Template talk:Table Greekletters

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We need something other than iso-8859-1 for this page. How do we do that? Preferably UTF-8...
Joeljkp 15:23, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

1 Obsolete letters
2 Greek alphabet letter images
3 size
4 Table ordering -- across or down?
5 Stigma image?
6 Table ordering -- across of down? answer
7 Proposed new template
8 Lunate sigma
9 Columns instead of rows
10 Image parameter
11 Stigma image
12 San image
13 Removed image at top of box

[edit] Obsolete letters

I've separated out the obsolete letters, to avoid confusion. By the way on my browser the digamma and sampi show up only in upper case, and qoppa and san don't show up at all, even with the font specification. rossb 12:52, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Greek alphabet letter images

Hello! I've added images, sans serif and serif, for all letters of the Greek alphabet. I'm unsure if this can – but should! :) – be incorporated into this table, but I thought it neat to clearly show visitors what each of these letters looked like, as each of the letters for the English alphabet (Latin alphabet) do. Thoughts? Thanks! E Pluribus Anthony 18:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] size

Can't this template be made smaller? Something like Template:Hebrew alphabet. In my opinion, the current version is too big - it takes up too much space on articles. Latinus 16:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

It looks fine on my screen. The size is apparently defined by the top image, which is typically no larger than a well-size thumbnail. I'll try to tweak (e.g., use of smaller fonts).

Beyond this, retrofitting it as suggested might be problematic: as with the English template, note that the Greek template includes images, upper/lower case renditions, and (unlike the English one) letter names. Arguably, the Hebrew template should be retrofitted to incorporate more and closely resemble these, not to pare down others to exhibit less. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 18:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Table ordering -- across or down?

Hello. I find the table hard to read; I want to read down the columns, but the table is ordered across the rows. I believe it is generally more common to order items in a table across if the table is wider than it is deep, and order items down if it is deeper than it is wide. Does anyone object to reordering the table so that beta is below alpha instead of beside it? Thanks for your comments. 64.48.193.172 19:14, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stigma image?

I don't know a lot about this subject, but I think that it's sure there should be an image from Stigma letter. Why it isn't in the template?

An image is available on the stigma page.

--Nethac DIU 12:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Table ordering -- across of down? answer

Now you say that, I think same - maybe we should do a voting about this subject. If there's already a votation, please put a link to it here. --Nethac DIU 12:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I came here with the same thought - that this current version is clunky and difficult to read. Barring any objections, I'll be bold and rearrange it and see what works. Perhaps something similar to Template:AZ. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 22:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed new template

I made some small changes to the template - its shorter, but not wider, making it simply smaller. No content is changed, except that i added the "lower" case and "upper" case things at the top (to show which is which. The only reason I thought of doing this is that on the page for Mu, the picture could confuse people slightly, because showing capitol Mu and lower mu next to eachother look like "M" and "u" (Mu). When I first saw that I thought it might have just been a title as in "this is the character Mu", but its actually showing the way the capitol and lowercase letters look

Here it is:

Greek alphabet
upper lower upper lower
Α α Alpha	Β β Beta	Γ γ Gamma
Δ δ Delta	Ε ε Epsilon	Ζ ζ Zeta
Η η Eta	Θ θ Theta	Ι ι Iota
Κ κ Kappa	Λ λ Lambda	Μ μ Mu
Ν ν Nu	Ξ ξ Xi	Ο ο Omicron
Π π Pi	Ρ ρ Rho	Σ σ ς Sigma
Τ τ Tau	Υ υ Upsilon	Φ φ Phi
Χ χ Chi	Ψ ψ Psi	Ω ω Omega
obsolete letters
Digamma	San	Qoppa
Sampi	Stigma	Sho

Fresheneesz 22:48, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm just going to replace it till someone changes it back. Fresheneesz 12:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the prior template: the revised one looks horrid, IMO, and takes up far too much space horizontally. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:46, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

On my browswer, it takes up no more space horizontally and is simply shorter. I don't know why it would be different on yours.Fresheneesz 02:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

It takes up more space horizontally on my monitor (in more than just one resolution) because, in the revised version, the text is spread across three columns, not two. This might not be an issue if we were dealing with the English alphabet (for which letters are simply known, without names alongside), but alas ... E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 02:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thats interesting, because when I view it, the picture of the letters on top is thing that determines the tables width. Perhaps there would be a way to condense it so it worked on your system too? Fresheneesz 10:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lunate sigma

Do we really need variant forms on the main table? Probably all of them have a variant form of two, only some of which are encoded in unicode. --Ptcamn 11:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I notice that the lunate sigmas break the layout, so we might want to remove one. But frankly, there is a reason why lunate sigma is encoded in Unicode (as opposed to being considered a font variant). We might consider dropping final sigma instead, which is really just an automatic word-final variant. I wouldn't know that any other Greek letters have true (named) variants. dab (ᛏ) 11:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

btw, there are in fact encoded variants, such as ϐ, ϑ, ϵ, ϰ, ϱ, ϕ which I wouldn't dream of adding here, precisely because they are just font variants which got their own codepoints merely because of their use as technical/scientific symbols. I am unsure about ϖ. dab (ᛏ) 11:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

How's lunate sigma not a font variant? The article as it is, at least, doesn't describe any special usages. --Ptcamn 11:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Lunate sigma is on the verge of belonging to a different alphabet. Are Α and A font variants? "Greek alphabet" conventionally refers to both the Eastern and Western Greek alphabets. In principle, there would be nothing to stop us from cleanly disambiguating them as two different alphabets. I do not suggest that we do that of course, and I recognize this is a minor point. If you don't like it, I won't open an rfar about it :) dab (ᛏ) 11:54, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Columns instead of rows

I saw this template and thought it really needed to read correctly as you go down the columns, rather than across each row. I saw here on the talk page that several people had made this same point before, but nothing had ever been done. So I did it.

I didn't change the "obsolete letters" section; if those should be changed too, that should be easy enough. —Bkell (talk) 20:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image parameter

I've added another parameter to this template, 'image' — it lets one specify the image to be used, in case the default naming convention 'Greek alphabet {{letter}}.png' doesn't apply (such as in Psi, which now uses an svg graphic). ~ Booya ^Bazooka 02:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stigma image

For some reason, the image for stigma doesn't show up. --WolFox (★Talk★) ^Contribs 16:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Stigma didn't appeared correctly in template. Thus I fixed this image appropiately by replacement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stigma_uc_lc.svg Now it displays correctly in template. Wikinger 19:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] San image

The letter San was not showing up properly in the table, either in Internet Explorer 7 or in Netscape 7.2. I've replaced it with an image, as used on the Greek version of this table. --rossb 12:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

And of course the image is not underlined (not linked) which perhaps improves legibility and might be extended to the other letters. I might add that I'm extremely dubious about including the letter Sho, and might make a case for including the ΟΥ ligature instead. --rossb 12:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed image at top of box

I have removed image at top of box because all of the images are broken on the pages. Note: Most of the Greek Letter pages have the image shown in a separate frame. Thanks, Monkeyblu e 02:16, 5 May 2007 (UTC)