Like all acts which are meant to destroy history. Actually, what drove me crazy when I went to Transylvania was the effort to marginalize the objective signs of the Hungarian and German presence in Transylvania. Like what Funar was doing in Cluj with the King Mathias statue. Or that an orthodox church is being built in even the smallest 99% Szekler village in order to prove that that village was "originally" Romanian. Falsifying history is really one of the most disgusting things. The trouble is that this practice is more widespread than one would think. In the last decades before 1920, many village names in Transylvania were changed so as to hide its Romanian origins. So for instance Kisoláhfalu (literally little Romanian village) was renamed Kápolnásfalu (a neutral name). And what happened after 1920: even more villages were renamed in order to hide their Hungarian origins. So the politics of nationalism has always been ruthless. And when nationalism is coupled with communism: well, that's even worse.--Tamas 30 June 2005 09:32 (UTC)

[edit] ethnic composition of Targu Mures

Tamas, i hope you are a people of good faith. You underlined that the ethnic percentages changed in Tg Mures after the industrialization took place. Now, your note about this addition was "to make the article more balanced". I think you are sincere, and consider the hungarians in RO some sort of victims of RO. But, when it comes to "ethnic percentage of a city in former Hungary that is now in ROmania" you should know couple of things, so that you won't live in error:

-ROmanians in Transylvania were denied rights cuz they were Orthodox and ROmanians, until the WW II, when Transylvania united with Romania. Not alowed to dwell in the cities of Transylvania, not allowed to own land, reduced to the state of serfs.

Keep this info in mind when you'll make further edits in which you'll "balance" articles of ROmanian cities with references to the "ethnic hungarian predominance" in the cities from Transylvania before the union of Transylvania with ROmania. -- Criztu 30 June 2005 18:37 (UTC)

Sorry if my edit was too harsh. And I do know that Romanians war in many ways second class citizens in pre-1920 Transylvania. I hope this fact is mentioned in the Transylvania article.
But it is still a fact that the ethnic composition was changed as a result of the industrialization. And it is also a fact that cities were predominantly Hungarian or German. That's a fact. What's wrong with adding this fact? I mean, just because Hungarians mistreated Romanians for centuries, should we be silent about the oppression and marginalization of Hungarians in the communist area? I think we should write about both.--Tamas 30 June 2005 21:51 (UTC)
Sorry again, Criz, I just realized this fact was already there, at the end of a paragraph further above.--Tamas 30 June 2005 22:06 (UTC)

[edit] 86.105.71.34

I noticed that you have been dealing with 86.105.71.34 also. You might want to take a look at his changes to Economy of Hungary as well. Olessi 18:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. --Tamas 19:18, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Szia! Szerintem ideje lenne kitiltatni ezt a román vandát. -nagytibi ! ? 23:02, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Egyetértek, csak nem tudom, hogy megy ez. (I agree, I just don't know how this whole process works.)--Tamas 11:49, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

See his usertalk page: I have left the first warning. If he edits after that and shows he ignored it he should get the second warning (called {{test4}}, or the more specific test4-n|articlename). If he choses to ignore it then the matter should be forwarded to Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism or any of the methods described in Wikipedia:Resolving disputes (but if he ignores the polite warnings this may be unnecessary). --grin ✎ 10:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RfC against 86.105.71.34

Hi Tamas,

I'm putting together an RfC against anonymous user 86.105.71.34, who I think has engaged in several types of misconducts on Wikipedia, especially on Transylvania, Romania, Republic of Moldova, Romanian language. I'm writing to you because you attempted to solve one or more of those issues on the user's talk page. If you endorse this RfC, or have anything to add to the statement of dispute, please sign and share your comments at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/86.105.71.34. Thanks, IulianU 00:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Tamas, could you weigh in at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment/86.105.71.34#How_to_proceed? -- Jmabel | Talk 18:43, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the map. Very good one. By the way, you can help me in one thing: I just saw an error in this article: Administrative_divisions_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary#1849-1860. This is the error:

It should say:

I do not know Hungarian word for "and", so, can you correct this? Also, the proper Hungarian name for "Banatus Temesiensis" would be a "Temesi Bansag". Am I correct? PANONIAN (talk) 22:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

"And" is "és". Banatus Temesiensis is indeed "Temesi Bánság" in Hungarian. "Banatus Temesiensis" is a useful term because it's neutral as it is in Latin. "Tamiš Banat" sounds a bit pro-Serbian to me. I mean, you could just as well use the German, Hungarian or Romanian name. But it's sort of OK with me. What about

Vojvodina of Serbia and Banatus Temesiensis (Szerb vajdaság és Temesi bánság) ? --Tamas 23:25, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok, done. Seems that I did not saw the name "temesi bánság" in the sentence I quoted, so I tried to recall this name from my memory. :) PANONIAN (talk) 00:47, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Help with AfD

Tamas, there is currenty an AfD that we really need a native Hungarian to help with. Would you mind? Jean-Pierre_Ady_Fenyo (AfD Discussion). He claims that his verifiability is in Hungarian print, especially in Budapest. We would appreciate your opinions on the matter. --Michael (talk) 23:35, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Thank you very much for providing your comments. They are very valuable. --Michael (talk) 08:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hungarian minority

You must provide a source for such a statement. Any source is fine - the ethnic Romanians is also fine...though I dont see a particular need.. freestylefrappe 20:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] is region not land

Tamas it seems to me that you are trying to make a point. It is region not land. There is a difference and that's why I just accentuated the correct one. Bonaparte talk 21:46, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

No, I am simply translating a compound word from one language into another language. Székelyföld is a region, but the correct translation of the word Székelyföld is Szeklerland. Believe me, I am a native speaker of Hungarian. You cannot change the name of places like this. It is like saying Newfoundland should be called Newfoundisland, because it is an island.--Tamas 22:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Romanianization

Hi Tamas. I don't know if you were watching the page. I made some minor corrections (I don't thibk you'll find they go against the spirit of the article in any way). Tell me what you think.Dahn 11:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, most Jews in Transylvania did indeed consider themselves Hungarian. (From the 1880 onwards, most Jews in Hungary embraced the culture of the majority, which was Hungarian. (see also Magyarization) After 1920, those in Transylvania found themselves in Romania, but by then, most of them were assimilated into Hungarian culture. It is a sad irony and a shame for Hungary that in 1944, it was the Hungarian authorities who put most of them on the train to Auschwitz.)
As far as the Germans are concerned, fleeing is indeed to harsh: most of them emigrated for economic reasons.--Tamas 22:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The medieval Székely society

Could you please have a look at the new paragraph I wrote in hu:Székelyföld. If there are no objections I will translate it into English, too. --KIDB 08:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but it seems OK to me.--Tamas 13:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Wikipedians in Hungary

Hi, if you wish, you can add yourself to the above category. Adam78 22:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raffay

Szervusz Tamás! Nem hiszem, hogy jó az, ha nekiállunk címkézni. Az a Raffay által írt könyv amelyből idéztem, teljes mérétkben korrekt és ellenőrizhető adatokat ad, ám ha neked rendelkezésedre áll Romsics könyve, akkor idézz te belőle. Erdelyiek 17:40, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Majd igyekszem. Nem állítom, hogy inkorrekt a könyve, csak azt, hogy ő mint politikai szereplő vitatott személyiség, ezért ha lehet, jobb ha mást idézel.--Tamas 18:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] German Wikipedians' noticeboard

Hello, Tamas! As someone who can speak some German, you might be interested to know a noticeboard has been established to better aid discussion of articles concerning German-related topics. Feel free to participate with the project if you are interested! Olessi 03:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. At present I'm on a semi-official Wikidiet, but hopefully I'll get back to work some time.--Tamas 21:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Magyarization

Could you please take a look at my edits in Magyarization, I'd apreciate your comments. Dmaftei 20:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Contract bridge

Hi. You might be interested in participating in new Wikipedia:WikiProject Contract bridge. Regards, Duja 10:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1956 revolution

Szia Tamas! I wanted to inform you that the article on the 1956 Hungarian Revolution is up on the Article Creation and Improvement Drive (shortcut: WP:AID) in the hopes we can get it all cleaned up and ready to be the featured article on Oct. 23, the 50th anniversary of the uprising. The thing is, it needs votes. Would you mind voting and helping us out? :) (I'm just sitting here randomly messaging all the Hungarians I can find on here, hopefully will strike a nerve with someone!) Hajrá Magyarország! :) K. Lastochka 00:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Backpacking

Hello, I noticed you seem to like Backpacking and was wondering if you'd be interested in WikiProject Backpacking, a new project geared towards improving backpacking related articles on Wikipedia. If you'd like to join, show support by signing your name at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Backpacking and by helping to edit our beta project page at User:Leif902/WikiProject Backpacking. Thank you, and have a nice day! -Leif902 00:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)