Talk:Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World

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Contents

[edit] Scans Indicating a Possible NA Release

From March 2008 issue of Nintendo Power. Don't beleive me? Check the Link. It may be a forum, but you may have to scroll down to see the cover.AmericanAtl (talk) 00:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC) http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=300594&page=7

We know: this article has already been altered accordingly. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 02:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Collete added to Official Site, Questionable Characters

Ok so Collete has been added to the main site, and thus we should add her to the charater list, but so had some other characters that has not been confirmed playable, my question to you now is should we add the characters that are not playable.WanderingHero (talk) 20:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Character information

Ok I'm starting to see some character information that is true, and some that isn't and I think we should cite where we found the info because then we can't tell what is true and what isn't.

Right now we have "Emil lost his parents in the blood purging of Palmacosta. An honest, somewhat naïve boy, Emil is a bit of a coward, and he does not like to make decisions. He has a special trait that makes him different from other humans; it causes some to see him as a monster.

One day he hears a monster's cry in the distance. Feeling like it is calling out to him, he leaves the village on his own to investigate. There he meets Marta. She seems to know Emil, though he cannot recall ever having met her before. She tells him that she is being hunted, and they agree to fight together.

It is soon revealed that he was summoned by Teneburae (English name unknown), whose voice he had heard earlier. He makes a deal with Teneburae and agrees to become a Knight of Ratatosk, thus enabling him to use Ratatosk's power during battle. Whenever he fights his eyes turn red and his personality changes into that of a cruel fighter."

But this doesn't make sense, why would he be summoned if he had a mother? So lets cite our character info from now on.WanderingHero (talk) 8:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The new information is all a translation from Gpara.com, so it should be reliable. I added a reference to clear that up.
I don't understand what doesn't make sense - what mother? The events described happen after the Blood Purge so Emil would have no parents by this point. Marta would not have a mother then either.
There's one point I'd like to raise about Emil's description and that's about his trait. We have "He has a special trait that makes him different from other humans; it causes some to see him as a monster." Could this trait be his personality and eye-color change caused by using Ratatosk's power? If it is then it is mentioned twice and should be removed. I ask this because his description at Gpara.com doesn't mention a special trait but describes that change. Mizutori (talk) 20:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
We should assume that this "special trait" is the gift of Ratatosk. As such, I've removed the line in question. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WTH is with the plot!?

Either someone translated wrong, that is the acutal plot, or someone made it up or something... Because two things MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE: 1) in the most simplest of ways to say this, how can a city be massacred, namely Palmacosta, when it was already massacred by the Giant Kharlan Tree in the first game: Tales of Symphonia... and 2) how and why would Lloyd fight for teh Church of Martel, (which btw: shouldn't even exist anymore, which is ANOTEHR thing to ask, cuz it makes absolutely no sense, Martel has been proved false and same with all the stupid MUMBO JUMBO Mithos made up in order to ressurect his sister), in which since the Church and Tetheálla are on the same side, why the heck would Lloyd fight on their side, isn't he from Sylvarant, or shud I say, he IS a Sylvarantan...

I bet someone just made that little bit up or something, cuz seriously, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOVER!!!!! And about the portraying Lloyd in a negative light thingy, well it's like the long hair, huge bulgy eyes thing, they always do that in ANIME, it's like a cliche to make old characters do things like this... Plus, don't the characters fight each other upon seeing your newly made character in Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology, how can you say fighting Rid in RM means Rid is evil, what if Lloyd nd Emil are sparring or what if, they just met, and they doln't know who they are, and they think each other means evil, what if Lloyd thinks Emil is evil?!?!?! Huh1?!?! Tell me that!!! Sheesh!!! Whoever wrote that, well it shud be editted big time...

So, now I got this straight, I hope someone sees this, the plot and that tidbit about Lloyd's negative light thingy should be editted... unless if someone gives me a logical explanation about this... NOW!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.200.199.186 (talk) 22:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


I do not speak, read, and write Japenese, but I watched the trailer on the offical website. (The Tokyo Game Show Link at the bottom) If you watch it, it clearly shows Lloyd and Emil and Lloyd and Marta fighting, both at two different locations. Since Emil and and Marta travel together, why would they fight each other twice. After seeing lloyd in the Orginal Tales of Symphonia, he isn't the person to shoot first and ask questions later. Even if he was a bit hostile, I believe he would settle things the right way. Onece again, I am not fluent in Japenese, so there is stil achance this could be a misunderstanding, and you could be right. I'm just saying how I interpert it.

Also, I did't type the article, I found it like this this afternoon.

Secondly, you're thinking from Lloyd's party viev of the Church of Martel. Long after Lloyd found out that the Church didn't exist (Like 1/3 into the way of the Orginal Tales of Symphonia), millions of people on both planets believed the church still existed. The Pope still had a army behind him at the end of the game. Just because he went into hiding after he was confronted by Lloyd and Co. dosen't mean he's dead. THE POPE WAS ACTUALLY NEVER KILLED, to our knowedge. Also, I find it hard that eight people can yell out into the world "The Church of Martel doesn't exist!!" and have someone hear it. It's like someone saying to a Christan "I've died and found out that Heaven does not exist." Would a devout Christan (Or in this Case a follower of Martel) beleive you? Heck No. Once again I must give you credit. Lloyd well knew the church didn't exist. It makes no sense for him to join them

Palmacoasta was destroyed when the Great Khlaran Tree went Berserk, but remember, Two years have passed. If they can rebuild Luin into Luin, The City of Water (Screenshots on the website, look for it), they can rebuild Palmacoasta as well.

Remember, It's hard to translate Japenese. Someone that could do it wrote it down here. Give credit for a try, at least. Before you say anything else, follow the Tokyo Game Show Link ath the botton of the article, Press the link under the Picture with Emil and Marta in the Sunset, Watch the trailer, then come back and tell me what you saw. Also, go back and read the refrennces listed, and follow the websies for information. We don't know who is right, but check the evidence and clear citations before accusations are made. Please.AmericanAtl (talk) 23:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Please calm down. Wikipedia is not a forum; talk pages should only be used for discussions on how to improve the articles they are associated with. The Story section is a translation of a plot summary found at gpara.com; it was not made up by this article's editors. As with all stories, plot details (and reasons for characters' actions) will be explained with time. As such, please keep your accusations off of this page. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 00:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)



血の粛清 means "Purge of Blood" not "Purge of Flame." Other than that, it's accurate an gist of that article. And yes, I can read and write Japanese.

And for the heck of it. Here is the translation of the Japanese wikipedia entry:

Sylvarant and Tethealla

In the previous game, they were two linked worlds. Originally they were one world, but were divided into two long ago. Two years ago they were restored into one world by the World Regeneration. For the 800 years preceding the World Regeneration, Sylvarant was in decline and Tetheralla was prospering, so Sylvarant's technologies were far inferior to Tethealla's. And so, in the current reunited world, the people who lived in former-Tethealla tend to look down upon the people who are from former-Sylvarant. There are quite a lot of Sylvarant people who have grievance against the Church of Martel and Colette.

Purge of Blood

Carried out in the reborn Palmacosta by the Church of Martel. A purging against the influence of the Sylvarant people who have grievance against the Church of Martel. The alleged ring leader was Lloyd Irving. Among those purged were Emil's parents.

Ratatosk

A being that governs the natural balance. It is currently sleeping. That seems to be the cause of the current disruption in the environment.


So in answer to your questions. 1) They rebuilt it. Then burned it down. 2) The Church of Martel still exists. It still exists in the drama CDs which take place after the game. And it says Lloyd was "allegedly" the leader of the Purge of Blood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.249.189 (talk) 06:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

U made a mistake, the pope was captured at the end in one of the sidequests with Zelos, if Zelos is a character in this new Symphonia game, then probably the pope is behind bars right now.

And about the believing and not believing about the church of Martel... well its not a lie after all, cause Martel really exists, and the only wrong thing about it was the angel thing, but the main idea about a sleeping goddess was all true, she was asleep within the great seed... Anyway, Martel is the new spirit that guards the giant tree, and Ratatosk was the old one, so maybe the main conflict is between Martel and Ratatosk. Maybe that was the reason that made Lloyd fight with the new protagonist, cause Lloyd fights and protects Martel and the giant tree, and the new protagonist is a knight of Ratatosk, soo everything makes sense! Ratatosk wants to control the giant tree once more, but Martel is the new guardian spirit, soo the main conflict is between Martel which is protected by Lloyd and Ratatosk which has the protagonist of the new game as his knight. But there is something that was said before that I think is incorrect; think about it, why do the church attacked Palmacosta? there is also a church of Martel in Sylvarant. And besides, remember that at the end of the game Zelos has a chat of the king, well he told him that he wanted to be the one in charged of the church, not the pope. so if the Tethe'allan Church of Martel is in Zelos' command, why would the church attacked Palmacosta? Think about that.... TIMO))))) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.40.38.107 (talk) 23:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not that the church attacked Palmacosta. There was a fight between the Church and the Vanguard and Palmacosta was destroyed in the crossfire. And I don't remember Zelos saying he wanted to control the Church at all...ever. Also, I would swear the Pope ran off, even after the sidequest where you had to rescue Hilda, but then again, I could be wrong about that one. Cutepresea (talk) 20:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

What happened to the trivia?!?!?!? What happened to it!?!?!?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.200.216.157 (talk) 21:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Trivia seems to be back. I also added a little bit about the world map being the same as phantasia, You can see this in the trailer, however I wasn't sure how to properly reference it.Sylvanelite 10:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I edited the phantasia bit, saying that the town names are different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.243.126.208 (talk) 16:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

People keep trying to delete the Trivia but until they talk about I will keep putting it back up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thedarkpp (talk • contribs) 05:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

According to WP:TRIVIA, trivia should be integrated into articles if at all possible. Please stop putting the trivia section back: Wikipedia's policy on the matter is clear. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 00:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

-Agreed. Have you not read that? Policy is policy, trivia is sloppy. Plus, I think that Vetinari did a wonderful job putting everything together. Now if only we could get some more information.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.243.126.208 (talk) 15:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Main Series

Because, Destiny 2 was an actual sequel. This will be like ToP(TotW:)SL, and will most certainly not be a real sequel. -7th Pwnist-


Why does Destiny 2 get to be part of the main series but not the sequel to Symphonia? The nature of both games is the same. -- LordArcadio 20:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply - It is listed under main series in the Japanese Wikipedia section. Someone just listed it wrong on the English pages.

No, it was mentioned from conception that it's a spinoff. Destiny 2 isn't.--Claude 00:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

In Japanese it has only ever been called a sequel. Even Namco is calling it a sequel. Until a Japanese source calls it a spinoff it should be listed as a sequel. The Japanese version of this page is calling it a sequel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.249.189 (talk) 01:19, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Making the story section a bit more factual

The story section here seems to be lacking factual information. And looks as though it was ripped right out of a manual, If someone could come up with a factual summary possibly combining this with the history section, it would be great(djtjj 20:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC))

As of this moment, very little is known about the game; everything that is known about it is in that section. The Story section will undoubtedly be expanded as more information becomes available. Patrician Vetinari 22:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

From what I can see, there isn't even a source for the "manual" story. What is its source, anyway?--SyL64 11:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trailer

I swapped the Youtube with the official.

The official website exchanged the old Tokyo Game Show trailer with the new Jump Festa 2008 one. I renamed the external link as such.
Should the previous trailer be posted in some form as an external link? It could come from a gaming site or Youtube. Mizutori (talk) 12:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Undid latest vandalism edits

81.240.15.129 10:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lloyd Picture

Whoever took Lloyd picture down put it back because you did not discuss why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thedarkpp (talk • contribs) 02:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC) I don't know who did it, but as uploader of the picture, I will put it back up.--SyL64 13:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

As for the Lloyd picture, I agree with taking it down. It's very low quality and you can't clearly make him out as opposed to the actual video, which people can just watch by clicking a link. Second, why is it there in the first place? Lloyd has no mention in the page with the exception of that picture. Without any sort of reasoning to keep him there, we should get rid of him. The picture of him in a flaming background does detract from the page. 168.103.63.134 15:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Um, maybe because he's the main character from the last game, perhaps? It's a very significant scene, I'd say. But whatever. Somebody put a picture of better quality up, so it stays.--SyL64 18:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the picture that's up now has no source information and will most likely get deleted because of that. Cutepresea 03:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

WOOT! Lloyd FTW! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.248.253.95 (talk) 17:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kuchinawa

Any sources on this? 168.103.63.134 15:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


I don't see why anyone put that up in the first place, it doesn't actually state anything. Just that you have no idea what Kuchinawa is doing. Wow, big surprise, cuz' it's not like he's a NINJA or anything like that.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.243.126.208 (talk) 13:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No worries. I have already removed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marta192 (talk • contribs) 03:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marta's Weapon?

Does anybody think it looks strangely like Rinoa's weapon on Final Fantasy 8? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marta192 (talk • contribs) 04:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Badly Written Section?

"The Field Map won't be returning in this game. Instead, a point-and-click system using the Wii Remote will be used to navigate the world. The Field Map is also the same Field Map from Tales of Phantasia, except with the town names being those in Symphonia."

First it says there is no field map, then it says the field map is the same as Phantasia's. Can someone edit the game play section to make it more clear?--Drkirby (talk) 04:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I tried to clear that up a bit.(Eternum123 (talk) 15:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] New Info

With all the new info this page will be changed soon with Ricther Abend being shown and the old characters being playable. I will not do it because it will not look that good but someone else that is better at making it look good should put the new info on this page and should do it soon.

[edit] New Story Information

Someone translated the new story information from gpara.com but didn't source it. I added a reference to it but I think it should have been put off until the official site announced the information itself. It should be kept for now though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.145.220.24 (talk) 23:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Character Entries

We need to agree on a conclusive policy with regards to new characters, like Colette. Should characters whose playability has been confirmed in magazine articles (but not on the official website) receive their own entries on this page? Patrician Vetinari (talk) 16:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

They should all have one eventually, but right now we just don't have enough information on what she or any of the other returning characters are doing other than that they are there. It seems a bit pointless to me.
If we get more information on Colette or any other playable characters from another reliable source than the main site we should add it though. The official website is quite slow on updating so I expect it will be a while yet before we see anything new there. Mizutori (talk) 20:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Colette has been shown to be playable in the game, but the problem is that she already has a character description in the first game. We need to decide now if Colette should be added to this article or not, which is impossible without more information. I suggest we sit and wait, because if Colette is added to the official website, we must add her. WanderingHero (talk) 8:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Lloyd, Colette, Genis, Raine, and Zelos have pages on the official site now. I'm too tired to translate at the moment, but I thought I'd bring that up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cutepresea (talk • contribs) 04:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Why is this game rated B again?

I am a huge Tales fan, but why are both Tales of Innocence & Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk aged B? The original Tales of Symphonia was aged A in Japan, but why is game aged B? Its like the next Street Fighter or Parodius game in the US will be aged M, or something like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.147.240 (talk) 22:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It's probably best to wait until the game actually gets released to start asking that (as for ToI, I have no idea because I haven't played it yet, but this question seems better for a forum, really). Cutepresea (talk) 06:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Presea's age

I was just wondering, should it be noted that Presea is 30 chronologically? It is in her Symphonia profile, but not in this.

Sam (talk) 12:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be wise to remove Presea's true age from her Symphonia profile, and only mention that she's 28 in her section of the article. The same would have to be done for Kratos, of course, but this would unify their sections with their profiles on official website. As for Dawn of the New World, there's no need to say that Presea is 28 unless it is mentioned in the new game. Since her true age hasn't merited a place on her profile at the official Dawn of the New World website, it shouldn't be put on this page yet. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 14:37, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I was not disputing that her body is that of a fourteen year old. The official website has not denied this, and we know that she is thirty and is aware of this herself. I don't see any problem with putting "30 chronologically", when she is thirty, and putting "14 physically" when she has the body of a fourteen year old. What is the problem? The website would put '14' simply to avoid overcomplicating things for people who haven't played the first game. What's wrong with: Age: 14 physically (30 chronologically)? Or vice versa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 22:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It should be 14 physically (30 chronologically or however you want to word it) Thedarkpp (talk) 23:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Exactly! As long as both are put down. It doesn't matter if it's in the text part; it is much more relevant under 'age'. I'm not disputing that she's fourteen physically, I'm merely adding that she is techincally thirty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 15:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The fact that she's 30 is already mentioned in her section of the article: putting it as her "Age" would merely be repetitive and redundant. Furthermore, since her chronological age has not merited a place on the official website, there's no reason to put it on this page yet. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 21:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
It is very obvious that you did not beat Symphonia because after you beat it in the final cut scene when (SPOILERS) Presea is at Alicia's grave she CLEARLY states that she is 28! So if you take 28 add 2 years... I believe that would be 30. Thedarkpp (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I think you've misunderstood my point: I am not disputing that Presea is really thirty years old. All I'm saying is that, since a description of her true age already makes up half of her section of the article, stating it twice would be both redundant and repetitive. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 02:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, ok. I see what you where saying and I know what you mean, but I still think it should say 14 and 30 because she is 30. Thedarkpp (talk) 04:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Under 'age' you would expect to be able to find her real age too. The 'age' part is the most relevant part. We should still put '30' under 'age'; the article just explains it in greater detail. By your logic, what is the point in putting her physical age at all, if you can read about it in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 14:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping that it would not come to this even though it is two to one agreeing that it should be 14 physically; 30 chronologically, but I guess we will need to vote on it.

I vote it should be 14 physically; 30 chronologically because that is her age and there is no disputing that. Thedarkpp (talk) 18:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
No, there's no point in having a vote: after all, Wikipedia is not a democracy. As such, votes should only be treated as a last resort, and even then they should not be considered binding. But back to the matter at hand. The official website (on which the Characters section of this article is directly based) does not consider Presea's chronological age to be worth stating in her "Age" line, so neither should we: after all, the part of this article that lists each character's age, weapon(s), and physical characteristics should only be a very brief overview. Until the game is actually released, we won't know if her age is a pertinent issue in the new game, so there's no need to mention in her "Age" section. Furthermore, as I've already said, doing so would be truly redundant. It is for these reasons that listing her chronological age would do nothing to improve the article. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 21:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I understand what you are saying but the fact is she is 30! If under the age section you find something other then the age of that person it does not make sense. Even if it is explained about her being older it should still be listed under her age because she is 30! Thedarkpp (talk) 23:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
That's right; we know that it is true. There is no reason not to put her chronological age there, because it wouldn't be redundant; it is a summarisation of the information below it. It doesn't matter what the site says. As I have said before: The first game is more canon than a website which has been set up primarily to provide information to people who haven't played the first. The only reason why her real age isn't listed on the website, is because it would overcomplicate things for people who haven't played Symphonia. Canonically, we know her true age is thirty, and so Presea's chronological age belongs in the 'Presea' section under 'age'. The reasons to include it outweight the reasons not to. We should vote on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 16:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
The website is perfectly canon: remember, we're dealing with a spin-off sequel, so we don't know how relevant the events of the first game will be to Dawn of the New World's plot. After all, when the game was first conceived, no major characters from the original Tales of Symphonia were expected to return. Until the game itself is released, the information on the website needs to be treated as canon. As I've said several times, since Presea's section of the article is almost exclusively devoted to a discussion of her age, stating that she is 30 in multiple places would be perfectly redundant. As for the vote, according to both Meta-Wiki's guidelines and Jimbo Wales himself, voting should always be avoided if possible. Until now, we've been (unconstructively) arguing and repeating the same points: is there no way that we can compromise on the issue? Patrician Vetinari (talk) 23:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it will be impossible to compromise because me and the person with the IP address both agree on it being in her age. I do not know why it is so hard for you to understand that. A persons age should be in their age description and because she is thirty it should say so. Even though it is described about her being in an ageless state for 16 years she is very well aware of the fact the she is 30. And you talking about plot points has nothing to do with her age description and did help, maybe even hurt your argument(not trying to be rude). It is not going to hurt anybody to have the words physically and 30 chronologically in the description. Thedarkpp (talk) 01:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I've already given my reasons for opposing the change; I've stated them time and time again. This discussion should not be treated as a personal debate: we are, after all, only trying to find consensus. Unless we can resolve the issue with a compromise that reflects our consensus, however, nothing can be done to change the page. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 15:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
And we have given our reasons for the change time and time again. Thedarkpp and I both agree: "It is not going to hurt anybody to have the words physically and 30 chronologically in the description." Exactly. The information is correct, and acts as a summary. It is benificial (admittedly and albeit, marginally) to have both. Two against one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 18:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
You(Patrician) are starting to sound ridiculous if you cannot understand why we believe her age should be in her age. I really do not want this to turn into some kind of "change war." Even if it is talked about it should be shown. I can almost bet you that later on this will be brought up again if nothing happens and it will keep being talked about. I do not know why it is so hard for you to add 3 words to the article, it will not make the article worse and we will not be lying to people that look at the page. With just the 14 up it is lying because Presea is a special case in which she has two ages: physical and chronological. Thedarkpp (talk) 18:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I also find nothing wrong with it. I feel that the description only elaborates on the fact further, it's not necessarily redundant if that's the case. Cutepresea (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Fantastic; three of us can see the logic behind it. Three words. Three words which will summarise a point. I'm a pedant on a mission. The 'change war' has actually been on for a while; I've been changing the age from '14' to '14 physically, 30 chronologically' for weeks now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 20:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
There was really no need to make this personal: doing so was contrary to both Wikiquette and Wikipedia's policies on dispute resolution. When you first began changing Presea's age, consensus was against you; now, I can see, it is against me. As such, I'll stop reverting the edit. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 00:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Geez, I never thought that I would care that much about Presea. Hopefully there are no hard feelings. Thedarkpp (talk) 01:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
No, no hard feelings. Thank you. It's not that I care that much about Presea; I'm just pedantic by nature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 13:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Yikes! I only asked because I wasn't sure myself, I wasn't expecting a full-blown argument over the whole thing >< Sam (talk) 12:23, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Protagonists"

I think the Protagonists line in characters section should be removed because we do not know who is and is not a protagonist. Thedarkpp (talk) 01:59, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Is anybody going to say anything about this because if not I will remove it. Thedarkpp (talk) 04:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Catchphrases...

Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.126.105.160 (talk) 16:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

These are certainly pointless; they aren't officially catchphrases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 23:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna go ahead and remove them.Eternum123 (talk) 18:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Spin Off

Where did this come from and why is their no citation to a claim like that? It's been debated for awhile if this game is part of the main series so it definitely needs citation for now. Until it is I moved the game back into the Main series. --74.132.94.122 (talk) 12:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

If you were going to move it, then you probably should've changed that line that says "Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World is a spin-off sequel" in this article, but the truth is Nintendo Power had a interview with a producer who said that the game is "somewhere between a spin off and a sequel." Someone could put up a link to a scan of that page or something as a source for that. Cutepresea (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Alice and Dex

They need to be put in the characters section. Thedarkpp (talk) 19:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I'd do it, but my Japanese translation skills are terrible and I can only make out half of what the article on them said. Cutepresea (talk) 23:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

It'd be exceedingly helpful if you did, because I for one hadn't even heard of them before seeing the names here, on a Wikipedia talk page of all places! Even if you just put their names, and the fact that they have been mentioned as significant characters by a Japanese publication. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.158.114 (talk) 23:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The name Dex itself is a guess on our part, as the article we got it from only had it written in Japanese as dekusu (デクス) I do have a vague idea of what it's trying to say (although I need help with what it's saying in the second sentences of both Dex's and Alice's sections, as the wording in Dex's confuses me a little and I don't know all the characters in Alice's). I'm also not entirely sure how we should go about adding this information. Cutepresea (talk) 04:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I added them. If anybody sees any mistakes in the translation, please, feel free to correct them. Cutepresea (talk) 09:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Controls Section

This should probably be in with the Gameplay section. Also, it appears as if someone translated from the official site using an online translator so it makes no sense whatsoever. 69.68.129.158 (talk) 08:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Alice 1.jpg

Image:Alice 1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Adding Dates

Please, do not add anymore release dates until we have more info or confirmation of it's final release date. The only dates that have been fully confirmed is the Japanese and North American version only. Zeta26 10:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ok there is a gender detail that should be added about the Centurion Spirit's

it says Tenebrae is a male and aqua is a female, sure that being true by appearance but heres the cold hard facts that they are spirits just like summon spirits, back in ToS zelos was saying how hot celcius was but sheena told him that summon spirits were neither male nor female that they just took the form of male or female by choice and in other words if they can take form once that means they r not solid beings hence "spirits" thus they should be genderless or this should be noted since this may or may not be a valuable fact plus the info should be as accurate as possible

You're mixing your skits together (she said the thing about Summon Spirits being genderless when talking to Lloyd about Maxwell), but that's probably true. I go for changing to the way it is on the official website and have their genders as "?", but that's just my opinion. Cutepresea (talk) 01:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree: listing Tenebrae as male and Aqua as female is not supported by any official evidence. As far as I can tell, it's pure speculation, so it should be removed. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 02:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Summon spirits may not have technically had a gender, but they still chose a male or female body. Efreet chose to be male, Undine chose to be female, etcetera. Who's to say these can't choose what gender to be? Then again, if the website lists them as '?', then that's what we should have here, since we don't know how similar they are to summon spirits.82.25.9.85 (talk) 14:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

I've changed the genders to "?" for both Tenebrae and Aqua, but I left pronouns such as "he" and "she" in the descriptions (although I probably shouldn't have). If anyone disagrees with the way it was done, feel free to change those to "it" or something of the sort. Cutepresea (talk) 04:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Umm, Gender is a word which refers to how a person portrays themselfs. It's totally different to "sex" which is whether you have XX or XY genes. Since Celcius looks like a girl and talks with a female voice she is indeed "female" under the classification of Gender, just like a person with XY genes who looks like a girl and acts like a girl can be classified "female. 203.208.72.195 (talk) 11:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

That's also referred to as a gender identity. Some people prefer to use the term "gender" over "sex" (the English version of Tales of Symphonia did this itself in said skit and on the official website in the character descriptions) and is technically correct. Cutepresea (talk) 23:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Changing things

Please, if someone reading this wants to change something, at least write the changes at the summary, use the show preview option, and don't just delete a lot of things because a word was wrong.

I highly recommend that the ones editing login before doing so, because we can't comunicate with the users to discuss about no understandable changes.

This is for all of us, so don't be so selfish and change things just because you don't like the way they're wrote —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrescapo (talk • contribs) 04:00, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Battle System

There seems to be a dispute about the battle system.

Personally, I prefer the way I wrote it, because the official site says it's the FR-LMBS, and it's only using a few aspects of Tales of Destiny (PS2) or Tales of Innocence's system.

I think the original way was poorly worded, and made it almost seem like it was using an updated version of Tales of Innocence's battle system.

Plus, the next sentence describes what it's like, without the need to say what it resembles in the previous sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpgmonkey (talk • contribs) 07:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


And what's the problem about try to give an idea of how it will evolve for this game? that is why i just say something like "giving a battle experience comparable to DS-LMBS. I don't say it IS DS-LMBS so there's nothing wrong with it.
Like with Presea's age, we pu both her chronological and phisical age, it's about giving information and have it the more complete possible.
As we aren't saying that it is DS LMBS it can be there for give an idea of how will be the battle pace.
Generally, no Tales game has the exact SAME Battle System, basically just a word in the system changes because of some aspect. So for now it will be FR LMBS but will have an explacation with the example of the DS LMBS. It's only for informative reasons.
Okay, I'm already confused. I don't see anything anywhere that says anything supporting that, only that it uses the Flex Range Linear Motion Battle System. Although,I'm not changing anything. I just want to see a source for that information. Cutepresea (talk) 03:52, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citing Dates

Either someone needs to cite these release dates or they need to come off. I never heard them, but I'm assuming someone actually has a probable cause for putting them on there, and if so please put a source.

[edit] The map being the same?

The worlds were joined at the end of Symphonia, would this not mean the maps are now a mixture of both worlds? This was never a map seen during Symphonia so how can they be the same? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.37.147.148 (talk) 23:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Wait...the same as...what? The article says the same as the one in Tales of Phantasia (although if you look closely at the map in Dawn of the New Wolrd, it's really not exactly the same). Cutepresea (talk) 04:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
When you compare the Phantasia map with Symphonia's, you can clearly see that each area from both Sylvarant and Tethe'alla is present in this new world. Well, of course, it would have been done the other way around, what with Tales of Symphonia being a prequel and all... 82.25.9.85 (talk) 12:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)Rob64
They're similar...they're just not identical...maybe an edit with better wording is in order here? Cutepresea (talk) 22:48, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What is this, a character encylopedia?

This page has turned out more about the characters than the game, I dont see this sort of character listing on any of the other tales of games pages, as far as im concerned they should either be on the characters profiles or not at all, not on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.37.147.148 (talk) 20:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's much point in creating a "List of characters in Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World" page at this point in time, if only because doing so would turn this article into a stub. When the game has been released, however, we should certainly create a separate page for the game's characters. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 22:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy Deletion

Not sure who nominated it for speedy deletion, since it says it was tagged on the 10th and I'm the only one who's made an edit so far, but I'd hardly say that it needs to go. JDub90 (talk) 15:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

The article was actually never up for speedy deletion. What you removed was a template stating the article was about a unreleased game and that the content may changed substantially when more info is available. This has been up for some time. I have readded it. Finally, actualy speddy deletion templates are larger and pink in colour. --76.69.164.71 (talk) 03:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Theres a lot of non-free media on this article. Its still only start-class, so I'll let it slide. However, as the game comes closer to the release date most of those images of each character needs to be deleted. A development and reception section needs to be created, and the character section needs to be drastically shortened. But for now, I guess its fine. --24.6.103.162 (talk) 17:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Eh...that was me. I can't believe it...2nd time I forgot to sign in in a week... Ah, and just to make it clear, the gameplay pictures and the one on the really top are great images. They should stay. And a boxart should perhaps be instilled as soon as possible.--haha169 (talk) 17:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Well... all the images have the rationale, and i like how it looks but you have your points, for now let's leave that the way it is, there are no problems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrescapo (talk • contribs) 23:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Controls Section

Multiple websites (IGN, 1UP, Gamespot) talk about the battle control schemes - motion controls, what each button does, etc. I was wondering whether this is something that should be added to the article or not? And if so, where - a new subheading? It doesn't seem like appropriate Wikipedia material, but it is information one way or another. Mizutori (talk) 23:43, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

To be perfectly honest, I don't think that it's necessary to list what each button does: this is an encyclopaedia article, not a FAQ. If anything, this page is too FAQ-ish as it is. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 03:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] spin-off sequel?

That just sounds wrong. But it seems the article keeps switching back and forth between the two descriptions. Which is it? 24.18.240.159 (talk) 00:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo Power had an interview where they said it was somewhere between a spin-off and a sequel, but more recent interviews tend to just say "spin-off." When I changed it to "spin-off" and added a source, I was hoping that would end it, but I guess not...Cutepresea (talk) 00:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Something needs to be figured out unless someone wants to cause a revert war. If this can't be resolved in a civil manner I'd hate to see what might end up happening. The way I see it a spin-off title can't be a direct sequel, so it's pointless to assume otherwise.--98.223.40.250 (talk) 20:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Please don't change the sentence in question until we've reached a consensus. Personally, I'm inclined to agree with Cutepresea: regardless of the game's original status, it seems to have become more of a spin-off than a sequel. Patrician Vetinari (talk) 22:12, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Winter release date?

According to Nintendo Power, the release date has been bumped up to some time during Winter. I can't get the link to the scan, but is it okay to edit that in? Eternum123 (talk) 14:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's the link to the scan, please update the release date: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/YaminoKaitou/scan0001-1.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.231.135 (talk) 22:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

My cited release date got reverted, but 1up.com currently has it listed as October 15th. --Remy Suen (talk) 02:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lloyd the Antagonist

Personally i dont think lloyd will be a permenant antagonist i mean seirousally ti make the protagonist of almost the ENTIRE SERIES a bad guy? its assanine

it is certain that he will be like Kratos just a temporary antagonist.

possibly the pope or somone higher will be the main antagonist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.55.72.253 (talk) 02:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we won't know that for sure until the game gets released (although judging from how Tales games usually are...), and I'm happy you refrained from adding that in the article itself, since it's what you think. Cutepresea (talk) 04:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)