Talk:Tablature

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[edit] Example

I'm going to work on an example tablature for this article... any suggestions as to songs? I was thinking of something simple like "major chords shown in tablature" but if you don't know how to read tablature you probably don't know chords. If I did something popular that everyone knows like "Yankee Doodle" or "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star", Joe Reader would be able to figure out how the tablature corresponds to the guitar neck. -- ヤギ

good idea -- Tarquin 09:29 Mar 8, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Slides & bass

I don't know many contemporary songs that employ slides... "ATWA" is a good example but it's not what I would call a "popular" song. If anyone knows a better example, feel free to chime in. -- Ô¿Ô

How about the opening bass line to "Otherside" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers? Be good to get some non-guitar tab onto this page... leigh

The solo of Metallica's Ain't My Biotch is played all with slide. [fluti@abv.bg]

Trouble by Coldplay17:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wright's guide

I have a question....one of the contributors to the old OLGA tab archive (Howard Wright) wrote a tablature guide for that site, which is pretty vast and encyclopedic. Would it be appropriate to ask him if we could use his guide here? Or I suppose we could just put a link to it. If anyone else wants to take a look at it, the link is: http://www.jmdl.com/howard/music/tabfaq.html Adam Bishop 16:28 16 Jun 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Monospace

Somebody less new to Wikipedia than me should convert all these tab examples to a monospaced font, and probably even add a note saying that viewing tablature online is often impossible when it's not displayed in a monospaced font. leigh

They're all in a monospace font on my screen. Adam Bishop 06:42, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Though it would seem that not all tablature sites are created equal, the problem seems to me that they are. They either share or steal the same tabs, so one can look through six sites and find the same exact information and nothing new. Thus we may need some sort of criteria for including and exluding external links. I notice, for instance, that one of the better sites, OLGA, is not included, while several similar sites similar to each other are. Perhaps we could have a short description of the link explaining its pluses, minuses, or other differentiating details? Hyacinth 29 June 2005 07:50 (UTC)

I've heavily trimmed this section per the guideline. - brenneman{L} 04:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

MXTabs.net has relaunched, and should have an external link provided. http://rebirth.mxtabs.net —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.196.76.162 (talk) 14:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tablature Wiki

Someone should create something like WikiTab or along those lines that would be the same idea as Wikipedia (where everyone can edit it) but for guitar, bass, etc tabs. The only problem I see with doing something like this is that much of the tablature community consists of young, often immature musicians who may erase/incorrectly change/deface credible tabs. It may require heavy moderation. This is just a thought, maybe someone could pick up on it. --68.80.154.52 15Aug2005

A place like this actually exists -- it's called TabWiki. There are already 1350 members (as of this writing) and it has only been in operation since February 2005. I think it has great potential. There is already a community of active tabbers, but it still has a way to go just to catch up to the collection of other, more established sites. It's located at http://www.tabwiki.com. --RockyRaccoon 21 Oct 2005.

I just had the exact same idea of a tab wiki, and came here to see if it existed. i will check out tabwiki immediately - thanks rocky! as for that link, i've put it into the article, cos i'm sure there must be others interested. [halio]

[edit] Classical vs Contemporary

It seems like this article is trying to be a compromise between modern tabs (generally seen as an easy way out of sheet music) and the classical tablature used before the standardization of sheet music. As an avid garage rocker, the impression I get is that nearly all tablature used today is ASCII tab; even when it's written by hand it follows the same formatting rules. I propose that the classical portion of the article should be split off into a new Classical Tablature article. The remainder should be merged with ASCII tab, keeping the Tablature name. Nialsh 14:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legality Debate

The last section of this article detailing the legal issues that online tabulatures are raising are either very badly written or have been the subject of various editing wars between those who are pro-legalization and anti-legalization. Either way, it is unacceptable in its current form and should be re-written with no biases and perhaps the controversy should have a separate section of its own for those keen on this issue to butt heads.

I did a re-write. It was hard to fix some of the non-NPOV stuff without outright deleting it. As an intermediate, I placed requests for citations. If these aren't answered soon, the statements should be deleted. - Sancho McCann 13:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I second the deletion of the last "hypothesis" section if citations are not made soon. It seems to provoke a highly inflamatory context and is neither neutral nor informative. I also second the legal issues having its own page. It may draw more attention, thus drawing more experts. - Blueshango 15:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The last edit by Charlescosh was nothing but a removal of the citations that were requested in order to bring factuality to the section. I updated the portion in question by removing the non-NPOV content and making it in compliance with neutrality standards without completely eliminating it. I also cleaned up the grammar and punctuation and added the current event banner. Hopefully this edit will be satisfactory. - Blueshango 15:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

"The Music Publishers' Association (MPA) has recently deemed unauthorized tablature illegal and is beginning to shut down websites that offer free tablature." It seems to me that the MPA is not a legislating body and can't make anything illegal; is the MPA really the one shutting down websites? I think it is their threats of legal action. Seems to me the section still needs some work. I'd try but i really don't know much having had something of a shock when i tried to find a tab yesterday :-( 71.82.71.185 20:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

So far as my understanding of the situation (and I'm an avid fan of both guitar tabs and copyright law), there have only been threats by the MPA, NMPA, EMI, and other companies and organizations. No free Internet tablature site has ever gone to court, nor has any case been brought up by United States Legislature or Supreme court. The tactic of companies and organizations is to threaten sites and hope they comply. Tablature websites don't generate enough revenue to actually wage a legal battle, so they often go shut down completely, stay open in disobeyance, start similar websites with the same content, or locate servers in countries/jurisdictions where the copyright laws do not apply. The tale of the On-Line Guitar Archive reflects this. OLGA may not have been the first tablature website, but it was the biggest. Then EMI threatened a lawsuit, and it shut down. What happened afterward was the emergence of so-called "renegade" OLGA sites around the world (I remember one in Poland and another in South Africa that popped up). OLGA later revived itself on the basis of fair use doctrine; specifically, a bypass of copyright infringement due to the site offereing an educational service and distrubuting educational products. Nothing has ever gone to court, and no legal decisions have been made. Only threats by major publishing organizations. I continue to follow this day-by-day, as I find it really interesting. Again, there is no direct legislation on free Internet tablature--they've been too busy fighting over illegal music and movie pirating. All that exists is lots of arguments, speculation, and--most definitely--opinions. - Blueshango 21:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

its so stupid all these copyright debates. Is it illegal to show someone how to play something when you're sitting next to them? What about writing it down on paper for them? What about writing it in a .txt file to email to them? So what's the problem with posting tabs online. Most are complete s**t though so if you want the real thing then buy the official tab book. Does the music industry realise its killing itself?

www.bassmasta.net and www.guitarmasta.net are back online and now features their legal stance on the index page.

I agree. Tabs must be copied from copyrighted PRINTED material in order to be illegal, meaning that they have to have been copied directly from already-published tab books put out by the copyright holders of the music. Any tab created by an individual without direct plagiarism from a published source cannot be illegal, for the same reasons that selling audio rips of Simpsons DVDs would be illegal but teaching people how to do a Bart Simpson impression would not be.67.177.49.13 (talk) 22:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Birthday tab

I added a part from Happy Birthday to give readers who may not be familiar with chords an example they can relate to easier. I think it's a good idea, correct me if I'm wrong.--LifeEnemy 14:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It's okay for now, but if free Internet tablature of copyrighted material is deemed illegal in the future, it may need removed. The song is copyrighted (see Happy Birthday To You). -- Blueshango 01:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Following the guidelines at WP:EL and WP:SPAM, I've replaced the large external link section with a dmoz ODP link in this edit. Good links that pass WP:EL should be added back individually if a consensus supports their inclusion. -SpuriousQ (talk) 12:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cleaned out (a dozen links) again, and added a {{subst:nomorelinks}} template. Femto 12:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External link proposal

I'd like to propoes that an external link to printable blank TAB paper be added to this page, as I believe it would be a useful resource for readers: http://www.guitaristhelp.net/Manuscript_TAB.gif I, therefore request that the suitability of this link is assessed by Wikipedia editors. Guitaristhelp 09:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC) 12th July 2007

[edit] Clean up July 2007 - proposed direction

I've started a clean up of style and content in the section on guitar tab. Most of my attention has been given to the advantages/disadvantages between tab and standard notation content. However, I consider the very inclusion of such lists as NPOV as it forces Wikipedia to make judgement calls. I propose to do a rewrite, pending feed back from this comment, beginning in 7 days, to remove advantage/disadvantage distinction and merge lists under sub heading "points of difference" between the two systems. For what it's worth, I have strong opinions as to the place of tab in music education but will try not to let them intrude. RichardJ Christie 03:09, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Well done Richard, it looks very well written and balanced. Well, I am not sure who wrote the following but I think it sounds quite POV.
>"the large variety of techniques now available to modern guitarists that are not well represented in staff notation."
This sentence needs more balance. It would be better if it addresses the fact that staff notation are most often used by classical guitarists, hence the techniques it describes are, inevitably, classical. Staff Notation may not describe electric guitar technique such as tremolo arm usage, but it represents classical music perfectly well. Just like tablature does not represents elements that are extremely important in classical guitar such as minims, crotchets, quavers, etc.
I think it is just different system for different usage, notation represents better for classical; tab is better for electric. --Da Vynci 21:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


>"well-written tablature will often sound better than the equivalent staff notation"
I really don't understand how can a writing system can 'sound' better. --Da Vynci 21:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
  • LOL, I actually have strong opinions for the use of standard notation. From what I have seen, the dependence on the ease of tab led to the degradation of this beautiful polyphony instrument to a mere monophony or homophony instrument. Tab users are typically unable to play pronounced melody with the chord at the same time, this is kind of sad. --Da Vynci 22:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The author of ":the large variety of techniques now available to modern guitarists that are not well represented in staff notation." etc used it to replace "Tablature has few advantages over staff notation.". I think your strong opinions agree with mine. RichardJ Christie 12:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] guitar tablature

[pre]Generally speaking, guitar tablature is commonly used by informally trained musicians in folk, popular and rock music.[/pre]

I don't think this is accurate. As a formally trained guitarist, I was taught to read tablature pertaining in classical music. Can someone elaborate on this?Sammyluvlucas 14:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

It's a generalisation, and valid. Reliance on tablature, rather and standard notation, will allow a guitarist to skirt around the edges of classical guitar performance and repertiore; but it is inadequate for fuller understanding. For evidence of this you need look no further than the total absence of tablature in modern classical guitar courses in all conservatoriums, universities or higher musical training centres. RichardJ Christie (talk) 00:43, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It is accurate. I cannot agree more with RichardJ Christie! Reading only tabs will never help guitars to develop the understanding of music theory that standard notation could offer. For example, when you read standard notation, you know exactly what notes you are playing (and I am not talking about just the location on the fretboard). This alone can give the guitarist an intuitive insight on how music is composed and the music theory behind it. Certainly, tab users could go and learn music theory, but tabs are just not as well integrated as standard notation. --Da Vynci (talk) 01:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Da Vynci said: I understand your sentiment, but conservatories, universities or higher musical training centres are not the only places to learn standard notation. All you need is someone who can read notation to teach you. I understand some ppl may need to learn w/o teacher, but the facts still remain, tab has limitations and those limitations are still there whether the students is poor or rich. The section is about the comparision on the systems, not a place for sentimental statement about how financial difficulties impact on student's learning process.

Da Vynci said: In the Direct visual representation, I saw in your edits that you tried to suggest TAB is a great alternative for ppl who learn guitar without teacher, but since the original is already stating that tab is easier and quicker to interpret, so your lengthily version that talks about musical journey and luxury seems drove the away from the main point and compromise article's readability.

Da Vynci said: For Fingering position section, you removed the important opening sentense, which is states the fundamental difference b/w 2 systems.

Da Vynci said: For instrument-specific, you removed the fact that almost all other musicians use standard notation, that's why it helps communication if a guitarist also knows notation. For inherent harmonic, you remove the important fact about notation is codified.

Again I appreciate your effort, but your edits compromise the clarity and readability, so I have no choice but to revert it. --Da Vynci (talk) 08:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Da Vynci said: Firstly, it is not my old version, the version before your edits are collaboration between many people, the page belongs to everyone who contributed.

Da Vynci said: Secondly, wikipedia about information and facts, so writing should be kept informative and formal, not emotionally charged and personal. In this case, in the section about differences b/w system, the eariler version has already stated that tab is easier to read and quick to interpret, the writing was informative and formal until you added stories about musical journey and class struggle.

Da Vynci said: Censoring certain facts and information on the page in order to 'encourage' readers to adopt one system over another is definitely unacceptable, nor it should include any info that are irrelevant and emotional charged. In this case, the tab/notation comparison section includes tab's limitation amongst others difference b/w the system, it is telling exactly the facts that everyone should know. --Da Vynci

Da Vynci said: BTW, do you (Moondoggie9) actually read Standard notation? (talk) 01:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Da Vynci said: Hi Moondoggie, why are you spamming this talk page? You have already posted the above exact message more than once. —Preceding comment was added at 00:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] polyphone guitar tabulature

I would like to put my page http://www.en.tabulaturen.eu/ to "External links" Text: "Collection of polyphone tabulatures". As far as i know there existed no polyphone tabulatures in the past. Please think about my wish and excuse my bad English :-) Stefan1951Stefan1951 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 11:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Don't do that. It is inappropriate.Galassi 01:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

you make advertising for guitar pro and other programs, but when a little privat musicteacher wants to put a link for a small site (with very good information... ask any musizian or guitar player about polyphone tabulatures) to this please.... don´t do that, forbidden, inappropriate

however i will NOT do that. goodbye S.B.S.B. = Stefan1951 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 08:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Stop spamming, or you will be banned.Galassi 14:53, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

IMO it's rather a shame it wasn't included, the link is now down. As a professional guitarist I would have been interested in seeing these. Also the coment regarding inclusion of other programs is valid - although I've just removed most of the SmartScore spam, which incidently, was added by the president of the company that produces it. RichardJ Christie (talk) 01:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to Read Guitar Tabs

Evbro (talk) 23:08, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

monkfunk (talk) 14:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)