Talk:Taliesin

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Llywrch - you're right, it's five. Pachiaammos 10 May 07:50

You had me worried there, so I checked my copy of the HB. And figured that I better list all of them to avoid an edit war. -- llywrch

Owain - I'm surprised you're disputing a point that can be verified on any decent map of Wales. The Gwent/Glamorgan border runs well to the west of the Usk, along the hills above the Sirhowy. Pachiaammos 10 May 07:50

I'm staying out of this one. Unfortunately, the closest I've ever been to Wales was Gloucester about 20 years ago, & I'm not going to offer an opinion over something I clearly know nothing about. -- llywrch 03:04, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Corn 2 Tegid Veol 3 Gwion Bach 4 Modern Fiction 5 Pronunciation! 6 Floruit and categories

[edit] Corn

This page links to the disambiguation page Corn, but I'm not sure which sense is intended. Can you help? Thanks. — Pekinensis 21:31, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Since this portion of the article was written in Britain, I'm certain "corn" is not meant in the sense of "maize" -- but it'd require some further research to determine which cereal was intended here (e.g., what is mostly likely the meaning of the Welsh word here?) -- llywrch 18:27, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tegid Veol

I propose that this lonely stub get merged into Taliesin and a redirect created. Ifnord 15:39, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

About the time this proposal was, um, proposed, that article was merged into Ceridwen. I think it makes more sense there. I thought I'd mention it so no one goes looking to fix it (like I did). -- Straif 21:24, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gwion Bach

As Gwion Bach is a stub, and at best it will always be a subset of this article, I would like to suggest that it be merged and replaced with a redirect. Before I formally propose it (Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages), I'd like to get a second opinion. -- Straif 20:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I redirected it (the info was mostly redundant). Thanks for pointing that out.--Cuchullain 23:41, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Modern Fiction

I'm sure there are dozens of books that have a bard, druid, or wizard named Taliesin. Since including them all would be prohibitive, what would the criteria be for inclusion? While the MZB and Lawhead books are popular, do their versions of Taliesin have much to do with either the historical figure or the character from Hanes Taliesin (besides the name and occupation)? I read the Mists of Avalon long ago, and haven't read Lawhead at all, so I'm probably not the best person to answer that question. I see the value in keeping the Modern Fiction section, but I'm not sure if it adds value or not. Regardless, it needs to be cleaned up. If I get a chance I can try, but someone that has read the books might do a better job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Straif (talk • contribs)

I'm usually against these kinds of sections in articles, they tend to populate themselves with irrelevant material. When I'm trimming them back, I usually try to make sure the work in question is actually about the article's subject, that the subject is the primary focus of the work, or at least very prominantly featured, and that the work itself is notable enough to merit inclusion. I make exceptions for the more prominant works (prominant as in Tennyson or the Once and Future King, that is, not just prominant in the fantasy genre).--Cúchullain t c 22:21, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that Taliesen is a popular character to include in a lot of fantasy novels. I can think of at least three books offhand where Taliesen plays a major role, but most of these take great liberties with Taliesen's supposed background. If I had read this discussion page first, I might have been better able to make my case for the inclusion of the Fionavar Tapestry, but it may be just as well that I didn't. (The fact that the books are eventually revealed to be a new retelling of the Arthurian Legends is actually considered to be a major plot spoiler, so I had left that out. I wouldn't feel comfortable reinserting the book with a spoiler attached to it.) That being said, having read some of the books in the current list, I'd suggest removing this section completely or changing its purpose so that it merely discusses the fact that Taliesen does appear frequently in the fantasy genre. -- Maura Dailey

Is Deep Purple's album 'Book of Taliesyn' meant to use any of the real 'book of Taliesin'? is that album 'large' enough to be mentioned?

From what I can remember -- generally one can trust that -- MZB's Taliesin was known to be the greatest bard over Brittain, long before King Arthur was borne. He would be also a Druid Priest, since according to her story all Druid Priest learned first of all the arts of the bards. Taliesin appears in MoA as well as in The Lady of Avalon third part. He's said to be Igraine's and Morgause's father, although he would have done that while under the posession of the Horned God, therefore, not being able to claim his fatherhood -- and is also said no one could claim to the be father of a child mothered by the Lady of the Lake. In her legend, Taliesin would be Arthur's (and Morgaine's) grandfather, if he were actually Igraine's father. According to her legend, Taliesin isn't Merlin, Merlin being not a title for the Archdruid, but an ancient wise spirit that a Druid Priest could invite to share his body in moments of great help. Taliesin's and Merlin's would have known each other from previous life's, portraied in The Fall of Atlantis and Ancestor's of Avalon (that was actually written by Diane L. Paxon), Merlin would be an young kid in the first book, named Chedan and later, when becaming a wise old man -- in Ancestor's -- he would come to Brittain with the people that managed to flee from the Alantis islands, being named Merlin by the local British people. Taliesin, on the other hand, was probably an old Priest featured in Fall of Atlantis, whose name was Rajasta. Therefore, one can say that her Taliesin isn't that all far from the historical one -- also, isn't totally loyal to the actual man either. User:Diana Prallon

[edit] Pronunciation!

I should like to see an explanation - using IPA - of how the name Taliesin is pronounced in Welsh. Many other pages with non-English names (and some with English ones too!) include a pronunciation guide and I think this should have one as well. Nothingbutmeat 08:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Floruit and categories

I'd love to know where this comes from - "Taliesin (c. 534 – c. 599)". All that most scholars will venture, based on what little we know, is that he lived in the second half of the 6th century. To make matters worse he was categoried in "534 births" and "599 deaths" - truly astounding news to anyone familiar with the subject! It's a great pity that the category "sub-Roman writers" was created as well. Neither he nor Aneirin or any other poet from that period were writers - the bardic tradition was oral and poetry was composed in the head (same goes for most of the Middle Ages as well). Oh, and he was definitely not "from Monmouthshire" either (which wasn't created till nearly a millenium after him anyway... ). Please be more careful with these categories and dates. Enaidmawr (talk) 00:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)