Talk:Szmul Zygielbojm

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I am virtually certain that Zygielbojm self-immolated himself, and added this pertinent information to the article. Please do not remove this information without an explanation. Dr. Dan 15:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I've never heard about Zygielbojm's self-immolation and, to be honest, it seems anachronistic. (Was self-immolation known in the West in 1943?) Every source I've consulted says that he turned on the gas in his flat. For example, from the third external link in the article:

On 12 May 1943, he committed suicide in London by turning on the gas in his apartment.

Or his obituary, on this site. (Granted, it doesn't mention gas, but I would imagine that (a) one who self-immolates wouldn't be found "almost unconscious" and rushed to the hospital and (b) such an unusual method of suicide would have been considered news-worthy.) Do any sources indicate that Zygielbojm's suicide was by self-immolation? Malik Shabazz 19:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Maybe there's some confusion; immolation is usually used for sacrivice by burning, but can be used for sacrifice in general. http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/immolation Gzuckier 19:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps, but the Wiki article to which Dr. Dan linked seems very specific about killing oneself by fire. In any event, unless it can be shown that Zygielbojm's suicide was by fire, why confuse the matter? Malik Shabazz 23:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to remove the reference to self-immolation until Dr. Dan or somebody else can find something that indicates Zygielbojm's suicide was by other means that gassing himself. Malik Shabazz 01:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His suicide

Here it is said: "The well-known Bundist activist Shmuel Mordechai Zigelboim committed suicide on May 1, 1943, on the threshold of the British Parliament building in London." [1]

Austerlitz -- 88.72.3.203 19:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
It is probably a misunderstanding. There is no question that Zygielbojm died in his London apartment. Here's a copy of his obituary.
The source is a "Yizkor book", a volume published by survivors of the Holocaust, based on their memories. Typically such a book was published by landsmanshaftn, a group of people who lived in a particular town, in this case by the "Association of Former Residents of Rokitno and its Vicinity in Israel".
They may have heard or read of the message from Leon Feiner in the Warsaw Ghetto to Zygielbojm and other Jewish leaders: "Tell them to go to all the important English and American offices and agencies. Tell them not to leave until they obtain guarantees that a way has been decided upon to save the Jews. Let them accept no food or drink, let them die a slow death while the world is looking on. Let them die. This may shake the conscience of the world." Perhaps somebody interpreted Zygielbojm's suicide as a literal fulfillment of Feiner's request, thinking that he died at one of "the important English and American offices and agencies".
I wish my Ivrit were better so I could understand the rest of the BBS page. :-( — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 19:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Currently the infobox states he confessed Judaism. However, he was as leftist as a Bundist can be, which makes me ask if there's any proof he was indeed Jewish by faith. //Halibutt 21:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

When I edited the infobox, I tried to avoid the question by saying Zygielbojm's religion was Jewish instead of Judaism.
This is a tough issue. There is no question that Zygielbojm was Jewish and that the Jewish people were his highest concern. He seems to have come from a religious background, but his religious instruction (kheder) ended when he was 10. I haven't read anything that suggests he observed Jewish law.
I think most secular Jews (a category that presumably includes Zygielbojm) consider being Jewish an ethnicity. But the choices in the infobox are "nationality" or "religion".
I think I'll ask the editors at Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism for their thoughts. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 23:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
That's precisely my concern. Back then roughly 75% of Jewish children in Poland started their education in Jewish schools, usually ran by religious communities. However, it does not mean that all of them were religious people. Anyway, for the time being I removed the {{dubious}} tag and changed "religion=" parameter to "nationality=". Let's see what the guys at WP:Judaism say. //Halibutt 12:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)