Talk:Sutton & Mole Valley Lines

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The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:Sutton & Mole Valley Line.

The article as originally written falls into the trap set for many of these lines - namely that is a railway line in its own right. It is not a railway line - as can be seen from the map I have now put as the External link - but simply the name given by the Southern to describe the services on the route, which services run from London to Horsham, with a branch to Epsom Downs. There is a distinct connection with the Arun Valley Line, since the original openings were from London through Epsom, Dorking, and Horsham to Shoreham-by-Sea - part of which is the Arun Valley Line. This is the problem with not looking at the history of the line, I'm afraid.

Incidentally, the timetable listing calls it the S&MV LINE, not Lines, which is why I have moved it.

I have also included the section from London Bridge (on which there was a query), which can be seen from the Southern map, is very much part of the Line. Peter Shearan 08:55, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Map

I have removed the 'mapneeded=yes' from the TrainsWikiProject tag, as this article clearly has a map (of sorts!). I have to confess, that whilst I am pleased to see a map, I am less than pleased to see a map that I find confusing. I am sure that we can do better. The "dotty" lines factor is way to high, and we need to reduce it (in my view). Canterberry 22:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map modiciations

I presume the line map is showing the through routes that are possible, rather than scheduled - if so then it's my recollection that trains from the Epsom Downs side of Sutton station can ran onto the Carshalton tracks. The reason they aren't normally isn't scheduled (not sure about peak hours) is because it's operationally easier to have trains that terminate at Sutton or Epsom Downs not crossing the other lines if it can be avoided (whereas Epsom to Croydon services have so much demand it's unavoidable).

Also Dorking Deepdene is to all practical extents and purposes a high level street interchange part of Dorking station - I've often had through tickets for it. Should the North Downs Line and Dorking be closer and Deepdene showed?

Is anyone able to modify the map to do this? Timrollpickering 20:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I can modify the map, but it is so badly drawn, that I would need to start afresh. The issue of what the maps show (or do not show) is highly contentious. Suffice it to say, that this map is amongst the worst offenders. Canterberry 01:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I've modified Horsham, so it looks more like the junction station it is rather than two separate station - one being a terminus not linked to the other! (SouthernElectric 20:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC))

I've had a go at redrawing the map, but am still not 100% happy with it. I think that the main problem is that the map drawing template is very good for long-and-thin lines, but unable to cope with short-and-fat networks like the South London Metro. 10:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.72.176 (talk)

[edit] Rewrite?

Taking on board that an up to date service route map is available here, should this article be rewritten so that it reflects the history of the main part of the line (Horsham, Dorking, Sutton etc.), this would also allow the route diagram to be simplified/corrected. Opinions? (SouthernElectric 11:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC))

I suggest that this article is split into two new articles - one for the lines to Sutton (including the Wimbledon Loop , Mitcham Junc and West Croydon lines (The Epsom Downs branch has its own page already)) and the other for the Mole Valley part (including the line from Raynes Park to Epsom, Sutton to Epsom and Leatherhead to Effingham Junc). If I understand the history correctly, the LBSCR and LSWR built a joint line from Epsom to Leatherhead with the intention of the LBSCR running on to Dorking and Horsham and the LSWR running to Guildford via Effingham Junc. (I'm not sure when the Mole Valley Line designation was first used, but I don't remember it appearing before the days of Connex. The line only runs alongside the River Mole between Leatherhead and Dorking, so the name isn't very appropriate anyway.)