Talk:Symbols of Scientology

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This article was nominated for deletion on 29 February 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

1 Series Template
2 Location
3 Admitted
4 Links
5 The Sea Org Symbol
6 link [1] is dead ?
7 Scientology Cross
8 Dianetics Symbol
9 OTO and Scientology cross
10 Fair use rationale for Image:Scientologycross.jpg
11 Fair use rationale for Image:Infinity triangle.jpg
12 Fair use rationale for Image:LRH symbol.jpg
13 Fair use rationale for Image:Operating Thetan.gif
14 Should this article be put to sleep?
15 Non-free image threshold

[edit] Series Template

Is there some problem with the way it looks on your screen? It looks fine here (but that may be due to recent template slimming) Ronabop 00:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see it now. On small screens, they run into eachother. Yanking unless I find a fix. Ronabop 00:45, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location

I think it would look better if the images were each next to their description, instead of in a gallery. On the other hand, I don't want to "be bold" when it comes to an article whose sister pages tend to be controversial to edit -- could someone who is more familiar with this page do the moving for me or else explain why they should not be moved? --M @r ē ino 22:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Lol, not to worry too much, the chocolate fairy will visit anyway. Terryeo 04:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Admitted

The CST section states, Former Church member Michael Pattinson has admitted the circles are intended as signposts for reincarnated.. which of course is perfectly good newspaper or google group reporting but "admitted" is a bias kind of word. "Stated" would be more encyclopedic. Terryeo 00:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

The first link present in the article [1] is dead, it won't come up for me. Of course any number of things might cause that.Terryeo 00:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

A suggested link: This link [2] might be a reasonable link to include because that site spells out the offical capacity of the Religious Technology Center, provides authentications from various countries, shows the symbols in an official way, etc.Terryeo 00:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Sea Org Symbol

The article presently states: This symbol originated in Operating Thetan level III, the Xenu story, as a symbol representing the Galactic Confederation of 75 million years ago. That is inaccurate, though there is a nugget of real information within it. No reference is given so I'll supply a reference with two quotes. Terryeo 17:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

1. The Sea Org symbol adopted and used as the symbol of a Galactic Confederacy far back in the history of this sector (of our galaxy) derives much of its power and authority from the association. The laurel wreath represents victory, Used throught the history of this planet (Earth) to crown poets, artists, champions and conquerers. (p.467) Terryeo 17:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
2. The star is the confederation and each one of those leaves is counted, its the number of stars. From Modern Management Technology Defined p.467, pub. Publications Organization, 1967 printing, ISBN 0-88404-040-2. Terryeo 17:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
So, the symbol is adopted from the Galactic Confederacy, according to Hubbard but no mention of when the symbol was used by that organization is mentioned. It clearly did not originate as the article presently says it did, nor is there any mention of any individual's name, nor any mention of a particular time. Terryeo 17:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Could the article please represent the symbols in manners which can be referenced? I'm particularly vexed by this sea org symbol thing because while "the Galactic Federation" might or might not exist / have existed, the time frame which the article presents is simply not the time frame which Scientology states, associated with "the Galactic Federation". Instead of a symbol representing peace and power, the article presents it as a symbol based on a myth which Scientology doesn't document or comment on. Terryeo 22:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] link [1] is dead ?

The link seems to be dead, doesn't come up for me, anyway. In addition, the Dianetics symbol, the green triangle, has some interesting original research. User:David Gerard has informed us what the horizontally striped green symbol reminds him of: "The triangle is also reminiscent of the volcano present on post-1968 editions of the book Dianetics", says David Dianetics symbol - the volcano, of course. However, WP:NOR applies and David's remininiscents shouldn't be included in the article. Terryeo 17:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scientology Cross

This symbol is mainly used to specifically denote the Church of Scientology, and may or may not represent the practice of Scientology in general. The RTC probably does not see a difference between the two. says the article. Two points:

Is there a documentation which says that any Scientology organization uses the symbol in any way other than to represent the Church of Scientology?
Where does the RTC [3] say that they don't see a difference between the two? Alternatively, is there some other source of information (not referenced in the article yet) which states, "The RTC probably doesn't see a difference between the two" ?

I would say the first sentence might read: "This symbol is used by the Church of Scientology to represent the religion. The RTC [4]] oversees the use of this symbol." Terryeo 21:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dianetics Symbol

The triangle is also reminiscent of the volcano present on post-1968 editions of the book Dianetics (see Xenu) and in advertising for Dianetics since that time. says the article. Yet there is no indication that information has ever been published. In whose mind does such a reminiscence reside? WP:V applies, apparently it is a single editor's original research as it is stated. Terryeo 22:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OTO and Scientology cross

Please note that at this page the claim that the Rose Cross on the back of the cards of the Thoth tarot is "the OTO cross" is completely spurious--this symbol has never been officially associated with the OTO by the OTO--the symbol is simply the Rose Cross of the Rosicrucians (more technically, the image is the Golden Dawn's image of the Rose Cross) and has never to my knowledge been portrayed as an OTO symbol--on the back of the Thoth tarot, the image was simply used as a generic mystical symbol. The only cross ever officially used by the OTO was the Baphomet cross of Crowley, which looks nothing like this. --Jackhorkheimer 02:45, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Scientologycross.jpg

Image:Scientologycross.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 21:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Infinity triangle.jpg

Image:Infinity triangle.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:LRH symbol.jpg

Image:LRH symbol.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Operating Thetan.gif

Image:Operating Thetan.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Should this article be put to sleep?

An article about the symbols of Scientology without any symbols seems quite useless. Now that it's been damaged by the removal of the images, does this article have a reason for continued existence? AndroidCat (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Not really. The images are really only fair use in articles about that specific topic. Any discussion of symbolism is best discussed and kept to that particular article about that organization. E.g. - discuss the symbol for the Sea Org in the article Sea Org, not in a list of symbols. I see no problem with deleting this, nothing would be lost as the info should just be merged/discussed in each relevant article. Cirt (talk) 20:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free image threshold

Doesn't adding the non-free Scientology symbol run it over the limit for uses in articles? AndroidCat (talk) 04:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I still don't really understand what you are talking about...but my knowlage of image rules is limited at best so I will trust that using the scientology symbol that is allowed in the Scientology article isn't allowed in other articles for some reason.Coffeepusher (talk) 18:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)