Talk:Symphony No. 1 (Havergal Brian)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Symphony No. 1 (Havergal Brian) article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	Symphony No. 1 (Havergal Brian) is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, cleanup, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that aren't covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
	This article is supported by the Compositions task force.

[edit] Bird scare

In the orchestration section, is the "bird scare" the bird-scaring rattle? A. Wang ^{(talk/contrb.)} 18:10, 28 December 2005 (UTC) I think I'll change it. A. Wang ^{(talk/contrb.)} 21:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

It seems strange that it would be the klopotec. I will revert. A. Wang ^{(talk/contrb.)} 21:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

• The instrument Havergal Brian calls a "bird scare" is the louder variety of ratchet used by mad football fans and referred to as a football rattle. Philip Legge _@ 05:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

In the Cranz score, it is notated as "Scare Crow" which probably refers to the klopotec 72.229.240.25 16:05, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chimes and Tubular bells

What is the difference? On Wikipedia, the terms lead to the same article, Tubular bell. The mention of chimes and tubular bells in the orchestration would be extraneous. I am taking the tubular bells out of the article. Revert if you want. A. Wang ^{(talk/contrb.)} 22:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

This discrepancy may be the result of a previous edit. The published full score (Cranz, 1932) has numerous errors and Brian's specification appears to be "Chimes" as well as several low-tuned bells in C, D, and E; the latter are meant to be specially-cast bells rather than orchestral tubular bells (similar to the low C bell heard in the Witches Sabbath movement of Berlioz's Symphonie fantastique). Several other Brian symphonies (2, 4, and 7) also request specially low-tuned bells, like the "tom" of a church peal, rather than tubular bells. Philip Legge _@ 05:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I have re-instated the distinction. The "chimes" (used exclusively in the Et laudamus section of movement VI) are an octave set from E♭₄ to E♭₅, an instrument at one time (and possibly still) common in military bands. The "tubular bells" (so described—at least according to the Cranz score—i.e. not specially-cast bells) are used in the Sanctus Dominus section of movement IV, and cover the octave from C₃ to C₄. Three of these bells (C₃, D₃ and E₃) turn up again in the "Non confundar" of movement VI, though here they are described (in the Cranz score) simply as "bells" rather than "tubular bells". Is there any positive reason to suppose that the "bells" here are "specially-cast", rather than simply a subset of the "tubular bells" from movement IV? Vilĉjo 23:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)