Talk:Symphony No. 8 (Bruckner)

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Is there any reason this article should stay a stub now? It seems to be pretty substantial. Andrewski 22:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Bruckner said the coda was inspired by the climax of the Dutchman's monologue in Wagner's Der fliegende Hollander, with the words, "Ihr welten endet euren lauf, ewige vernichtung, nimm mich auf!". (Added to article by Nobs01)

This is the first time I hear of this. (I'm no Bruckner scholar, but I've read all the 'standard' biographies available in English). Del arte 19:32, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Including Simpson? (I think it's Robert Simpson), probably the most authoritive. nobs 19:44, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Robert Simpson wrote The Essence of Anton Bruckner. It has a quick biographical sketch and a chapter on each of the Symphonies 1 - 9. In the chapter on Symphony No. 8 he makes a big deal about Bruckner flattening the main theme out to a rhythm for the climax, but I don't recall that chapter even mentioning Wagner.

The thing about Simpson, though, is that he's more interested in detailing tonal relationships in Bruckner's work than in pointing out Wagner references. Del arte 20:09, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Simpson wrote another book on Bruckner's work (just had the title a moment ago). There was a biography published, I thought it was Simpson, by someone who as a child met Bruckner. The bio opens with "Anton Bruckner ate at my house!" Bruckner had once been a dinner guest. nobs 20:21, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's Simpson. The later half of the book discusses some of the problems and how to fix them. For example, he describes the coda to the 3rd as Bruckner driving a bulldozer, then encounters a baricade, Bruckner gets off the Bulldozer, looks around, then gets back on. The biographer says Bruckner should just drive the bulldozer through the baricade. nobs 20:41, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't share Del arte's skepticism about the Hollander reference, but I do want some clarification. By "the coda", are you referring to the first movement coda of the 1887 or the 1890 version? (I am skeptic about the "out-Beethoven Beethoven" line you added to the article about Bruckner, however). Robert Happelberg 21:20, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes first movement. The original version, which I thought was actually 1882 or 1884; but the idea is upheld in Novak's and all other subsequent editions. nobs 22:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Popular reception

The article currently says:

this symphony has arguably done more to win Bruckner's music a strong position in the symphonic repertoire - with both musical intellectuals and the general public - than any of his other works, even the Seventh and Ninth symphonies.

Is this someone's opinion or are there survey numbers to back this up? Anton Mravcek 00:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm moving the entire paragraph to the talk page -- seems like original research to me:

Indeed, it could be said fairly of this movement that it contains as much contrapuntal ingenuity as its counterpart in the Fifth symphony, though the contrast between fugue and chorale is less marked or obvious and more refined. The way in which the symphony as a whole is integrated is considerably more sophisticated than in the Fifth, though the indications are that Bruckner's Ninth symphony had greater ambitions still. However, unfortunately the composer did not live to complete the monumental Finale of this later work, and the Eighth symphony remains his last completed symphony, and the best testament to Bruckner's ideal of the symphony. Though Bruckner's music remains, curiously enough, controversial amongst musicologists and the listening public (and opinions are often correspondingly polarised), this symphony has arguably done more to win Bruckner's music a strong position in the symphonic repertoire - with both musical intellectuals and the general public - than any of his other works, even the Seventh and Ninth symphonies.Grover cleveland 00:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)