Talk:Taipan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flag
Portal
 Taipan is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as start-class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
This article is supported by WikiProject Australian biota.
Assessment comments
Amphibians and Reptiles Portal
Taipan is part of WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use amphibians and reptiles resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.
Start This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Does anyone think that the content of this article might be better off if it was moved to the individual species' articles? This article on the genus is starting to contain more and more info on the species it contains. Smacdonald (talk) 04:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The book I have (Living Snakes of the World) does not mention Oxyuranus microlepidotus but rather Parademansia microlepidotus (Smooth-scaled snake) which lives in New South Wales and Queensland. RedWolf 06:41, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

After reading this article, I have some questions. What regions of Australia are Taipans found? Where are Coastal Taipan found? Where are the 'Fierce Snake's found? What is their habitat? How many offspring do they have? How often? What times of year? -- CraigKeogh 06:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

This site [1] from the University of Melbourne explains that Taipans are not docile at all, and are in fact quite aggressive. The site also says that the range of the Taipan is from Darwin to Brisbane, mainly along the coast.

I can confirm that [at least the inland] taipans are or can be extremely aggressive. They have a reputation among the locals west of Cairns (north east coast of Australia) for attacking both animals and humans seemingly without reason. I've only ever seen an inland taipan once, and it was in captivity. As soon as we walked into the room, the young snake (maybe 6 months old, about half a metre long and very thin) immediately began striking in our direction, smashing its head over and over into the wall of the glass box, we could see venom sliding down the side of the glass and it didn't stop until we left the room. The guy who owned/looked after the snakes said if you stay in there long enough, it will eventually injure itself to the point of bleeding. I've seen coastal taipans a few times in the wild, and while they've never attacked me they also never fled or attempted to hide like most other snakes. Rather they simply watched me to see what I'd do next. Since I was usually at least an hour from any medical help I've always left the area immediately. --Abhi Beckert 08:51, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pic

Is it possible to get a picture on Wiki. Mike.

Hi Mike, If you would like to upload an image, you have to sign up first. It is very easy and, of course, free. We would really appreciate your image. Thanks --liquidGhoul 14:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I might be able to organize a picture, I know someone who has many snakes in captivity, and he had a young inland taipan last time I visited (over a year ago). Abhi Beckert 08:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I just uploaded a picture of an Inland Taipan into this page. I took this photgraph while on holiday in Australia. The specimen was on display at the Manly Beach Aquarium near Sydney, and this was as close as they would let me get.--Merkurix 16:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diet

It is NOT specialised to feed on rodents - not unless they got specialised in 200 years, which is about as long as rodents have been in Australia since Europeans introduced them. What did they eat before that?

They are rodent feeders, especially the inland taipan. Australia has an awful lot of native rodents. Australia's not just about marsupials. We have about 196 placental mammals, including native rodents, bats and marine mammals. Smacdonald 04:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some fallacies in this discussion

I have just read some incorrect information posted as truth.

"Parademansia microlepidota" is old taxonomy. It has since been classified as been a Taipan (Oxyuranus). It occurs in North Eastern SA, North Western NSW and South Western QLD. It is not believed to occur in NT. There are very old, possibly incorrect records of them occuring near the junction of the Murray/Darling river.

Whilst Coastal Taipans are not "docile", they are not an agressive species. No snake is. Coastal Taipans are highly intelligent animals and when provoked, can move with lighting speed and amazing accuracy. They are by far the most dangerous species for a snake handler to work with. In the bush, they will normally be gone without a trace if there is any disturabance.

Abhi Beckert, I suggest you learn more about herpetology before posting. There are no Inland Taipans west of Cairns.

The reason the young Inland Taipan was striking was because it was feeling vulnerable. You would, too, if you were locked in an enclosure. Small pythons will do the same thing. The liquid on the glass would have been saliva. The amount of venom a juvenile Inland Taipan produces (less than 1mg) wouldn't be noticeable.

Taipans are specialised mammal feeders, mainly rodents. Before white man settled, they would prey solely on native animals, now they have a wider selection.

This was the only page which Abhi Becket posted, I doubt he/she is still contributing to Wikipedia. If you find any wrong information in the articles (not the talk pages), please change them to the correct info. Thankyou for setting everything straight. --liquidGhoul 08:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I cannot find any information to support that the LD50 scale for venom toxicity is not equally applicable to humans. Due to the dubious authenticity of the statement in the article, I think it should be removed. At the very least it needs a source. Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 11:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

How do you think this would be tested? We can't exactly go around killing humans. What makes you think that mice react the same way as humans do to snake venom? The LD50 is calculated using mice, and this page should certainly make reference to that fact, and suggest that readers interpret the results with caution when extrapolating to humans. Inland taipans are certainly adapted to eat rodents, so there's every reason to think (but admittedly no proof) that their venom is especially effective against rodents. I've put the statement back in and provided a reference for the possibility of a murine bias in inland taipan LD50 results, and a reference for a species of snake that exhibits a taxa-specific increase in venom toxicity. Let me know what you think. Smacdonald (talk) 09:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I would assume that toxicity tests could be carried out on primates (or some other animal) which would reveal whether there is a murine bias, and perhaps the extent (the LD50 test does not require mice, although I grant that this is almost invariably the case). Mostly I was just trying to get a reference for this information. In response to your question; I'm not trying to claim that you can extrapolate from mice to men. I did, however, think that it was a stretch to claim that because a snakes diet primarily consists of rodents that its venom was specifically targeted to such. In essence, my complaint is that we should not be adding information about potential murine bias unless there is direct citable evidence to suggest such (not that I don't believe that this is probably the case). I cannot easily check your references. If it refers to the Taipan's venom being particularly deadly to rodents (or a general tendency of the venom of snakes that target rodents to be particularly deadly to rodents), the murine bias comment should stay. If this is not the case, then the comment should really be removed until a source can be found that does indicate that the venom of the Taipan is particularly deadly to mice. Assuming that we leave the article as is, there is another problem. These two lines overlap: "The LD50 figures cannot be directly compared with toxicity in humans, however, as there is considerable variation in results from species to species and a host of environmental variables can further impact the results[4]." and "Calculated LD50 values might not be applicable to non-mammalian species, and may even be inaccurate for mammals other than mice and other rodents." One of these two lines should go. Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 14:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Just to add, primarily what I am trying to do here is to ensure that we do not violate the Wikipedia rule No original research.Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 14:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Primate testing with death as an end point is virtually impossible to do nowadays as far as I'm aware (in Australia, at least). I'll summarise the two references for you and you can let me know what you think. Mackessy et al (2006) said that brown tree snakes switch from eating lizards to birds as they get older. This change in diet is accompanied by a change in the toxicity of their venom, with young snakes having venom that is more toxic to lizards than adult snakes. The researchers also found that the snake's venom was not very effective against mice (i.e., you'd need a greater quantity of venom to kill a mouse than to kill a gecko or bird). Wilson (2004) simply states that there may be a murine bias in the venom of the inland taipan. It's a widely held thought, but there's no direct evidence from research done on this snake species. If Wikipedia has a rule that says an article can't contain realistic ideas that aren't confirmed, then we should get rid of it. It's certainly not breaking the 'no original research' concept because it hasn't been researched. Smacdonald (talk) 23:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I found the information related to this issue, and have added a reference. I have removed the comments on murine bias, as I can find no reference to this in relation to the taipan, or snake venom in general. If a reference can be found, please feel free to put it back! Puff Of Hot Air (talk) 08:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)