Talk:Swung note

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 It is requested that one or more audio files be included in this article to improve its quality.

Please see Wikipedia:Requested recordings for more on this request.



Contents

[edit] Swing rhythm

Please see Talk:Swing rhythm. Andrewa 19:52, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed

I removed the following as it spends a great deal of time describing the quarter note pulse established by the bass or kick drum and the backbeat played by the snare and very little time explaining the triplet rhythm that is the shuffle rhythm. Hyacinth 10:52, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Shuffle

The shuffle rhythm is a rhythm that can be regarded as the basis of the blues backbeat, and can be heard on many jazz, rock and roll and soul music recordings.

The beat can be seen as consisting of four triplets per bar, with the first and third notes of each triplet being sounded. When played on a drum kit, this triplet rhythm is typically played as an ostinato on the high hats or ride cymbal. At the same time, a kick drum beat is sounded on the first beat of the bar snare drum beat is sounded on the first note of the second triplet.

If this description is too theoretical, borrow your dad's copy of That'll Be The Day by Buddy Holly and the Crickets, or Green Onions, and try tapping along to the Da-di-Da-di rhythm going on in the background - if this works, you're halfway to shuffling!

Among the most expert exponents of the rhythm is session drummer Bernard Purdie, who can be heard shuffling, among other things, as drummer for Aretha Franklin.

[edit] Swing

Why isn't this page at Swing (music)? Hyacinth 12:02, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

It would need some rewriting, but I think that's exactly where it should be. It's where both German and French Wikipedias put it... admittedly, far shorter articles. But neither even mentions a swung note, and no muso I've asked (including many professionals, both Jazz and otherwise) has ever heard of a swung note. Frankly, the current setup makes English Wikipedia a laughingstock. We should certainly retain the material on swung note, but we shouldn't redirect swing time etc to an article by that name. Perhaps I'll have another go at fixing it... I tried once before. Andrewa (talk) 18:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hip hop?

There is a list of music styles that sometimes or always use swung notes, and hip hop isn't on the list, even though hip hop often times uses a swung beat. Would it be a legitimate thing to add?

-- eyebrowsoffire

[edit] What classical musicians prefer

Regarding this recent addition to the transcription section:

In general, where music with a swing metre is required, musicians in the jazz tradition will prefer to read music written in common time and played with a swing, while musicians in the classical tradition will prefer to read music written in compound time and played as written.

My experience as a classical conductor is that pretty much all musicians understand the concept of swing and can apply it as needed (if not as well as experienced jazz players), so "prefer" seems a little strong. Transcriptions in triplets or 12/8 are pretty much just for beginners. —Wahoofive (talk) 04:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "played as written" ?

I just wanted to toss in a note here: most of the jazzfolk with whom I've interacted would disagree that "played as written" is an accurate way to describe "swing time" transcribed into sets of triplets or as standard measures in compound meter. Besides the problem of the natural stresses being quite different (which has been noted in another discussion hereabouts), it's also just not true that the rhythmic proportions of a "swing beat" and a classical "compound beat" are identical. That last, accented segment of the divided beat in swing doesn't really receive a neatly-divided 33-and-1/3 percent of the total beat duration, as is intended in a classical compound beat. If it's played that way - "as written" - it doesn't swing, even if the accent is correctly placed. The true "swung" note feels a bit "delayed" to the classical musician - as if it's outside the regular metrical division... which it actually is.

Discipulus Orbis Terrarum 21:21, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

You are partially correct, however, see Swung note#Amount of swing. Hyacinth 17:35, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'd read that section and a number of linked articles as well; I still feel that the words I mentioned are misleading. Swing does indeed have many variants along a wide spectrum, but, as I was taught, none of these is truly equivalent to compound rhythm played as written in the classical sense. What we would consider true compound rhythm is rather like an excluded middle point to the graph of swing, precisely because it's the middle point; it's too balanced, too symmetrical, whereas the whole push of swing rhythm is to unbalance. Discipulus Orbis Terrarum 19:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Development

  • "Early blues was often accompanied by a band playing in 12/8 within which the singer, who generally exercised great rhythmic freedom, often accented notes other than the beat. Some argue that this, combined with the persistent offbeat accents of ragtime, may have led to swing rhythms pervading early jazz. Such 'structural' theories of swing's origin are dubious, though, since the feeling of swing can't be approximated by any particular arrangement of note values in western music notation."

I removed the above from the article as we need some sources. Hyacinth 17:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)