Talk:Symphony No. 3 (Mahler)

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I think it's interesting to note that, sometime in the 1970s, two amateur orchestra/chorus combinatins in San Diego, California--The San Diego Community Orchestra and chorus from San Diego Mesa College and the orchestra and chorus from the music department at the Universigy of California at San Diego--once combined forces for a single reading of Mahler's 3rd. I played string bass (Community Orchestra) at this reading. I fell in love with the work and it is still one of my favorites. Too bad we never carried through with a concert. Rsduhamel 22:34, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The sixth movement is well...amazing!
Yes, it definitely is, very sweeping and emotional. -- Andy W. (talk/contrb.) 17:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Orchestration

I updated the orchestration section to great detail. I have the score for reference. Justin Tokke 04:34, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

A recent edit at 11:48, 12 September 2006 by Rsholmes is weird. Some instruments are capitalized while others are not. They are either all lower case or all capitalized (what Mr. Tokke recommends). The edit should be reverted or progressed further. Any comments?A Wang (talk/contrb.) 21:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I suggest all capitals because that is what the score indicates. All instruments are capitalized except two-word instruments like "English horn" where "horn" is not capitalized. I will change it back the way it was. Justin Tokke 23:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Longest of all symphonies?

Not that I’d want them to be known for their length, but there is at least one, if not a few, longer... Schissel‐bowl listen 03:56, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I've removed the comment that it is "the longest of all symphonies". I admit I can't think of a longer one myself (out of interest, what is it that you're thinking of?), but the problem is we can't really know whether it's true or not unless one of us knows every single symphony ever composed by everyone ever (I, at least, do not). --Camembert

I certainly don't, though I know everything about every other field. Hrmph. *vbg* Brian's Gothic sym is as long, I believe and I wouldn't be surprised if one of Sorabji's two orchestral syms will prove longer in performance. (And I wouldn't like them - one of them I know, the other not so - to be known leave alone foremost for such Gu. Book trivia either..) Schissel : bowl listen 01:16, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

The Bruckener 8th Symphony, depending on the recording (Munich Phil live 12-13/9/93 EMI CD 5566962 ................. 104:13) can be around 1hour 40 minutes.
I've read somewhere that Guinness names this as the longest regularly performed symphony. Alcuin 19:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The longest known symphony, when last I heard, was Richard Rodgers' symphonic arrangement of his film music Victory at Sea, which totals at about thirteen hours. I believe you can look it up on the Guinness World Records website. -- 5-27-06

It is the longest Symphony in the standard repertoire for orchestras. There are absolutely crazy long symphonies, but they are never performed as a whole or on a concert. They are performed on special occasions or in parts. This one, Mahler's third, usually amounts to 100 mins. or more (1 hr and 40 mins.). I have the Philharmonia recording and Benjamin Zander, the director, does mention this topic to quite detail in the commentary. Justin Tokke 04:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources Needed

I have seen this piece of music performed live 3 times (Lucerne Festival Orchestra, New York Philharmonic, and Boston Symphony Orchestra). In these 3 performances and the numerous DVD performances that I have seen, never have I seen a flugel horn used to substitute for the posthorn. Can anyone cite a performance by a major orchestra who used a flugel horn in place of the posthorn?

OK, if no one objects, I am going to be deleting the "posthorn solo usually played on flugel horn" bit (as it is incorrect information). I'll give it another day before I do. --Sully2302 23:37, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The Horenstein recording uses flügelhorn, but it's not at all a common substitution...although rumor has it that the first edition of the score lists flügelhorn rather than posthorn. I've not seen it, though. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 11:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I think I've seen this but I'm not sure it's the original first edition. I'll look into it.Justin Tokke 19:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, this needs some serious clarification (orchestration section), as it only makes sense to trumpet players: "4 Trumpets in F, B-flat (2 or more high parts may be reinforced with E-flat Trumpets.)" Again, in all of the performances I have seen of Mahler 3 that I can recall, the entire trumpet section was using C rotary trumpets except for trumpet 1 who I have seen use Eb in place of or in addition to C. I would propose changing this to: 4 trumpets, in F and B-flat (usually played on C or Eb rotary trumpets) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sully2302 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

No! This is not what is in the score. The usage of transpositions unwritten my Mahler varies from player to player. If a trumpetist wants to play an F Trumpet part on an E or even D-flat Trumpet, it's up to the player. Unwritten doublings should not be written for this reason. Justin Tokke 19:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Justin for the input. So would you agree with me that the part in the instrumentation section, "2 or more parts may be reinforced with Eflat trumpets" is cumbersome and unnecessary"? --Sully2302 21:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
No. This is actually written in the score.Justin Tokke 15:12, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Structure

I changed "What God tells me" back to "What Love tells me". Afaik God is completely out of place here. It has been introduced by an ip, reverted by user Andy_M._Wang, but then strangely reverted back by the same user!? I could not find any trace in a talk page why user Andy_M._Wang has been convinced that God is appropriate. Brontosaurus (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 21:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I can accept. Sorry if I messed up on all of that. Thanks for that note. — Andy W. (talk/contrb.) 22:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)