Talk:Sushi

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[edit] Archive Created

The talk page was getting pretty long, so I archived it. It didn't look like there were any active discussions going on, so I just put the whole page in the archive. If anyone has any objections or would like to revive a discussion, please accept my apologies and feel free to do so. -Sarfa 17:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Edo-mae" definition

The history section contains this line: "In the early 19th century in Edo, the dish evolved into Edo-mae zushi, which used fish freshly caught in the Edo-mae (Edo Bay)." "Edo-mae" means "in the Edo style." I've scoured my Japanese dictionaries and have found no word for "bay" that is pronounced "mae." I'm thinking about rewriting the whole history section (it desperately needs it) and this is my starting point. Any objections? -Sarfa 21:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Edo-mae (ja:江戸前) originally means "in front of Edo Castle," and thus Tokyo bay from Shinagawa to Fukagawa, Kōtō, Tokyo.
江戸前（えどまえ）とは、
  1. 東京湾で取れた魚介類のこと。元々は品川沖界隈で取れたものをいったが、のちには東京湾で取れたものすべてをいうようになった。（用例：「江戸前の魚」など）
  2. 上方に対して、江戸の流儀、やり方のことをいう。（用例：「江戸前寿司」など）
Edo-mae zushi used fish caught in Edo-mae region of Tokyo bay, that is the origin of the word "Edo-mae nigiri zushi" as a counterpart of Kamigata style sushi such as oshizushi and chakinzushi. Jjok 00:48, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kyubei Restaurant Link

I don't think that a link to Kyubei's website is necessary or permissible per Wikipedia:External links -- the restaurant is not the subject of the article, the website does not add any information not already contained in the article, and the primary purpose of the website is to advertise/sell the restaurant. -Sarfa 00:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

One thing I put the link is since they spell Kyubey instead of Kyubei, it will help find the page easier. However, it is true that the link does not give a good reference about gunkan-maki and I do not have any objection to remove it if it looks more like advertising. Jjok 19:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your understanding. I've removed the external link. I do, however, understand your point about the spelling of the restaurant name and decided that we should probably spell the name of the restaurant as they themselves spell it, so I changed the name from "Kyubei" to "Kyubey". Although I understand that this is not standard Japanese romanization, since this is a proper name I think spelling it this way is fine. Any objections? -Sarfa 17:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I left both since many English articles and blogs use Kyubei, and this may help connect Kyubei and Kyubey. Jjok 17:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etiquette:grade order

I copyedited the grade order to the Japanese usage. Hope you all don't mind. If you have any question, ask me. Oda Mari 08:02, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On the meaning of sushi

Sushi means literally fish delicious, so the comment at the start is misleading. It is true that the sushi preparation has lead to calling sushi other stuff (like norimakisushi rolls of cucumber, for example), but sushi means fish in japanese and I think this should be mentioned at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.238.171.70 (talk)

魚 means fish in Japanese. 寿司 means sushi, and so do 鮨 and 鮓, even if the latter two contain the radical "fish". Granted, 鮨 used to mean some kind of garum, but it no longer means that in 2008. - ∅ (∅), 05:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

http://homepage3.nifty.com/maryy/eng/sushi_kanji.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.238.171.70 (talk)

Semantic shift - ∅ (∅), 05:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I feel that the first two sentences need to be rewritten because they've gotten very awkward. This is what I'm thinking of changing things to -- let me know if anyone has any comments:

In Japanese cuisine, sushi (寿司, 鮨, 鮓, sushi?) is a food made of rice seasoned with vinegar and sugar combined with other, usually uncooked, ingredients, such as fish. Though the original Japanese term 寿司 sushi, written in kanji, means "snack" and refers only to the rice, the word "sushi" in both modern Japanese and English has come to refer to a complete dish with rice and toppings; this is the sense used in this article.[1]

I feel that this helps clean up the sentences a bit and clears up some of the confusion surrounding the traditional vs. modern usage of the word. Any comments before I make the change? -Sarfa 16:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

According to every Japanese definition I can get my hands on, such as Koujien (the Webster/Oxford of Japan), "sushi" does not refer to only the rice, but rather simply a combination of vinegared rice and fish and/or vegetables. Basically the same as the English. This is also confirmed by my everyday grocery shopping at Japanese supermarkets. I deleted the references to sushi meaning "snack" or "only the rice". RabidNelson 06:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I know that modern Japanese does not use the word "sushi" to mean a rice snack (see my above rewrite proposal), but I was assuming that the original author (Jjok?) had knowledge about how the word was used historically that I -- someone with very limited knowledge of historical Japanese -- do not. The OA even cited a source: Barber, Kimiko;Takemura, Hiroki (2002). Sushi: Taste and Technique. DK Publishing. ISBN 0-7894-8916-3. Unless we can verify that the cited source does not substantiate what was originally written, I think we should leave it as is (with some slight rewriting for style purposes). What do you think? -Sarfa 18:21, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shiitake makizushi

Makizushi with shiitake filling shows up on the vegetarian sections of sushi restaurant menus these days; is this traditional or something newly invented? Badagnani (talk) 19:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Soy-dashi-simmered shiitake is a popular ingredient of Futomaki roll and chirashizushi, while personally, I have never seen Hosomaki roll with shiitake as single ingredient or usage of uncooked shiitake. I briefly retrieved "しいたけ寿司"[1], "シイタケ寿司"[2], and "椎茸寿司".[3] Some places serve shiitake nigiri and oshizushi? but I do not know how much popular it is.--Jjok 22:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SushiChart.com external link

I think the URL http://www.sushichart.com/sushichart/ could be added to the external links

It has a list of most of the popular sushi rolls, sortable by ingredients, cooked/raw, spicy/not, fried/not

I find it useful when I am craving a certain kind of sushi ingredient, like salmon, and want to see what kinds of sushi rolls have salmon in them

What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.241.240.204 (talk) 22:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Women sushi chefs

There is a belief that women cannot make sushi because their hands are too cold or too warm or something like that. Does someone know anything about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.216.156.208 (talk) 18:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like folklore bunk. There wouldn't be any sushi made in the home kitchen if this were true, although of course, nigiri usually isn't home cuisine but restaurant food. The reality is that it takes many years to become a (real) sushi chef (in Japan) as an apprentice in an old fashioned hierarchy. Hours are long, and one expects severe humiliation from scolding for the slightest shortcoming. Even as a chef, it takes a lot of stamina and physical endurance to work the kitchen. Actually, that's the common notion for any traditional Japanese food establishment. It's considered too harsh work for a woman, but that doesn't stop the determined modern woman.--67.121.120.67 (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VANDALISM related to Korea

I have noticed some vandalism and it is all related to Korea. For example, instead of saying "outside of Japan, it is understood as the raw fish," it said Korea. The raw fish slices were also called buglogi, which is a beef dish in Korea. REPORT VANDALISM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabouz1 (talk • contribs) 21:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)