Talk:Symbionese Liberation Army

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is not a forum for general discussion of Symbionese Liberation Army. Any such messages will be deleted. Please limit discussion to improvement of the article.

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject California (Rated b-Class) This article is part of WikiProject California, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as b-Class on the quality scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale. WikiProject Crime     (Rated B-Class) Criminal justice Portal This article is part of WikiProject Crime, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide on true crime and criminology-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as b-class on the assessment scale. Low This article is on a subject of low-importance for crime-related articles. WikiProject Crime To-do: edit  Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Criminal Biography: Requests: Magdalena Solis, Justina Morley, Impersonating an officer, List of major crimes in the United States, Shanghai Kelly, Tucker Prison Farm, Kendall Francois, Purgatory Correctional Facility Expand: Credit card fraud, Theresa Knorr, Marybeth Tinning, Brenda Ann Spencer, Lords of Chaos (self-styled teen militia), Stubs: Calling card (crime), Federal crime, Leslie Irvin (serial killer), Violent crime, Crime Classification Manual, Anthony Sawoniuk Perfect crime Images: Charles Ray Hatcher, Thor Nis Christiansen, Richard Cottingham, Caleb Fairley San Francisco Bay Area WikiProject     (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of the San Francisco Bay Area WikiProject, a collaborative effort to build a more detailed guide on Wikipedia's coverage of San Francisco and the Bay Area. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. B This article has been rated as b-class on the quality scale. Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale. Military history WikiProject     (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (nations and regions): United States military history task force WikiProject Terrorism (Rated b-Class) This page is within the scope of WikiProject Terrorism, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects. If you would like to participate, you can improve the article attached to this page, or visit the project page. B This article has been rated as b-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) Archives SLA- Archive 1

Contents 1 The Bonnot Gang 2 Camilla (and Nancy): armed/unarmed? 3 Healthy Skepticism of Hearst 4 Infobox headers 5 Symbiowhat? 6 Language 7 Fair use rationale for Image:Timehearst.jpg 8 Hibernia Bank Robbery 9 "Recent Trials" section needs correcting

[edit] The Bonnot Gang

It may just be my fancy, but I'd like to work in a link to the Bonnot gang, who I think were similar in style to the SLA. They were politicals/revolutionaries who robbed banks, used the technology of the times to advantage (The Bonnot Gang used cars to escape, the SLA manipulated the media), and both were decimated by bloddy police shoot-outs. Any comments, am I taking this too far? An An 04:44, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Camilla (and Nancy): armed/unarmed?

Right now the section about the shootout says

One woman came out to surrender and the police shot her in the head.

This doesn't jibe with the page on Camilla Hall, which states that

Camilla died in a shootout (May 17, 1974, 9 000 rounds fired) with police in which five other SLA members were killed. Reportedly, she was shot in the head while charging the police with a pistol.

So which is it? Did the police shoot an unarmed woman who was trying to surrender, or an armed one who was charging them? This is significant, especially given what the police are quoted as saying a few sentences earlier. ("Come on out! The house is on fire! You will not be harmed.")

Note: The page on Nancy Ling Perry adds this, which contradicts the "one woman" part above. Hmph.

As the their hideout burned, Perry and fellow SLA member Camilla Hall exited the back door. Police claimed that Perry came out firing a revolver while Hall fired an automatic pistol. Police shot them both immediately. Perry was shot twicel; one shot hit her right lung, the other shot severing her spine. Hall was shot once in the forehead. Investigators working for her parents claimed that Perry had come walking out of the house intending to surrender.

--Ultra Megatron 02:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

There appear to be stories. Impossible from here to know which is correct. Both should probably be included. Justforasecond 18:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Healthy Skepticism of Hearst

I'm certainly not going to act as an apologist for the SLA but...

In the conditions of captivity section (especially) and in some other places there were some disputable claims regarding Hearst's captivity that were treated as facts. I've tried to `correct those by adding "Hearst claims..." and such.

Also, there were some rather strange remarks that didn't seem to serve any purpose beyond making the SLA seem really, really bad. The line, for example, that claimed DeFreeze was "remorseless" regarding the killings during the Hibernia bank and that he "rationalized" them as "accidents" in the communique. I've heard the communique: While it may be fair to describe the tone as "remorseless" it's certainly dangerously close to editorializing, no? Further, he doesn't exactly "rationalize" them as "accidents." First, "rationalize" like "remorseless" smacks of editorializing. Second, "accidents" implies they didn't mean to shoot them. DeFreeze makes clear that their intent was to shoot the victims and he coldly lays out why.

Finally, it doesn't seem fair to suddenly start using "Tania" for Hearst's name in the discussion of her crimes. While her "Tania" identity has been established earlier in the article, it seems confusing to suddenly start using it for just one section.

I think that covers the edits I made.

Nicks1199 23:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I pretty much agree with your edits, except for the SLA's claim that the conditions of Hearst's captivity were in accordance with the Geneva Conventions; it's not a POV statement for the entry to point out that this claim was untenable.--Galliaz 00:34, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox headers

Three items in the box strike me as problematic: (1) Listing the SLA's "Role" as "Guerilla Warfare," (2) including a listing for "Battles/Wars," and (3) omitting the Hearst kidnapping. I would list the SLA's role as "Armed Political Action," and replace "Battles/Wars" with "Activities," and include the Hearst kidnapping. It is profoundly mistaken to describe the assassination of the two unarmed school administrators as a "battle."--Galliaz 12:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Even though my initial query received no response, I still think this is quite a serious problem which mars the entry. Since I can't edit the infobox without breaking it (which I'd rather not do, of course), I'd appreciate a good-faith engagement with the questions I've raised here.--Galliaz 22:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The Hearst kidnapping has been added and the I added a field to the infobox template to make the label an editable field. I used the word "actions" which I think sounds better than "Activities,". As for changing SLA's role from "Guerilla Warfare," to "Armed Political Action,": I don't think "Armed Political Action," goes far enough but I would comprise if you have another term between "Guerilla Warfare," and "Armed Political Action," -- Esemono 01:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with you: finding an alternative to "Guerilla Warfare" is pretty difficult. I vote to keep it as it is.--Galliaz 02:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Symbiowhat?

Is "symbionese" a proper English adjective to "symbiosis", or wasn't it freely invented where the proper word is "symbiotic"? Oh, those revolutionaries!
If so I think that ought to be mentioned in the article. Maikel 08:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Language

"Foster, an African American, was popular on the left and in the black community, and his murder was unanimously viewed as counterproductive; " Dont think this is appropriate, what murder would the author have viewed as productive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.43.217.25 (talk) 16:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed; that language suggests that some murders are productive. I'll remove the whole second part of that sentence ("... and his murder was unanimously viewed as counterproductive; thus, the S.L.A. garnered no support from that event.") The word "unanimously" is misused anyway, unless there was a survey I don't know about. Gingerwiki 21:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Timehearst.jpg

Image:Timehearst.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hibernia Bank Robbery

The article linked to the Hibernia National Bank for the Hibernia Bank robbery, but I think this is wrong; HNB was in Lousiana, while the robbery was in San Francisco; I think they're two different banks (with similar names)! I'm going to remove the link for now, unless someone can confirm I'm way off. Laser813 (talk) 05:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

No, Laser183, you are right. The Hibernia Bank that was robbed was headquartered in San Francisco. It later merged into Security Pacific National Bank in 1988. See the 79th Annual Report of the California Superintendent of Banks. Interstate banking was not permitted until the Riegle-Neal Act of 1994, so it would not have been possible for it to have been HNB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pchas (talk • contribs) 19:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Recent Trials" section needs correcting

Paragraphs 1 and 6 in the "Recent Trials" section contain contradictory information about Sarah Jane Olson (date of release, length of sentence, etc.)199.89.170.92 (talk) 17:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)