User talk:Tabascoman77

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[edit] Re: TDK

I'll explain this here as well. Talking about anything, based on your own observations, is original research and not allowed. The site is fine to list in the external links section, but we must have outside coverage of what went on with the site to put it in the article itself. This isn't like coming across something that says "The teaser trailer appeared in 10 out of 100 theaters" and then reporting that the trailer appeared in 10% of theaters. That's simple math, which doesn't require observation of any kind.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

On July 27th, the teaser trailer was released, attached to select prints of "The Simpsons Movie". Coincidentally, another viral site (entitled "Anticipation" and seemingly authored by "The Joker") debuted which features the same teaser trailer (in three high-quality HD formats) shown in theaters as well as a "bulletin" showing that "The Joker has been killed" and that "Gotham City PD can stand down". - The teaser appearing with the Simpsons, without a reliable source, is original research. You cannot simply say "it's there". I can't verify that, and since it isn't with every theater, it may not be with mine. Everything else there is original research. If someone wants to see the teaser, they can click the link in the external links section. This is not The Hire page, you do not get any leeway here. Provide a reliable source or stop adding the information. If you continue to add it without a source, I will report you for disruptive behavior.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for at least supplying a source for the teaser's inclusion with the movie. You still cannot describe the website. We dont' describe trailers, and we don't describe web pages. You need outside coverage discussing the marketing, you cannot do that yourself. It's indiscriminate information, because you do not establish a reason behind its inclusion of the page other than "fans would want to know". It's in the EL section, therefore people can click the link and view it themselves.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I wrote what I wrote. I'm not describing the site. The original poster said that the trailer was released on the site. I corrected the line to erase the trailer description. He's not describing the site, he's mentioning that the teaser has been released on the site (which makes the site legit). That's in-line with the marketing portion of the article.

I'm not familiar with The Hire, but if you cannot find a source for something then it needs to be removed. I'm not planning on rushing over there to delete all the unsourced content (I viewed the page, so if I did that, then about 65-80% would probably have to go), but remember that if you cannot find something in the end, then it probably should be removed. Move it to the talk page and leave a note requesting someone to help find a source for it, if it's becoming difficult to find it yourself. If the only source you've found for something is a forum comment, then it wouldn't be considered a reliable source, per the criteria. If you cite a forum you might as well cite someone's Wikipedia talk page, because that's about as reliable as forums are considered. Anyone can say anything they want on a forum, and it's rather hard to authenticate identities if someone claims to part of the production crew (someone even higher up the tier).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 20:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Civility

How are you today? I just wanted to advise you that if you get into a heated disagreement, take some time away from that discussion to cool off. I've gotten embroiled in similar discussions before where other editors don't agree with me, and I know that it's frustrating. I'm not an angel myself, either, as I've spouted my share of uncivil remarks. However, in the long run, it's best to remain objective and to sometimes give in to others' actions. I'm not implying that you should give in here with The Dark Knight, but if no one is willing to give in, the discussion runs into a stalemate. In regard to the present situation, if you are still interested in pursuing the matter future, I would suggest requesting a third opinion. I hope you can be more polite in future discussions; it's only beneficial to be on good terms with other editors with whom you work, even if there has been a specific disagreement or two between you two in the past. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not attacking anybody. I am pointing out the unfortunate characteristics of the other contributors and how it is negatively effectively the ability to post anything resembling context inside of an article. I have already agreed to stop the discussion as there is no more point in discussing the matter at hand. It is getting to the point where I really do not want to contribute anymore because all I have run into is stonewalling and roadblocks in the form of the senior posters. And so it goes, guys. I have nothing more to say, I have vented enough, I've said my piece. I have nothing against any of you guys anymore. Peace. Tabascoman77 8:32 (PST), 30 July 2007


I would just like to say that I sympathize with your frustration. As I said before I think wikipedias image policy is seriously flawed and needs reform. I have had very similar battles with other editors on certain articles and it often feels less like there fighting me becuase they disagree with me and more like enforcing a dogmatic consensus. I have often lamented as you have about just giving up and conspiracy's by senior editors against me.
However, try too look at this in a positive light, at least the image was posted somewhere. I find that if you fight long enough you will eventually get some kinda compromise. You may not get what you want, but at least you won't get what you want.
There are some very unreasonable senior editors on wikipedia, but I find if your patient you will find some reasonable ones as well. Take Erik, I've had some disagreemnets with him, but I found out once I talked to him that he was a fairly reasonable person. It's important to try and be polite in your tone. Sure, I've gotten to the point where I've said screw politeness, but it hardly ever gets me anywhere.
I think the image in the way it was posted in this article felt awkward and out of place. Besides on the main article at this point in production we should probably wait until the film is closer to release to start posting a lot of pictures.
I agree with you however the image is fair use and that those who say it isn't are fools. However, I no longer have the strength to debate wikipedia image policy.
I just want to say that for the future try and be less angry in your tone. I'm not saying you shouldn't get angry if theres justification, just that you'd be suprised how much more receptive people get around here when you ask nicely.annoynmous 17:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

We can start over if you remember that my name is Erik, not Eric. :) I was gone for the weekend, so I was able to come back to TDK with an objective eye. Otherwise, I might have been as combative as Bignole. Considering that he and I have fairly strong credentials (as well as Alientraveller, who was in agreement with us), we tend to profess that we know what we're talking about. Image use has been a slippery slope; I don't always agree with the criteria, as I'm fully aware that multiple movie sites display copyrighted images without a problem. The nature of Wikipedia, I guess, is to make image use relevant. I've actually combated an admin in the past against the deletion of a soundtrack cover image at a film article, but the fact that an admin was going around criticizing usage of non-free images made me mindful of the crackdown. (I call them wikihounds, and I suppose I may have become one myself.) Instead of what that admin and other editors have done by brusquely removing images that have sat in film articles for a while, I'm doing a different approach in which up-and-coming articles have unquestionable rationales for their non-free images. I believe I've done this appropriately at Sunshine (2007 film) and other film articles that I'm developing. I guess my perspective is that if the usage of a non-free image can be critiqued, then the case for it may not be so strong in the first place. I personally think that the IMAX and Batpod images will be longer-lasting in the article than the recent Joker image. Hypothetically, if the Joker image were in the article, it would undoubtedly be replaced in the very near future by something better. Anyway, that's how I've perceived usage of non-free images here on Wikipedia, and we don't have to debate this any further if you don't want to.

In case you haven't noticed, I've taken you off the customer list and placed your ErikBigNolePedia mention in a Miscellaneous section on my user page for the time being. I was not offended by anything that you directed at me or Bignole, I just did not care to have discussion with you based on your tone. My skin is thick enough to weather quite a few criticisms, on Wikipedia or IRL. :) I apologize if you feel shafted by "senior" editors (first time I've been called that, really); we tend to steward the articles as if it could undergo the FAC process any moment. To be honest, Bignole and Alientraveller are terrific people once you get to know them. I think that our methodology can come off as "anal and stubborn", but we just adhere to the rules strongly enough so the work in which we're involved can stand the test of time. I hope we can meet on better terms in the future. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 20:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Dark Knight

Just wanted to let you know that I've been watching the Dark Knight talk page, and I completely agree with you. I wouldn't have pursued the argument as much as you did, and I admire you for keeping it up in the face of opposition from the senior editors. I think that the fact that it is informative about the subject is reason enough to add info to an article, but obviously the others do not think this way. Just wanted to say that I'm on your side if you ever need votes for a poll or anything. Your friend, One Fried Egg 21:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bonds

Actually, I think the sentence you sent me is pretty good at summarizing what Bond's said. We can quote, but the point of Wikipedia is to try and paraphrases as much as we can, and if we can, then we should. I think the sentence on my talk page works well (I read the quote that was on the main Ecko page as well, just so you know I wasn't simply reading what you wrote).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably not, but "Verifiabullys" was a close one.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 16:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Hire

I'll take a look when I have time today -- I have a long day today (Monday is the heavyweight of the week for me). Just some quick notes: The Infobox seems to have an overload of information where it should be concise -- can the names be narrowed down, and perhaps have mini-Infoboxes for each short film? That would make it more readable and easier to attribute. I would also suggest ensuring that there is a citation at the end of every paragraph, and also to use Template:Cite news and Template:Cite web. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 14:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't think of any instances of short film articles that are structured well -- you might have to take the lead in this case! :) I think that it may be better to structure the article after a TV show's seasonal article. Take a look at Smallville (season 1) (Bignole's work) and how it lays out the episodes. Instead of Title / Writer(s) / Director(s) / Airdate / Ep. #, you could do something like Title / Main Actor(s) / Director / Vehicle. I would suggest, though, moving all the IMDb links to the end of the article, as external links are supposed to be placed there. Maybe you could ask Bignole to see if he can't edit the table to fit your attributes and color preferences (I'd suggest a similar blue to the short-film poster), so you can put in the short film information. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
You can cite one reference multiple times. Take a look at Valkyrie (film)#References -- I'm not sure if you're familiar with the method, but you can see "a b c" letters preceding some lines. Clicking on them separately will show where the reference is cited in the article. Here's a sample breakdown, with code showing:
  • <ref name="strike">{{cite news | author=Chris Isidore | url=http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/news/companies/gm_uaw_strikedeadline/index.htm?cnn=yes | title=73,000 workers walk in nationwide GM strike | publisher=[[CNN]] | date=[[2007-09-24]] | accessdate=2007-09-24 }}</ref>
  • <ref name="strike" />
  • <ref name="strike" />
  • (and so forth)
Let me know if you are familiar with this method or not. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:42, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

You might want to ask Bignole about what happened with screenshots for lists of episodes on Wikipedia. (In a nutshell: They were mass-purged due to insufficient fair use rationale.) Basically, if there is real world commentary on an image from the film, then it's more indisputably kept. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

If you can provide context about the look and style of each short film, I think you'll be fine. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 01:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You are welcome

That's part of what makes editing fun, Tabasscoman - not just learning new stuff and making something interesting, but meeting and helping out other interesting people. I am not sure where else I have helped you out, but it seems like you do the same thing with others. Good job on that. I will see you around. If you run into difficulties, please let me know. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 04:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)`

[edit] The Joker

You may be pleased to know that we have a picture of the Joker at The Dark Knight (film) -- with critical commentary, no less! :) We verifiabullies do get around to our promises. How's the editing going? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I guess I got my satisfied customers mixed up! You're right, the article needed to represent the Joker -- now the next worry is a picture of Two-Face. We'll have to go around that block again. :) Congratulations on improving The Hire -- it looks like you've got some masterful content about the topic. If you're interested, I can research the topic for you, especially for print sources. When I started editing, I relied entirely on online sources, but I've learned to research print sources, which have a bit more information about a topic. Work on The Dark Knight (film) goes well, though an editor had some concerns with the encyclopedic tone. It's got me thinking how to reword that because I think the problem with gradually increasing the article with new information is that we don't balance it from a historical perspective. It's too chronological, you know? "In August, this happened, and in October, this happened..." I'll have to come up with a way to address that tone. Otherwise, I'm trying to branch out from the superhero/sci-fi films. I updated Body of Lies (film) as much as possible today, and I have a zillion Google Alerts to set up for headlines of future films that look to be critically acclaimed or blockbusters. An editor's work is definitely never done, not on Wikipedia! —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Looks like you're off to a good start with Luther Stickell. I'd suggest providing some real-world context to substantiate the character -- for example, the conception behind him and how he's been received in the films. Wikipedia tends to frown on fiction that's written without utilizing secondary sources. You should check out items like Jack Sparrow and Jason Voorhees to see what I mean -- I doubt that Luther Stickell would warrant content as much as these two, but if you provided similar coverage, the article would be even better. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Awesome, because Alientraveller wrote up on Jack Sparrow, and Bignole wrote up on Jason Voorhees -- other folks from The Dark Knight (film). :) I haven't had much experienced in fictional character writing, but you should contact Bignole for advice. He's presently working on fictional character articles of horror film icons. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:53, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
If you're going to include summary detail that may not be seen as important as the general development of the character, you may want to ensure that it's backed with real-world context. According to WP:NOT#PLOT, "Summary descriptions of plot, characters and settings are appropriate only in the context of real-world information, not when they are the sole content of an article or told entirely from an in-universe perspective." An idea of how to provide context is to listen to DVD commentaries (if they exist); I wouldn't be surprised if they talked about the technology that Luther uses in the films. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 01:12, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:VinginSurma.jpg

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:VinginSurma.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 03:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free media (Image:Mission screen004.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Mission screen004.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 20:57, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mr. & Mrs. Smith

OK I'm sorry if you got annoyed of my removal of the differences. I don't want to go over the whole "original research" crap, but that is part of the reason that I removed it. If you think it should be on the page, then just keep it. (Wikirocks (talk) 05:31, 18 December 2007 (UTC))

OK, well I take credit for deleting it, but I don't remember changing it into "trivia". Well it was a while ago so maybe I forgot. (Wikirocks (talk) 06:42, 19 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] thanks

thanks for your comments. i haven't really done much on the BB article in a while, besides occasionally reverting vandals. but i'll take this as an entre to 'bury the hatchet', which i'm certainly fine with doing. after whats-his-name the designer did the whole online vote and alleged branding of the ball, it certainly became more notable and reasonable for inclusion in the article. in the grander scheme of things, the disagreement amounts to one small hill of beans. cheers. Anastrophe (talk) 18:43, 22 December 2007 (UTC)