Talk:Tōdai-ji

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Tōdai-ji was (or will be) featured on the Architecture Portal as Selected article during week 8 of 2007. For more information or to participate, visit WikiProject:Architecture

Name is redundant (Temple = ji). Anyone care to move to Todaiji? Story I heard about hair is that it's snails, which crawled onto the historical Buddha's head to keep him cool while he meditated in the heat.

Reputedly the largest wooden building in the world... That honor, I'm afraid, actually goes to a dirigible hanger in Tillamook, Oregon. --Calton 15:44, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • Well, the Guinness Book of Records gives Woolloomooloo Bay Wharf, Sydney, Australia the honour [1]. As usual, it's probably a case of how your define "largest" for buildings.--Malcohol 10:33, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Yeah, I think we should move it.

I agree. 'ji' means temple, so it's redundant. And I just think "The Todaiji" sounds better, and more accurate. Also, is anybody interested in adding to the history of this structure? I know it was destroyed in the Genpei Wars, as was the Daibutsu inside. The article seems to indicate as though it has never been destroyed nor rebuilt... If no one else wants to, I suppose I could add things, but...

  • I'll see if I've any details on it at home (I picked up a handful of stuff at the tourist office in Nara, so there's got to be something in there). But if you want to add details to the history of the temple, by all means do so. If you're unsure whether people will believe you, cite your sources. Oh yes, and I agree with the move proposal. Average Earthman 11:26, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The meaning of a Japanese suffix is not particularly relevant. What we need to look at is how it would be best understood in English, and "Tojaiji temple" is often used in English. Literature handed out on-site isn't particularly relevant to answering that question; if you are there, you will know from various other ways that what you are looking at is a religious ediface, without having to have it spelled out in the name. It's different here. Gene Nygaard 20:43, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Below are some Google tests I just performed. (I've used Nara, Todaiji's location, to exclude random occurences). There are certainly plenty of references to Todaiji which don't use the term temple, and plenty (although not as many) which do. I'm suprised to see so many occurences of Todai-ji. I do see your point about what a Wikipedia user would expect. --Malcohol 09:32, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      1. 23,600 for Todai-ji Nara
      2. 16,800 for Todai-ji Temple Nara
      3. 16,700 for Todaiji Nara
      4. 11,800 for Todaiji Temple Nara
      5. 7,940 for "Todaiji Temple" Nara
      6. 6,120 for Todai Temple Nara
      7. 830 for "Todai-ji Temple" Nara
      8. 276 for "Todai Temple" Nara
  • Not that it's a terribly big deal now, but it's only natural that when you add a term to a google search that you will recieve fewer hits. It would be impossible for "Todai-ji Temple Nara" to have more hits than "Todai-ji Nara". Seems like a bit of a rigged test to me. In any case, "Todai-ji" is still the proper name for the article, if for no other reason than it follows the standard set for such articles as Kiyomizu-dera and Hōryū-ji. -- Exitmoose 01:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 23:18, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The usage "Todai-ji" is now the accepted format among writers and translators dealing with Japan, and although I am not fond of it, it is perhaps best to accept the convention. Iwanafish, Nara.

[edit] Mysteries

Rename it the "mystery temple" and let us try to solve the mystery of why the normal rules of mathematics are suspended there. How, if the Buddha contains 440 kg of gold and 499 "tons" (whatever they are) of copper, does the total weight get to be "250 tons"?

>> The metal is used for coating, not for the actual buddha. Duh.

What are " balls whose diameter are 18 cm and whose height are 30 cm each"? To me, balls are round objects. Spheres. Same height as diameter. Gene Nygaard 20:32, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Shinto Buddhism?

Changed "Shinto Buddism(sic)" to Shinto. Shinto and Buddhism have been linked from time to time in history, (see Shinbutsu Shugo) but Shinto is definitely not a form of Buddhism. Tallasse 02:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deer not afraid of humans

Is it relevant that the deer are not afraid? It somehow gives the wrong impression, they can be quite intimidating demanding food and snapping ladies handbags. Grmf 12:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pillar photo in the gallery

For some odd reason, the photo in the gallery of someone crawling through the pillar doesn't display properly. I've removed it until someone can find the reason and fix the problem. -- Exitmoose 01:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I've tried it in Firefox and Internet Explorer and it works in both. Maybe it was a temporary glitch, or maybe the problem has been solved? I've put the photo back. Let us know if it doesn't work for your browser. Fg2 07:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro and History

Some notes and thoughts:

Intro: re: Sika Deer Not to say there is anything wrong with this statement itself at all, it may find a better place to fit itself in than here. eg. Nara Park, Kasuga Shrine. Left for the moment, but with a small question mark to see it especially in the top intro of a Buddhist temple article.

History: re: Emperor Shomu's "law" Can "ordinance" instead of "law" sound better for this context?

History: re: Number of people involved - 2.6 Million? It's not in legend, it is documented. Some redundancy around the mention of this figure is removed. The estimate of total population of that time needs some citation, which was not provided, therefore removed; besides, judging whether the number is exaggerated or not should be left open to the readers or historians, unless another citation on such comment is available.

History: Kuninaka-no-muraji Kimimaro He may merit his own article page, as being a prominent sculptor of this period, than only occupying a full line or two inside the body text of this article. --OhMyDeer 19:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Another couple of points: It claims to be largest wooden structure in the world but no dimensions are given. We need a WxLxH and area. also if there is debate about if it is the biggest: some background.

The stuff about the daibutsu dominates n article which is supposed to be about the architecture. This could do with a separate wiki article? In that also the Japanese "daibutsu" should have a literal English translation to make its significance clear i.e. big buddha

I added the photo of the South Gate as part of a traditional garden to underscore the point that the temple is part of a greater community visually. Iwanafish,Nara.

[edit] Daibutsu (big buddha) weight is weigh off!

The weight appears to be wrong and an arbitrary estimate by the author. This source put it at 25 tonnes

http://www.pref.nara.jp/nara_e/area01/index.html

Nobody knows I suspect so I suggest it is not included as the Todai-ji home page doesn't seem to have it either (because of course nobody knows, although I'm sure a team from Kyoto University will spend billions of yen and waste ten years to find out the truth). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.20.89.143 (talk) 16:29, August 30, 2007 (UTC)