Talk:Surviving veterans of World War I/Archive 5

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Harry Patch heart warmer 2 Carmelo Bertolami - no cite? 3 Russell Coffey 4 Archive Volume 4 5 J. Russell Coffey Memorial Service 6 Serioli dead? 7 Bibliography 8 Last German veteran dead 9 Last polish veteran dead 10 Louis de Cazenave & Raymond Cambefort dead 11 Excellent article on William Olin 12 Fate of the remaining veterans 13 Robley H. Rex, died 1/8/2006, age 105s (Still alive and well Dec. 2007) 14 This is a featured list - but I'm curious, what will happen to it once all the veterans are dead? 15 Spanish Civil War (Resurrected in light of recent deaths) 16 Good Daily Mail article 17 Kuntzler 18 "In training" 19 Frank Buckles 20 Turkish Veteran Mentioned; No Further Information 21 Can Anyone Translate This Article Into Foreign (Non - English) Languages? 22 Harry Landis dead, Frank Buckles update - US down to 1 23 Jim Lincoln 24 Mikhail Krichevsky 25 Boris Efimov 26 Russian Veterans 27 Floyd (Skipper) Matthews 28 Some additional references 29 Ponticelli 30 Mistaken Article 31 U.S.A. vs. A.H.E.?

Harry Patch heart warmer

A slightly more unusual activity here, guest of honour at a pub re-opening. Harry Patch is certainly mischievous!

http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/latestheadlines/display.var.1873433.0.last_ww1_survivor_is_guest_of_honour.php

RichyBoy (talk) 10:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

First they call him the last trench veteran and then get his age wrong. The first mistake could be explained by British-centrism, but come on, do your research. Sometimes I wonder why we bother. 80.2.16.73 (talk) 03:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)Captain celery

• Heh well, I wouldn't treat wiki as anything more than light reading. You'd be bonkers to do any proper research around it. RichyBoy (talk) 10:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Carmelo Bertolami - no cite?

I went to add Carmelo Bertolami to the list of Recent Deaths for November 4 2007, but in the process realized that there is no independent cite for his death anywhere. Does anyone have one? Should he be reinstated? Thank you for your help! Susan Gleason (talk) 20:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The same thing happened to me. I wouldn't reinstate him, since he's been taken off Genarians, but maybe they're taking their cues from here. 80.2.16.73 (talk) 03:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)Captain celery

• Thanks, Cap'n Celery. It does get circular sometimes! Susan Gleason (talk) 15:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Russell Coffey

He was removed from the list and death date Dec, 20 2007 appeared on his wiki page, but no one ever add him to 2007 WWI veterans death list. Are there any references for his death? His name have to go somewhere - or here or on on death list. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.10.105.211 (talk) 11:37, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NEWS13/712210402 would be a good reference for his death. RichyBoy (talk) 12:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

OK then. I've just put him on 2007 deaths and changes total numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.10.105.211 (talk) 13:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Archive Volume 4

I've archived the discussion page as it was getting a bit long, if there are any subjects that you wish to re-discuss please copy and paste them out of the archive back onto this page. RichyBoy (talk) 12:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

J. Russell Coffey Memorial Service

Today I attended the Memorial and Funeral Services for J. Russell Coffey; the Memorial was preceded by a one hour socialization period at the funeral home and the burial was preceded by a seven gun salute (each of the seven American Legionnaire gunners firing three shots with an M-14 rifle). Attendance was sufficient but not enormous; consisting mostly of people who knew him as a College Professor or Rotarian as well as the local American Legion Post and of course, family members. Intersetingly I learned that his 84 year old daughter had died about two months ago. I felt a bit out of place as I was merely someone who had learned of him through the media and then went and visited him. I did meet the director of the Bowling Green, Ohio Rotary Club at the socialization period; I had called that diector on the telephone earier this year to talk with him about Mr. Coffey.

In many ways Mr. Coffey was the textbook example of what one would expect of a centenarian based upon literature on that subject. He was small bodied (probably no more than 5'5" tall; 1.64 meters for those used to SI measurements) and thin (probably only weighing about 115 lbs. or 52 kgs.), of course all elderly people shrink so he may have been bigger when younger; nevertheless he fit the general physical profile of someone who lived a long time. He kept active as long as possible; only in the last two years was he forced to really rest. A small body is simply easier on it's organs while activity keeps the organs in working order for a longer period of time. He also fit the general psychological profile of most known centenarians; the people delivering the eulogies commented about his easy going manner, sense of humor, spiritualism, and desire to help his community. A less stressful life is easier on ones health.

Some interesting coincidences: He lived for 109 years and 110 days. I first met him at 12:30 P.M. (Eastern U.S.A. time) on May 4th, 2006; at that time I was 13,108 days and 13 hours old. His birthdate of Sept. 1st, 1898 made him 39,326 days old on May 4, 2006; but if he were born at 9:30 P.M. on Sept. 1st, 1898 then he would have been 39,325 days and 15 hours old at the time which I met him, exactly three times my age down to the hour at that time! But as I don't know his time of birth I'll just settle for knowing that he was within one day of being thrice my age. Finally, his death on Dec. 20th, 2007 was the day before the Chrysler plant where I work (where Dodge Nitro, Jeep Liberty, and Jeep Wrangler vehicles are made; hence my chat-room handle) shut down for holiday break; giving my co-workers chances to comment since they all have heard me talk about him during the past 19 1/2 months. On my first day off I go to the Memorial services. Several months ago it was predicted by others in this chat-room that he would be among the next WW1 vets to die; that he wouldn't last beyond 2007. They were right, but he probably lived a few months longer than anyone expected.JeepAssembler (talk) 20:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 20:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Serioli dead?

Battista Serioli passed away aged 107 according to this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Czolgolz (talk • contribs)

Yes indeed, apparently so, but when exactly (the forum message posted dates from December 22nd)? Extremely sexy (talk) 08:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I found an Italian news alert page article of the same date over here, but still no exact date of death, although it does state that his funeral was to take place the very next day, Sunday 23rd. Extremely sexy (talk) 22:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

_________________________________________________________________ Just a quick update on Robley Rex. As of December 20th he was alive, and he can still write a lengthy several page letter at 106. However, the answer to my question has been avoided about what year he joined. Though this is no proof, I believe he let the cat out of the bag when he said he joined at age 18. Hence 1919. (PershinBoy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.188.174 (talk) 04:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Bibliography

What have happened to the bibliography at surviving verans page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.173.194.10 (talk) 18:14, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Somebody had removed the {{reflist}} tag so I've added it back in. RichyBoy (talk) 23:06, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Last German veteran dead

Dr. Erich Kästner died 1.1.2008. Here is his death notice: http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2530/file5573fl9.jpg

(ChrisW) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.230.171 (talk) 09:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Someone prematurely blanked Germany...Kunsler's still alive, unless anyone know's differently. Kaster was the last German veteran, Kunsler fought for Austria-Hungary. Czolgolz (talk) 19:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Erich Kästner it is the last german veteran? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.194.128.107 (talk) 21:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks like he was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.207.161 (talk) 20:16, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I find it amazing that Australia, which only mobilized 400,000 troops still has vets while Germany, which mobilized 11,000,000 doesn't.JeepAssembler (talk) 20:16, 19 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 20:16, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

To be fair to the stat you mention there has only been one Australian alive for quite some time - the rest were born in Britain and later emmigrated. Also I don't think they recruited below the age of 18, unlike 16 for other countries - two years sadly makes a lot of difference. RichyBoy (talk) 21:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

There is - finally - a big article on Kästner in Spiegel Online: http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/topicalbumbackground/1280/der_leise_tod_des_letzten_veteranen.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.188.39 (talk) 13:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Last polish veteran dead

Stanislaw Wycech died on the 12th. I'm surprised it took this long to get to us, since he's a national hero. If Frederic Mathieu is correct with his Russian service theory (and it's a big if given that he was 15) then in two weeks we've lost the last of 11 million German troops and the last of 12 million Russians. And still very little attention is paid. Amazing. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 22:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Louis de Cazenave & Raymond Cambefort dead

Louis de Cazenave has died. [1]
The last French veteran living is Lazare Ponticelli. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.229.209.33 (talk) 15:51, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I assume you mean last verified veteran. There could still be controversy over Ponticelli's state funeral if the likely anonymous vet outlives him. I wonder how much mention will be given to his Italian roots and service. I suppose since he has lived in France for a century he's pretty well integrated by now.

On a side note, if Antonio Fernandes is a true case then there were 14 supercentenarian men again, for a couple of weeks. That seems to be something of a ceiling. Obviously Ponticelli isn't verified either, but I think we can be fairly sure of his DOB.

It's been a bad month. My doom-mongering during last winter's (sans Australia) numbers collapse proved incorrect. But because of it there aren't that many left for this summer to sustain. It'll be interesting to see how the Gompertz Tail will play out. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 22:17, 20 January 2008 (UTC) Captain celery

One thing that should be mentioned is that death rates are said to increase in winter months; and we are here discussing some of the oldest people in the world. By looking at the tables it does seem that fewer die in the summer months; We will probably total in the single digits by the 90th anniversary of the Armistice.JeepAssembler (talk) 15:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 15:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Excellent article on William Olin

Finally, someone has done what some so-called researchers should've done - dig into the William Olin story.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/lifestyles/726781,2_5_AU06_STORYTELLER_S1.article

Matt Hanley's article gives excellent background to this case & it's still up in the air about his service - there IS no proof - but lists the reasons why that MIGHT be.

The article does mention one thing that someone might be able to look into - Olin said he enlisted in Kentucky - does that tally with any wartime service records - say, on Ancestry?

Yours, RDO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.135.30 (talk) 17:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Unlike Orin Peterson there is no call-up card or roll that a "William Olin" appears on (at least, not when I checked it out when I was a member of Ancestry). There are myriad possible reasons for this:

• Was never a veteran
• Lied about his name to enlist, meaning we'll never find the roll
• Lied about his age to enlist, meaning we'll never find the roll
• Name was mangled by recording officer to something awkward like "Bill Owelin" or "William O'lynne"
• Roll was destroyed
• Enlisting location is incorrect - eg, he wasn't in Kentucky at all
• Enlisted without being added to the roll because of age (someone broke the rules)
• Enlisted in some capacity that we don't understand or know about which meant he wasn't a normal veteran (Ambulance assisstant, but that article mentions the division that he said he served in which means there should be a roll-card).

The history of the 32nd red arrow division makes it clear about a few things:

The 32nd Division was created by combining the Michigan and Wisconsin National Guard. Wisconsin provided about 15,000 soldiers and Michigan provided 8,000. Later 4,000 National Army troops (selectees or draftees) from Wisconsin and Michigan were assigned to the Division before it left for France.

• Regarding the above, replacements troops where sourced from any state, not just Wisconsin/Michigan so it isn't a guarantee.

• 32 Division is a somewhat vague - what unit was he attached to? The Wisconsin Ambulance Company No 2 for instance?

Tantalisingly they have a list of deaths of all enlistees - but only go as far as the sirnames with the letter g! That would have perhaps revealed the truth (or maybe not, considering some of the comments I make above).

Sadly I doubt if we will ever be able to corroborate the claim. It happened in England as well - people lost their medals (Henry Allingham lost his medals in The Blitz if you read his story) and the national records office was also bombed and set on fire during The Blitz - but unlike America, all of the World War I rolls were eventually recoverable and are on micro-fiche now (even though they were thought to be irrerperably damaged until quite recently).

RichyBoy (talk) 21:46, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought that Olin's family disputed his claim aswell? Of course that doesn't mean he is wrong, but it doesn't exactly help his claim. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 22:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

If you dig round in the archives you will discover that according to some of his younger relatives William Olin is prone to exaggeration. For my part, whilst I do not intend to re-open the "should we include him debate" (I am perfectly happy to leave him as an unverified claim) I am massively sceptical, given his age and what little evidence we have, contradicting his claimed service record. SRwiki (talk) 18:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

If he went in 1917 I don't think he could be - they didn't ship abroad until Feb '18 and it is presumably only from that point onwards where draftees/enlistees from other states entered to replace those troups that had been killed/immobilised. RichyBoy (talk) 12:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Fate of the remaining veterans

On March the 3rd the youngest veterans will be 107-years-old. The mortality rate has sadly started to creep back up. Unlike 2007 this year could realistically see the death of the last known veteran globally. According to the GRG list Henry Allingham in one year has leapt from 68th to 28th place in the living validated super-centenarians list (not that the list pretends to be exhaustive; they estimate possibly 300 are living world-wide, eg, Lazzare Ponticelli isn't in the list although he is over 110 now). This time next year 6 of these 16 veterans would be on a list which sees mortality expressed in percentages of over 60% where male entries have been lower than 10% (although at the moment it's about 1-in-6). Hopefully though the winters stay mild and the summers stay cool wherever they live, and we'll get to see some make it to 2009. RichyBoy (talk) 22:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7199127.stm [please see this link for info on 2nd last French vet.] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.247.92.72 (talk) 23:19, 20 January 2008 (UTC) ____________________________________________ This month has taken a toll. However, I still think four or five will make it to 2009, and one or two until 2010, and possible one like John Babcock could make it to 2011. During the Civil War there were around 12 veterans living in 1952. In 1954 only one verified veteran remained- Albert Woolson, and he died in 1956. It is possible all could go by the end of this year, but I think last veteran could make it to 2011. I also think as we get close to the final few, we will have some fictious claims come forward. As in the Revolutionary war, and Civil War. (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) 21:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

• Well, 6 down in a little over a month isn't a good portent. I also think that a couple of veterans will continue on into 2009 - and maybe further. It was more a statement of reality - this year is the first year that it could become a reality - but I hope it doesn't. RichyBoy (talk) 14:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible all could go this year, but I would seriously doubt it. Jan. of this year looks pretty sad. However, from July 25th to Sept 30th of 2007 none of the WWI veterans died that we know about. (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) 21:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I get what you are trying to say, but with the deaths of Lazare Ponticelli and Yakup Satar, I think that there may be five veterans alive by 2009, but I find it highly unlikely that one could make it to January 1, 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.144.59.63 (talk) 20:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Heck, Frank Buckles can still march in parades; I doubt he wil die any time soon.JeepAssembler (talk) 15:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 15:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I hope Buckles will be the last (I guess me being an American is my reason) and make it to at least 110. However, as I've said before, at these great ages they could do cartwheels one day, and be gone the next. The body just wears out. (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk)

Robley H. Rex, died 1/8/2006, age 105s (Still alive and well Dec. 2007)

According to this web site, the veteran Rex is death http://www.ocalamagazine.com/specPubsNews/templates/default.aspx?a=909&template=print-article.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.250.118 (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

We know he was alive a month ago so that is a mistake, but thanks for bringing it to our attention anyway. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 01:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

(Edit conflict) For many reasons, that site does not appear reliable at all to me, the most obvious being that it considers Rex to be the last surviving World War I veteran, which is clearly false. Also, the information is not substantiated by the SSDI, which covers 95% of all deaths in the United States. Cheers, CP 01:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Are there any internet archives of Kentucky (Where he lived/lives) newspapers to check?JeepAssembler (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, if your willing to take my word for it, he wrote me a long letter and sent me several photos dated dec. 2007 (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a featured list - but I'm curious, what will happen to it once all the veterans are dead?

I don't know if this issue has ever been raised before. Thoughts?--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 22:46, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I mean, articles are constantly being removed from the list with each new death, so that once the last one dies (and it's not gonna be that far off now at the current rate - my guess is 5 years from now), there'll be no need for this list - and it cannot be a featured list once this happens. Featured content is not temporary - right?--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 22:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I suppose the last death article will be the main one then. I'm more optimistic than RichyBoy. I don't think there's much chance of it being 2008, but 2012 is a brave prediction given the last few days. If one of them 'does a Mercado' then it'll look quite conservative. The centenary is possible. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 01:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

I'd still like more people like Canadian Paul and Bart Verseick who are interested in this area to offer their thoughts on this issue I've raised about this list.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 13:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

• This list was never intended to remain as a featured list forever - it will break wiki guidelines in the end and I knew that when I went into the process of making this a featured list. At some point it will be reviewed again and it won't meet the criteria - although I would point out it was accepted that although ultimately transitory in nature the list had sufficient durability to not be excluded (eg, of considerable interest and likely to be around for a few years). There is currently a more simple list elsewhere describing the last veteran of each nation. The compromise would probably be when there are so few veterans left that the page becomes an article rather than a list (perhaps about 6 veterans or so), at which point the other list has a prominent role and could be made featured. Again this list would never have been featured if there were hundred-plus veterans with content changing on a near-daily basis (as it did indeed a few years back). RichyBoy (talk) 13:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know (or care) much about wikipedia's procedures; but if this list must be removed from wikipedia then it would be nice to see it transferred elsewhere in cyberspace. More veterans should be found posthumously (Remember Bruce's comment about us only presently knowing about 2/3 of living WW1 Vets) and some cases could be proven fraudulent (As examples John Sallings was proven not to be a U.S. Civil War Vet and the claim of Jones Morgan being the last Spanish-American vet also looks dobtful). I happen to think that the whole era from 1911 to 1922 was so significant in shaping the world we live in (whether politically, socially, scientifically, or technologically speaking) that this information should not be discarded. As for my own part I have contacted the Japanese and Bulgarian Embassies in Washington D.C. to try to find out when those countries' last veterans died. I know it will be very difficult if not impossible to find anything though.JeepAssembler (talk) 16:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 16:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

What would be transferred elsewhere? If the list is removed, it'll be because it's entirely empty, because there are no surviving veterans remaining. So I'm not sure what you expect to transfer anywhere else. ;-) All the information that was here will continue to gradually move from this page to the various 'WWI Veterans that died in ...' articles until there is simply none left here to transfer. --Maelwys (talk) 16:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought that removing the list implied deleting the entire article and everything that was ever in it.JeepAssembler (talk) 01:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 01:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It does mean deleting the entire article, but it doesn't mean deleting everything in it. That information can still be held elsewhere on wikipedia, just not here since they would no longer be living. aremisasling (talk) 18:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I suspect the list would be rejiggered as a "List of the last surviving veterans of World War I". But yeah, this is one of the few featured lists on Wikipedia with a built-in expiration date. --Golbez (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Spanish Civil War (Resurrected in light of recent deaths)

In looking at this list as it slowly dwindles - which I suspect may still take a few years yet, my mind turns to the next major conflict that effected the Western World. Which, to my mind is the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). Incidentally, it started on my birthday (July 17th, 1936), so it is of particular interest to me. In looking at the Spanish Civil War page here on Wikipedia I've noticed that there is not a similar page of surviving veterans for that conflict - although surely there can't be thousands of them still left? (Or maybe there is?) I'd be interested to know from one of the statisticians who visits these pages (JeepAssembler?) how many veterans it could be estimated that there still are from that conflict - and raise the question of at what point it is perhaps appropriate to start up a more rigorous page documenting the last 100?200?500? veterans of the Spanish Civil War.

Is anyone aware of any current resource that tracks this sort of thing in relation to the Spanish Civil War?jkm 05:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

My suspicion is that it is too early to start digging (could be wrong) as the youngest vets are in their mid eighties but I could be wrong, I would welcome a statistical opinion on this before I start doing any digging - luckily for the UK there appears to an International brigade trust who may have a handle on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SRwiki (talk • contribs) 09:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The Spanish Civil War effectively ended in April, 1939; slightly more than 68 and one-half years ago. To compare with the same time span after WW1 would have been July, 1987; although I have never seen an estimate as to how many U.S. WW1 vets were still alive at that time a reasonable guestimate would be in the neighborhood of 150,000 out of the 4,735,000 who served (about 3% of the total); considering the V.A.'s estimate of 321,000 in March, 1983 and the 1990 Census count of 65,000. Of course one would have to know the total number involved in the SSW (Spaniards and Foreigners); their average ages at the time, and their actuarial life expectancies (a lot were killed in the aftermath).JeepAssembler (talk) 20:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 20:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

i read that in 1990 there were roughly 39,000 british servicemen left from 1914 - 1919. thats out of 6 million so should still be a lot left! Webbmyster (talk) 22:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe the last Welsh veteran has already died, but there weren't many in the first place. 80.2.16.73 (talk) 03:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)Captain celery

Given the fact it was a Civil War, I can't believe that there would at least be that many foreign veterans left - as Captain celery's comment would indicate. All those that are left would presumably be in their 90s by now - can't imagine many teenagers going off to fight in a foreign Civil War!jkm 04:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkmccrann (talk • contribs)

I wanted to resurrect this discussion in light of the recent deaths that have occurred in relation to World War I veterans. Again I will ask, is anyone aware of any tracking, most obviously in Spain and in Spanish, of any lists with regards to Spanish Civil War veterans? Given the number of combatants of the Spanish Civil War was a small fraction of that involved in World War I, the number of veterans remaining at this stage would surely be similarly small in regards to World War I the same distance out from that conflict. Regards. 202.139.104.226 (talk) 01:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know of any tracking yet, but I would reckon it is too early to reliably track the Spanish side of things. As of 2006 USA had 3.4 million living service men that served in WWII and that's only a maximum window of +6 years from the end of the Spanish CW, however I know that isn't the same thing. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3908529.stm is a article describing the international force that totalled only 45,000 - they are probably candidates for tracking now due to the small pool. This as well: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20040301/ai_n14567474 . If the total combatants was something near a million in total then I don't think you could even countenance it until the youngest would be 95 - that's some ten years off. RichyBoy (talk) 14:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with RichyBoy, it is too early to make a start (though if anyone wants to, good luck) Another (possibly terminal) difficulty, is the nature of the conflict itself, in that it was fought largely by paramilitary bodies, with weak record keeping. I would hazard a guess that the Fascist vets are reasonably well documented. But I also suspect that the records for the Republicans, Communists, Anarchists etc will probably be sketchy at best. So this could well be bedevilled with undocumented or just plain spurious claims. SRwiki (talk) 09:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

With an international force of 45,000 - would it be right to assume that most of those veterans would have been in their early-mid 20s to be going and fighting in a foreign civil war? Surely that means comparisons with the conscription of younger recruits for the World Wars means that these veterans are going to die out well before, relatively in terms of length of time from the conflict, than veterans from the World Wars. Someone who went to fight in Spain as a 23yr old in 1936 would now be 95 - the age you mention above. In a cohort of 45,000 - how many survivors were there? And what proportion of that 45,000 (or whatever number survived) would be expected to live to the age of 95 anyway? Can't imagine it would be too many. As for the Spanish veterans - the diffifulties in verifying these I would have thought makes it more important to get on top of finding out and trying to verify possible veterans as soon as possible. 58.175.240.247 (talk) 10:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It's those very difficulties which means it isn't worth worrying about until there are more manageable numbers. Depends why you are interested of course - if it was just numbers the Spanish government probably do produce a list but as already mentioned above it's likely to be of dubious value, rather, it can't ever be truly accurate. Also, if you are interested in tracking the last veterans to find out who truly is the last one then you need to throw 1936 and 23yr old out of the window - 1939 and 18 is much more like it - not to say that a 1936 vet can't out-last the younger ones but you need to track the youngest who joined up latest - anyone that is older at that point will pop up anyway where as a few years earlier and he would just be one amidst many. For the record about 16,000 died of that 45,000 or so in the International Brigade (website here) http://www.international-brigades.org.uk/ - I did some digging around and discovered that 2,400 British soldiers joined the International brigade, and 526 of those died. In the year 2000 some 40 of these 1874 were still alive - I think they are down to their last handful now, inerestingly Jack Jones is amongst them. For the International Brigade it is probably time to track, there are probably less than 150 or so now. The Spanish in the civil war is going to throw up a lot of 15 years old fighting I would imagine and survivors are going to rank in their thousands still. RichyBoy (talk) 03:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I agree that there will be plenty of Spanish veterans who were fighting in this war as 15yr olds - no doubt - and it is very tough to verify who these people actually were, but I guess I was being more concerned particularly with International Brigade veterans. You brought up Jack Jones, and it just so happens that he was a 23yr old when he went across to fight - kind of illustrating the point I was making in terms of International Brigade veterans. Sure, there would have been 18yr olds and 19 yr olds who went across to fight in a foreign civil war - just as there were in Bosnia in the 1990s, but of the 45,000 quoted, I think that it would have been a very low percentage of that - under-represented in that figure. At a pinch I think the mean age would skew higher than conflicts like WW1 and WW2 (or the Spanish veterans themselves - which would have a mean age skewed younger), with I still believe, the majority of International veterans being aged in their 20s, from perhaps 22/23 at the time of the start of the conflict. The vast majority.

I guess a secondary point to be made is, you guess there may be 150 International Brigade veterans left out there - but how many are actually verified? Wouldn't be many I wouldn't have thought. So if there is a list put up on a place like Wikipedia (along the lines of this page), then that can become something of a central reference point, which can help pull some claims out of the woodwork, or people who may have heard of a claim, and then some kind of verification process is more likely to be undertaken to test the veracity of the claims - as this page does. I wouldn't claim to have the expertise to do this myself, which is why I raise it here - but I would be interested to know how many International Brigade veterans are left from this conflict - and just where they come from and live today! Very interested (I do love a good Hemmingway which may be one reason I say that).202.139.104.226 (talk) 23:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• Well there is always going to be "possible" service cases to be considered that never made it onto a roll (we should be uber-dubious about these from the get-go IMO) but I believe there are complete and unfettered rolls for these armed forces members. Statistically WWII didn't really knobble the stats on older people living longer but we all know WWII knobbled the armed forced. 40 alive today should be nearer the stat just for the UK when it is probably 5 or so - so my 150 people view is IMO highly pragmatic, I don't think you will find more for this moment in time. I believe I could enumerate the UK veterans and the recently departed but I don't think I have time/resources to do any other nation (tacitally, we have agreed the international brigade needs some attention, but forget spain until 2015 say). Not least of all, the WWI list is here because of the French government awarding the legion du honneur in 1998 and making it markedly easy to track troops which were on French soil - this time around explicit co-operation with governments is likely to be required. RichyBoy (talk) 01:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• On July 15 2006 there were 24 of those British veterans left alive according to The Times (a quality UK daily newspaper - not a tabloid). http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2270636,00.html Subsequent deaths can be tracked through the obitiuaries on the Ineternational Brigade website - I've a feeling over a dozen still live based on a brief flicking through correlated to those numbers - but there we go, it's a start. The webpage could begin based on this alone. RichyBoy (talk) 01:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Good Daily Mail article

The Daily Mail (a UK daily newspaper) has a very good article on page 37 (I will try and scan it in an upload it somewhere later). It makes a great ado about the last German veteran Erich Kästner passing away unnoticed (coincidentally his biography can be expanded a little bit now, for instance he has a civilian medal) and it also discusses the French veteran Louis de Cazenave passing away at the weekend. It's main focus is on Europe so it gets the veteran numbers a little wrong and it still amazes that the parochial UK press miss out the fact that half the remaining British vets live overseas, however it was good to see the rest of the article covering reasonably good detail. RichyBoy (talk) 09:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Der Spiegel also had a good article in its English-language website: [2]  RGTraynor  16:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, with the death of Erich Kästner media coverage has exploded, and many of the articles refer to this site. Here are some more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=509925 (Daily Mail)

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Germany-silent--as-last.3705297.jp (Scotsman.com)

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/25/veteran.obit.ap/index.html (CNN.com)

http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/topicalbumbackground/1280/der_leise_tod_des_letzten_veteranen.html (Spiegel online)

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/default.htm?tag=Dr.%20Erich%20K%C3%A4stner (Daily Telegraph)

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/01/23/kastner.html (CBC News)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/01/24/last-ww1-german-war-veteran-dies-aged-107-89520-20296162/ (Daily Mirror)

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/080123/world/world_kastner (Yahoo Canada)

http://www.anorak.co.uk/anorak-editor/179737.html (Anorak News)

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=433219&no=381554&rel_no=1 (OhmyNews Korea)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080125/ap_on_re_eu/obit_last_german_veteran (Yahoo News) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.231.22 (talk) 21:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.231.183 (talk) 07:23, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

(ChrisW) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.214.200 (talk) 17:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting how many of those articles claim that only four European WWI vets are still alive. Obviously they all cherrypicked from the same article, and didn't bother to check facts.  RGTraynor  18:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Kuntzler

Someone keeps deleted Kuntzler's entry without a reference. Is he dead or are they confusing him with the last German guy? Czolgolz (talk) 15:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

His Name ist Künstler, please.
I phoned today because of inquiries for a contact to Franz Künstler with the one of the persons which works with Künstler and helps him sometimes. Accourding to her Franz Künstler is still alive and in good chape.
--Statistician (talk) 18:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If this nonsense keeps up, perhaps we need semi-protection for a while; most of the reverts come from anon IPs.  RGTraynor  20:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

"In training"

Why are soldiers listed as "in training" part of the list? Is that really fair to label them as VETERANS?

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 23:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It is true to say that with only a very few exceptions that every member of the armed forces that was on the side of the Allied Powers who joined up to and including the date of the Armistice was awarded an Allied Victory Medal (each country struck their own from the basic design) and are conisdered veterans by their governments (including merchant seamen). Furthermore most governments awarded this medal and additionally offer(ed) war pensions for anyone that signed up before the Tready of Versailles as well in 1919 - it's only the romantisist/populist view of the war that believes that a veteran must have been somebody that went "over the top" - this list doesn't attempt to dissambiguate 'combat' veterans for two reasons - Wikipedia doesn't allow for synthesis (eg, making up your own arbitrary rules) and also simply because most governments didn't either (France and Italy had different views on this).

For more information please read the comments in the archive - it's been discussed at great length before and there are a lot of interesting arguments/counter-arguments to consider. RichyBoy (talk) 03:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Consider also that WW1, unlike WW2 did not bring about the complete conquest and unconditional surrender of the defeated side. While in retrospect it is obvious that The Central Powers were in a hopeless position in October, 1918; it still seemed (at least to the general public) like they had enough military power to continue on for longer. In fact I have heard that the Allies were planning a decisive offensive for the following spring. A recruit should not have held against him enlisting at the end of the war because someone in training at that time figured on going to the trenches.JeepAssembler (talk) 01:27, 29 January 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 01:27, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• It's a crucial point actually - the sheer weight of American enlistees influenced the demeanour of the rank-and-file German soldier to such a point where surrender was 'more' expediently bought about. This is referenced in several books that I don't have the time to reference now (Denis Showalter et al istr) but the WWI articles on the wiki do cover this in a reasonable amount of detail. Less conscriptees posted oversees or otherwise would have equated to prolonging the war. RichyBoy (talk) 01:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

This is a great list and wonderful source of information on these heroes. On the subject of veterans who were only "in training" at the time of the Armistice being included, personally I would like to see Era vets (ones participating in the actual Great War effort as opposed to those participating in related conflicts, important as those men are) to be included in the "regular list". I understand the necessity to separate those serving prior to the Armistice from those afterwards, but informally I find no reason to make a great distinction between a Robley Rex or even a Floyd Matthews from a Frank Buckles. As has been mentioned, the First World War ground to a halt, not all-but-decided by a small number of defining events as the Second World War was. Were I to hear Rex introduced or honoured as a veteran, I would take no issue with it. He was part of the war effort and even served in Europe before the Treaty of Versailles (if I remember correctly), which legally ended the War according to many historians. A decade ago I might have challenged his service, but with only three men left who participated in the U.S. war effort, and similar small numbers internationally, I really feel that he and the other era vets deserve greater and public recognition. Nothing wrong with "inclusion with an asterisk" for military service, in my opinion. State funerals, etc, can be decided by the authorities for the individual countries, but recognition at large should be for all those who participated in the effort, whether before or slighly after November 11. Snowdog81 (talk) 20:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)snowdog81

Frank Buckles

Today Frank Buckles will turn 107 years old; considering his "youth" (relatively speaking of course) and health (he travels, marches in parades, and as far as I know still lives in his own house); I wonder if he will be the planet's last verified veteran of the First World War?JeepAssembler (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Seeing as we have then and now pictures, I am amazed at how little he has changed in 90 years. You don't need to be told that you're looking at the same person. He's a good candidate but the others 'over the pond' are too. Gladys Powers has the advantage of being female, John Babcock seems to have relished his new status, and Harry Landis looks after his wife. Interesting that Erich Kaestner's wife was also a centenarian. Longevity attracts it seems. Over here, Bill Stone is doing well apparently, and Franz Kuenstler is still working, despite people who can't read thinking that he is dead. I hope he is the last one since he was on the frontlines. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 10:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

== Józef Kowalski Today Józef Kowalski will turn 108 years old http://www.zachod.pl/articles/view/niech-zyje-200-lat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.30.166.105 (talk) 17:30, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'd say most of us have our favorites as who we wish or think will be the last. However, once you get to these great ages, you can have good health one day, and pass in your sleep the next, as several have done. I believe staying active like Mr. Babcock, he has a great chance. I also think some of it has to do with your outlook. Harry Landis says they will have to shot him, to get rid of him. Harry Patch said he would make 109, but not 110 (Patch stated this in his book, but perhaps he has changed his mind, and sees 110 possible - I hope so). Bill Stone hopes he is the last. Gladys Powers is in very poor health. I thought Lloyd Brown had a great chance from seeing him in an interview and pictures, but he had a short sickness and was gone. At this point it really could be any of the 15. (PershinBoy)209.247.21.167 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Those people who think that Franz Kuenstler is dead must be confusing him with "Kastner" since the names were so similar. As for Harry Patch, I hope he lives at least until June 17th and becomes a Super-Centenarian. I probably am biased towards Buckles as he is an American; but it is true that the British (within the U.K. and overseas) simply aren't dying off at the same rate as everyone else is; we will just see.JeepAssembler (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Harry Patch has said that he hopes to see 110 - was either in his book or a interview with the BBC late last year, can't remember which. Claude Choules is still in very good health as far as I can recall (I've added a reference on his page for his birthday last March). Although what Pershin has said is very true and I'm purely second guessing, I would think the veterans that can still walk moderately well right here and now are most likely to continue the longest, which I think are Künstler, Choules, Buckles and possibly Stone(he certainly used too, although since he broke his hip I've not seen any photos of him without a wheelchair). Unsuprisingly they are pretty much the youngest as well. RichyBoy (talk) 17:06, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I am biased towards Harry Patch after seeing him on 'The Last Tommy'. I like his accent and he spoke very lucidly about it all. But I have to admit that Frank Buckles has a better chance given his age. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it could be any of them. A lot of people think Tanabe is going to take the male record whereas they don't think Henry Allingham will. I think he would probably need to, to be the last.

I do agree that our guesses aren't even that educated really. Josef Kowalski has reached 108 and Delfino Borroni 109 which shows how the body can be fine even if the mind reportdely isn't. If I was going to back a Brit I would have gone for Bill Stone. But if Claude Choules is still doing well then he has a better chance as the youngest than Stanislaw Wycech did, what with the Australian climate (is that a stereotype?). Perhaps the same could be said for Syd Lucas but I don't know about him. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 21:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Turkish Veteran Mentioned; No Further Information

I was searching back through these archives (Archive 1) and noticed that sometime between September 27th and September 29th of 2006 it was mentioned that the last known Turkish veteran at that time (before Yakup Satar) died sometime between late 2003 and early 2005. I wonder why he isn't listed on these death pages? Is his name and/or death date unknown? Or is that case hard to really verify?JeepAssembler (talk) 21:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 21:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

http://dersdesders.free.fr/turquie.html Could be one of them listed on there. I don't know if they are reflected on the death lists or not. RichyBoy (talk) 17:35, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Could refer to Omer Hoyuk. It seems that there were 8 War of Independence vets alive this time 5 years ago, but then 2 years ago he died and 5 of the others already had. Veysal Turan died last year but he was only an era-vet. Also Hoyuk was sort of the last Turk if not the last Ottoman, in the same way that Kaestner was the last German, because Satar was born in modern day Ukraine as Kuenstler was born in modern day Hungary. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 21:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

No, that isn't correct. Künstler was born in hungary, but is birth place is now a part of romania. He was a solder of the austria-hungarian force and there he can't be a veteran of a german force. But Satar fought for the osmanian empire and so he is the last ottoman veteran.--Statistician (talk) 00:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

OK so it's Romania not Hungary, but I was right about everything else. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 04:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

No, you aren't. Künstler isn't a "german" veteran of the WWI because he served for the austrian-hungarian army and not because he wasn't born in germany. Romert Meier wasn't born in germany, too, but serve for a german army so he was a german veteran. It's not a question of nationality, it's a question of serving. --Statistician (talk) 01:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll take your word for it. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 15:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Can Anyone Translate This Article Into Foreign (Non - English) Languages?

Just for the sake of curiousity; I looked at the German and French versions of Wikipedia to see if this article was on either of them and it wasn't. It may be a simple matter of me not properly phrasing "Known Surviving Veterans of World War 1" in French and German. I did look in my German - English dictionary to find the words and then called a German language professor at one of the universities in my area to get her opinion on how to phrase it. After typing "Uberlebende Soldaten des 1. Welt Kriegs" in the German Wikipedia page search box their were several articles mentioned; including one on the battle of Verdun, so I must have been on the right track. Similarly, on the French Wikipedia homepage I typed in "Survivant Veterans de la Premiere Guerre Mondiale"; which I copied from the Ders des Ders article on Yakup Satar. I am sure that both of those nations have good accounting of their last veterans; my reason for investigating was to see if anyone outside of the English speaking world is similarly tracking. I think that if this article could be translated into foreign languages it would be a big help in finding veterans in places where there probably were some in the past three or four years but that are not on these pages (Japan, Russia, and perhaps other ex-Soviet Republics). I suspect that least some of the names on these lists were found by individuals and not by government or media organizations.JeepAssembler (talk) 01:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 01:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

• Actually this article has been translated into other languages and are available in their local wikis (certainly german and french), but they don't tend to be as up-to-date and there certainly isn't the discussion that we have, the lead is taken from here. As a tip though if you are searching for non-english articles you must be aware that each country called WWI something different - the concept of WWI simple doesn't exist for some places where they call it the 'great war of independence' and so on, there is no intersection with our usage of WWI whatsoever, so if you search on that key you will get nothing. RichyBoy (talk) 09:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It would be no Problem to translate the article in german. But if you would try to start it in the German Wikipedia it would be immediately deleted. Because this topic is not relevant. It does not belong to an encyclopedia. This is not my opinion but the opinion of the ruling class in German Wiki. Try it and you will see how many stupid and simple-minded people there are in Germany. By the way the correct translation would be: Überlebende Veteranen des Ersten Weltkriegs. --217.87.190.159 (talk) 00:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Harry Landis dead, Frank Buckles update - US down to 1

http://southshore2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/06/1-known-wwi-veteran-left-after-sun-city-center-man/

See article above.

Cheers, Richard J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.135.30 (talk) 20:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The link doesn't work, but if you search for 'Landis' on the site, you'll find the article. Czolgolz (talk) 21:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jDa5mt0aTjS9lpSru-MHHRROyM9QD8UL38G81

That's the Associated Press release, for reference. RichyBoy (talk) 23:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone shed any light on Jim Lincoln and William Olin? Are they still alive. Both have been on the unverified list for two years. I doubt they are WWI veterans, but I wish these could be resolved so there would be no doubt that Buckles is the last U.S. veteran. (PershinBoy)162.114.40.31 (talk) 14:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Whilst Wikipedia contains a lot of rubbish, I like to think that this page is an exception, and if people follow our article they'll be accurate. And indeed they must have done because we've not seen Lincoln and Olin mentioned, or Rex and Matthews (who's recently turned 105). By all accounts this death is a bit of a shock, but that's how it goes when you're 108. Good for Buckles to be the last, since he came over. Still 2 resident in the US, which drops below the UK and Australia, but level with Italy and perhaps France. And like last year we're averaging 1 fatality per week. I'm sure that won't go on as long though. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 15:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

• I would expect that the press take their lead from the US veteran affairs department (or whatever it is called) that will be able to tell them that only one person is left claiming a war pension from this conflict (the war pension being how they track them). It doesn't preclude as yet undiscovered veterans, but it does preclude the unverified based on the evidence as far as that department is concerned - they've already said no. Nobody is arguing about Mathews or Rex, they are both era veterans (the only intrigue about dates being from Rex himself). RichyBoy (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This article, from before Landis died, claimed that Matthews was one of three living veterans. So the media does tend to give credence to even those who are demonstrably not veterans. 71.42.216.100 (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

It's like a Google search. If you include the terms 'WW1' and 'vet', even if you have 'era' in between, they're counted as vets-proper. That article actually makes more sense now, because you could include Rex. At that time Babcock would have been the 3rd one. Also strange that they mention Matthews' 105th birthday over a week before it happened. I think Buckles will be the last verified because I believe Peterson was the anonymous vet. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 21:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Jim Lincoln

Jim Lincoln hung out at Horsehead, a bar in Eugene, fairly frequently from what I've been told, and from what I read in an early-2006 article in the Oregonian newspaper. However, when I was in there a few weeks ago and asked about him (I didn't know he'd died), they said he was still alive but didn't come in as frequently anymore. He died January 5th of this year. Hmmm. James Lincoln

Dr. James Edward Lincoln of Eugene died Jan. 5 of cancer. He was 109. A celebration of life will be from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m. June 21 at Cozmic Pizza in Eugene.

He was born June 21, 1898, in the Territory of Alaska to Edward and Mary Lee Lincoln. He married Angeline Symans.

Lincoln was a medical doctor who worked in medical research and in the field of electron microscopes. He served in the military in World War I and World War II.

His wife died in 1988.
So whats the story? Anybody have any updates? --Ragemanchoo (talk) 08:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I've only just notice that he has been removed from the page. The obituary URL is here: http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=55020&sid=16&fid=1 RichyBoy (talk) 22:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting that his obituary states everything that hasn't been proved yet, in one final act of defiance. I mean this with all the greatest respect in the world, but thank goodness he wasn't the last surviving WWI veteran - I think it might have been a bit embarrassing to have someone who had no proof as the last veteran - [3]

The SSDI report also lists him as 109, interestingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.135.30 (talk) 20:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well that might have been the one fact about him that was actually notable. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 21:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Someone ought to check and see if even his claimed age was real; if it's really possible.JeepAssembler (talk) 21:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 21:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

"EMBARRASSING TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAD NO PROOF AS THE LAST VETERAN" - Yes, that is what concerns me about William Olin. (PershinBoy)162.114.40.31 (talk) 21:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

There was once a man named Charlie Smith who died in Florida in 1979; he was able to convince Social Security that he was born in 1842!JeepAssembler (talk) 23:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 23:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

If the obituary is correct in that Jim Lincoln held an MD, it should be possible to find his doctoral thesis and see if there is any information on his birthdate in there. (ChrisW) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.237.228 (talk) 08:54, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Which veterans is most in shape? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.209.146.27 (talk) 13:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

From watching videos of Babcock and Buckles they seem to be doing quite well. In general I'd say the ones in the best shape are the six youngest on our listing. However, in saying that, Mr. Allingham though he is slowing down seems to be like the energizer bunny. Mr. Stone was doing great until late 2006, he broke his hip, but he recovered and is doing better. (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) 06:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Which veterans is least in shape? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.209.146.27 (talk) 13:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

What a morbid question! Czolgolz (talk) 15:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

sorry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.209.146.27 (talk) 17:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm morbid myself, so to answer the question, Gladys Powers is reportedly in poor health. In terms of the men, Delfino Borroni has been seen as the 'next to go' since before he turned 109, which was over 6 months ago. Amongst the era-vets, Josef Kowalski has been described in the same way. As for good health I agree that 5 of the youngest 6 are doing best, but only because they've had a few less years. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 11:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

I am not even sure that "Jim Lincoln" was his real name. I checked on Ancestry.com and found several entries with names similar to his; including a James Lincoln who also lived in the state of Oregon and died in 2001, a James "Doc" Lincoln (remember his claim to be a Doctor) who lived in either Arizona or Arkansas, and several others with names similar to those he claimed for his parents and wife. Most disturbingly, he claimed to have been born in Alaska at the time of the Klondike Gold Rush (when boom towns sprang up practically overnight and therefore reliable birth records unlikely). His claimed birthday was June 21st; if you are far enough north on that date it is light all 24 hours; some light ought to be shed on this case to either prove it's falsity or unlikely truth.JeepAssembler (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Can complement yourself the biography of John Ross ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.194.133.142 (talk) 14:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I searched Ancestry.com under "James Edward Lincoln" as was given in the obituary.JeepAssembler (talk) 22:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 22:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Mikhail Krichevsky

Mikhail Krichevsky is definitely a claim although the below article contains a lot of mistakes (e.g. it states that Lazaro Ponticelli living in US(!) is the only other WWI veteran):

http://novosti.dn.ua/details/58826/

Is it sound or not - that's another question. Therefore, observing recent fight on this page, I suggest a compromise: he should be added to "unverified claims" until his military service is documentally proven. And PLEASE don't make grammatic mistakes when editing the page, especially in verb tenses.--81.190.205.149 (talk) 15:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Well its a claim of sorts I suppose, at least on a par with the Jim Lincoln claim so he should be in the unverified until proven otherwise I think (even though personally I suspect this claim will not hold water) SRwiki (talk) 17:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The entry criteria for wikipedia is being citied by the press, arguably we shouldn't remove anyone from the list who has been cited but has been proved otherwise; it's only our job to point out the facts of the matter. In any event this looks sound enough from a google language translation point of view; I'll add him Saturday to unverifides if he hasn't been added before then. RichyBoy (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC) I agree. I have already reversed the latest edits (incl. Krichevsky deletion)--81.190.205.149 (talk) 06:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's any reason for us not to put him on unverified. Unlike with Olin, there'll surely be a few who conveniently outlive him, since he would also be in the top 10 oldest men if confirmed. But as with Guzman Garcia, there's a reason why Ukraine and Colombia aren't on that MEDC list. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 19:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Boris Efimov

He is not a WWI veteran, of course, but can't we treat him as an era veteran? After all, he served in the Red Army during the Russian Civil War in 1918 (as an artist, not a front line soldier, but still...). I know there have been a lot of discussions on this page but still I can't understand why he is discarded altogether... --81.190.205.149 (talk) 15:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Let me say to 80.66.246.102 in Russian: Коллега, эта статья не игрушка. Не путайте 1МВ с гражданской (Ефимов), а на Кричевского представьте доказательства его службы в 1МВ (газетная статья недостаточна).--81.190.205.149 (talk) 16:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

There is no evidence to suggest that Boris Efimov was ever in military service of any kind at this or any other time, it is not mentioned in his official biography and he makes no claim either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SRwiki (talk • contribs) 17:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

OK. In fact, I only see his military service mentioned in the English version of Wikipedia, not in the Russian. Well, then I agree that he should not be included. So - Krichevski as unverified and no more changes?--81.190.205.149 (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Russian Veterans

Can I remind everyone of the list I previously posted of verified Russian WWII veterans who were old enough to have served in WWI and alive as of 2005, according to Russian website Pobediteli. Whilst it does not indicate that any of these men served in WWI there is a high probability that a proportion of them did; and given that this list is only 3 years old there is a sporting chance that handful of them are still alive.

Perhaps our Russian speaking correspondent can make a search of online Russian language news reports etc. to see if this is the case and if so, whether any reference is made to service in WWI or the Russian Civil War?

Name	Given Birthdate
Nuris Sandrievich Abdullin (Moscow)	1 Dec 19001
Izmitdin Abduragimovich Abduragimov (Daghestan)	1 Dec 19001
Georgii Stepanovich Ananchenkov (Moscow)	1 Jan 19001
Valentin Alekseevich Andreenko (Moscow Region)	5 Jan 1900
Izi Ataev (Daghestan)	1 Jul 19001
Dmitrii Parmenovich Balzamov (Moscow)	28 Nov 1900
Petr Romanovich Belokopytov (St Petersburg)	31 Dec 1897
Dmitrii Vladimirovich Boiko (Krasnodar)	14 Feb 1899
Mihail Yakovlevich Chumakov (Moscow)	5 Nov 1900
Abdurahman Dalgatov (Daghestan)	1 Jul 19001
Anatolii Vasilevich Davydov (Moscow)	1 Jan 19001
Aleksandr Evgenevich Dikarev (Moscow)	1 Jan 19001
Mazan Yusufovich Etcheev (Kabard-Balkaria)	1 Jul 19001
Adam Prokofevich Gromik (Irkutsk)	16 Feb 1900
Ivan Sergeevich Harchenko (Stavropol)	1 Jan 19001
Emirhan Ilyasov (Daghestan)	6 May 1900
Aleksandr Egorovich Kamynin (Moscow)	1 Jan 19001
Aleksei Semenovich Kirillov (Moscow Region)	19 Jan 1900
Mihail Semenovich Kolesnikov (Moscow Region)	1 Jan 19001
Nikolai Stepanovich Kosulnikov (St Petersburg)	6 Dec 1898
Nikolai Timofeevich Kovalev (Moscow Region)	1 Jul 19001
Aleksandr Mihailovich Krivshich (Moscow Region)	1 Jul 19001
Dmitrii Petrovich Kuklin (Amur)	1 Jul 19001
Yurii Vasilevich Lebedev (Moscow Region)	1 Jul 19001
Petr Yakovlevich Lelchuk (Rostov)	3 Jun 1898 (22 Jul 1898)2
Shlema Haimovich Livshits (St Petersburg)	13 Feb 18993
Matvei Gavrilovich Lukoshkin (Stavropol)	22 Aug 1900
Vasilii Andreevich Makarshin (Karelia)	15.Jul 1900
Ivan Ivanovich Moskalenko (Omsk)	4 Jun 1896
Biyatli Muradov (Daghestan)	1 Jul 18991
Sultan Kurgokovich Nahushev (Kabard-Balkaria)	1 Jul 19001
Anatolii Nikolaevich Ovchinnikov (Krasnoyarsk)	1 Jul 19001
Pariz Ambartsumovich Parizyan (Rostov)	15.Jul 1900
Ivan Pavlovich Pechenyi (Belgorod)	18 Jan 1900
Yurii Ivanovich Pisemskii (Rostov)	2 Jan 19001
Ignatii Fedotovich Romanenko (Gomel, Belarus)	3 Nov 1900
Valentin Vasilevich Rumyantsev (Moscow)	19 Jun 1900
Pavel Ivanovich Ryabtsev (Chelyabinsk)	19 Jun 1900
Vladimir Kuzmich Saraev (Moscow Region)	1 Jul 19001
Mihail Georgievich Shipilov (Moscow Region)	21 Nov 1900
Abu Kambotovich Shogenov (Kabard-Balkaria)	1 Jul 19001
Vasilii Petrovich Suharev (Amur)	2 Jul 19001
Arkadii Martynovich Sychev (Moscow)	28 Jan 1900
Nazhmutdin Kehursaevich Temirgareev (Daghestan)	16 Aug 1898
Lokman Tuganovich Temirliev (Karachay-Cherkessia)	1 Jul 19001
Yahya Salihovich Timov (Krasnodar)	5 May 1896
Sergo Nikolaevich Tsaryashvili (Pskov)	5 Jul 1898
Bahavdin Yunusov (Chechenia)	2 Feb 1898
Igor Ivanovich Zaitsev (Moscow)	1 Jul 18901 4

¹ These duplicate birthdates suggest that Pobediteli’s researchers were working from incomplete (military?) records. It is assumed that these men were alive on these dates rather than actually born on them.

² From other online sources it is known that Petr Lelchuk served as a medic in the Russian Civil War 1918 – 1922. He was later a renowned Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology at the University of Rostov.

³ Shlema Livshits actually died in the USA in 2004. He was a Russian Civil War veteran.

⁴ Verification of super-centenarian status, obviously, required.

Thanks

86.141.57.111 (talk) 00:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Bruce Alas, I can't find anything more - the same info on Lelchuk, that's all:-(--81.190.205.149 (talk) 08:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Which are the last survivors of trenches? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.194.49.208 (talk) 15:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Harry Patch and Lazare Ponticelli are the last survivors on the Western Front. Ponticelli was also at the Italian front and I believe that Borroni and Chiarello were too. Kuenstler was on the opposite side, although I believe he may have been in the cavalry. The one I'm not sure about is Yakup Satar, but maybe we'll learn more when he reaches 110 in a few weeks. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 20:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Just to add to Captain Celery's note Trench warfare was really only a feature of the Western and Italian fronts, though the Gallipoli campaign probably comes into that category. In general the Eastern and Ottoman fronts where simply too long to become fully entrenched. so the 4 mentioned above are very likely to be the last trench veterans. SRwiki (talk) 07:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

So to confirm, you think the 4 are Patch, Ponticelli, Borroni and Chiarello, and not Kuenstler and Satar? 80.2.17.47 (talk) 22:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

To Confirm Captain thats the 4 I was thinking of not Keunstler and Satar. SRwiki (talk) 08:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Let us pretend that all 49 Russians were in fact WWI veterans in addition to being WWII vets, and that all were alive as of 2005. Well, in the United States from 2005-2008 we have lost (that have been verified) 48 WWI veterans. So the chance that any of these Russian vets would still be alive and a WWI vet would be even more slim. Perhaps one may be alive, but I wouldn't rest much hope in it. However, listing these soldiers here is a good idea! (PershinBoy)162.114.40.31 (talk) 20:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Quite so, but there were also 49 verified British veterans alive half way through 2004 and 6 of them are still with us. Any more than 1 or 2 though, is a long shot I agree.81.151.90.108 (talk) 22:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Bruce

There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics. Although those two are good ones. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 22:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Matthews, Floyd 'Skipper'is dead —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.194.49.208 (talk) 17:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Was there any information on extremely old Soviet WW2 veterans living in other ex-Soviet Republics? Ukraine has 1/3 the population of Russia so they should have had some also. Of course the Ukrainian and other non-Russian republics may be unwilling to acknowledge the service of someone in a military whose ultimate purpose was to preserve Russian interests.JeepAssembler (talk) 18:07, 1 March 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 18:07, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Pobediteli has lists of veterans from Belarus (one shown above) and Moldova, but none of the other former Soviet republics.86.129.77.33 (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)Bruce

Even if none of those listed are still alive, if they were WW1 or WW1 era (including 1920 Polish War) and were alive three years ago then at least their names can be added to the lists of deceased.JeepAssembler (talk) 22:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 22:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Floyd (Skipper) Matthews

Mr. Matthews died earlier this week. Here's an obituary. I'll let someone who frequents this page make the necessary changes. http://www.legacy.com/timesdaily/Obituaries.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonID=104296874 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.44.5.136 (talk) 20:59, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SIR CHOULES!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.194.49.208 (talk) 17:46, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Some additional references

Echoing the above birthday wish I've checked out the news for the recent and up-and-coming birthdays. I've added a new reference on Claude Choules' biography about his birthday (it has a picture as well), and also updated Yakup Saturs' biography who was released from hospital recently after an infection. I've also changed all the remaining veterans articles so they have auto dates on them thus: &0000000000000109.000000109 years, &0000000000000090.00000090 days . RichyBoy (talk) 22:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

And I have removed all of the autodates because it is a violation of WP:V. By saying that they are exact ages, we are claiming that the fact that they are still alive at that exact age is a verifiable fact. Unless you happen to have a reliable source that says that checks to make sure they are alive every day, autodates inherently contain unverifiable information. Also, the style you used for their dates of birth was a violation of WP:DATE. Note that this applies to counts that give their age in years and days NOT ones that give their age in only years - because if we don't update the years, we are claiming that they are deceased and, unless we have evidence for that, it is an equally unverifiable issue with WP:BLP. Cheers, CP 00:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

What a load of old bollocks - the year isn't invariant either; what happens if someone dies the day before that changes then? That's why people need to get their heads out of their arses. RichyBoy (talk) 07:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

As Im not a regular contributor or editor of this page so I'll leave the debate on whether auto-dates should be added to others, but just one observation is that what time zone are the auto dates set to? I only ask because I checked the page in the morning of Henry Allingham's last birthday, and it did not update until later in the day (I'm in the UK). Not sure if this was done manually or automatically at the time. If there is going to be auto updating it should be 'veteran-centric' as opposed to Euro, US or anywher else-centric.Sanctuary73 (talk) 15:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

First of all, RichyBoy, please observe the policy of no personal attacks. We've all had hard work reverted, but that's something you have to accept the possibility of every time you submit something to Wikipedia. Second of all, in the case that you describe, we have to observe WP:IAR. If a rule prevents you from improving Wikipedia, ignore it. That's why I don't mind bigger lists like List of living supercentenarians having years and days because it makes sense to have it there, even if eventually it's likely to be incorrect at one point or the other. Years are assumed "unless proved otherwise" (because to state otherwise would be an unverified assumption of their death). Aside from being unverifiable, exact ages in individual biographies of living people serve no purpose (with very rare, arguable exceptions such as the oldest living person in the world), and thus violate WP:BLP's standard of absolute verifiability.

To answer Sanctuary73, it's technically supposed to update at 00:00 UTC, but sometimes I gets wonky for reasons I don't understand. In any case, that's part of Wikipedia development, so there's no way to make the changes "individual-centric" as far as I know. Cheers, CP 17:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

• Don't take it as an attack on you personally it isn't; it's an attack of the vanity and pomposity of wikipedia editors as a whole, people that are happy to spout wiki rules all day long but their edit logs are a list of minor correganda and never anything that contributes more knowledge to a subject - if you find your edit logs are full of MoS and not content you've got it all badly wrong. I care little for the reversion of dates; I'm exasperated that anyone would get involved with pettyfogging trivia about a day count being unverifiable, but somehow just quoting the year makes it suddenly all ok. That's vanity; not wiki policy. RichyBoy (talk) 23:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh and by the way CP, for goodness sakes, you've actually undone content edition on Claude Choules' page. If that doesn't prove my point entirely about editors being more concerned about policy minutea than content. RichyBoy (talk) 23:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Well if you notice, I'm admin. That means that it's my job on Wikipedia to make sure that things conform to policy (a janitor if you will) - I obviously can't fix everything, but I have to fix what I see. So calling me (or any other admin) out for doing what the community has asked them to do is a bit unfair. Furthermore, people who do minor corrections are just as valuable as people who write entire articles, whether or not they are administrators. Furthermore, a brief look at my user page shows that, at the very least, I've contributed several Good Articles and even more B class ones that I either wrote or rewrote from scratch. A more careful look will show you why I don't do that anymore. Cheers, CP 17:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, Two birthday's today. Yakup Satar and John Campbell Ross. I wonder what the odds of that would be? (PershinBoy)209.247.21.167 (talk) 04:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Ponticelli

So is Ponticelli dead? Could someone site a reference? Czolgolz (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

It would seem that he is dead, thanks for the source. Czolgolz (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

This one's not going to go unnoticed given his perceived status. On Harry Patch's article it quotes his disbelief at being the Last Tommy, but now he's the last Western Front trench veteran worldwide. The question now is whether Laurent Toussaint still has that ace up his sleeve. We found out about Bernard Delaire's death within 3 weeks despite him being anonymous, so presumably we would have found out about the other anonymous vet if he had died. It's possible that the news hasn't filtered through yet, since France has suffered the dreaded numbers collapse this winter. But otherwise, sometime after Ponticelli's state funeral, the French government are going to regret taking credit for the discovery of Riffaud and Jaffre. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 18:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

• He was the last 1914 veteran as well, and I think he saw battle before England got bogged down at Mons, meaning he would have fought before trench warfare (Mons was the last 'open' battle of the opening phase). So that's it - the last true link to the start of WWI has passed away :-( RichyBoy (talk) 22:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

In that sense it is the end of an era. Of course we still have a Western Front veteran remaining in Patch and Alpine Front vets in the 2 Italians. Kaestner was the last of the Central Powers on the WF and maybe Kuenstler for the AF despite being in the mounted artillery. If not him then I don't know. Boris Klovsky was the last Russian and was also in the cavalry. He may have been the last Ally on the Eastern Front. Some Poles outlived him but they later fought against the Bolsheviks. Presumably they would have opted to fight for Germany as the lesser of 2 evils. Wilhelm Remmert may have been the last Central vet on the EF, although he died before Rudolf Christmann. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 00:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

I think Ponticelli's death was a big blow, and it appears he was the last to have been in service every year 1914-1918. Well, I'm glad to see Borroni is still with us. Who knows he may end up being the last Italian Veteran. The British seem to be hanging in there with 6 out of the 13 remaining! Did anyone see the news clip showing Buckles going to Washington where Bush greeted him (I don't know if he gave him an award or anything). (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) 04:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the "he's not long for this world" boat for Borroni has long since sailed. It also irritated me when they said John Babcock was unable to attend. Makes it sound like he's at death's door. Washington State to Washington DC is a hell of a journey for anyone, let alone a 107 year old. Conversely, Buckles' home in Charles Town is only 80 miles away. A lot more realistic.

When Harry Patch didn't go to Buckingham Palace last summer the doom-mongers were out again. Admittedly Wells to London would only take a few hours along the M4 motorway, but it's stupid to take chances when you're 109 and not 100%. Even I could be too ill to attend, although obviously that's unlikely, but then I'm in my twenties and he's in his hundreds. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 16:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

I agree with the two above comments. Mr. Patch stated last year, that each time he travels, it wears him out a little more each time. Travel is rough on people twenty years younger than these veterans. If Washington D.C. has any type of award to give to Mr. Babcock, they should go to him. (PershingBoy)162.114.40.31 (talk) 18:43, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Mistaken Article

While looking for confirmation of Yakup Satar's 110th birthday on google.tk, I found this interesting article from Australia (I have no idea why it showed up on news.google.tk) that enumerates what are supposedly the last nine veterans - it leaves off Syd Lucas, Gladys Powers, William Stone and their own John Campbell Ross! If anything, I thought they would have missed the non-English speaking ones, how strange. Cheers, CP 05:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The same thing happened to me. Gladys Powers is understandable because some people don't count women. The men didn't see action, but neither did John Babcock and they included him. Ross is especially surprising considering he's Australian born and his recent birthday. He and Lucas live in Victoria, not the outback. But compared to a lot of stuff online the article was really accurate. No-one seems to understand that men can attain 110. People criticise Wikipedia but we've got our facts right on this one. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 13:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

Please let us know of any updated articles on Birthdays like Yakup Satar's. Does anyone have information on Francesso Charrello health wise? We seem to have some information on all the others. (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) 18:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Gladys Powers - I stumbled upon this article, it's good to see a bit of recognition for one of the lesser talked about veterans. RichyBoy (talk) 00:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

And she's been said to be in poor health. Perhaps, as with Borroni and Kowalski, reports of her demise have been greatly exaggerated. 80.2.17.47 (talk) 02:04, 16 March 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

I wonder how that would take, if she ends up being the last one. Being a woman, I would say she has time on her side when considering ages of those ratio for men to women, close to and over the age of 110. (PershinBoy)63.3.10.129 (talk) 01:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Ironically, being completely incapacitated and isolated in a room in a nursing home could actually lengthen one's lifespan; since she would not be expending any energy or contacting germs from other people.JeepAssembler (talk) 20:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 20:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying, but isolation can shorten one's lifespan also. I'm sure there are nurses and family visitors. I think 50 sit-ups a day like Buckles does, or walking everyday like Babcock is the way to go. I personally would want to die if I was incapacitated and isolated - I would have little reason to go on. Anyway, point taken. Plus and negative to both views. (PershinBoy)209.244.188.174 (talk) 00:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

U.S.A. vs. A.H.E.?

According to my encyclopedia at home; the United States of America declared war on the Austro-Hungarian Empire on December 7th, 1917 (An easy date to remember, exactly 24 years prior to the Pearl Harbor attack). Although I have long known of the state of war between the two nations (Just not the date on which it was declared); I have never read about combat between American and Austro-Hungarian troops. I am curious for information on this subject; were American troops deployed to the Italian and/or Serbian fronts against the A.H.E.? (Even if only in small numbers in reserve or support roles). Perhaps more realistically, were A.H.E. troops deployed against the Americans in France? Given the huge mobilizations of both France and the A.H.E. (roughly eight million each) and centuries of rivalry between the French and Hapsburgh's prior to WW1 it would seem logical that they would have clashed yet again. It's too bad that France has no more veterans; given the magnitude of fighting on it's soil.JeepAssembler (talk) 20:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 20:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Veterans will still be alive on November 11th, 2018? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.197.52.119 (talk) 18:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

No. Even Claude Choules and Frank Buckles would have to attain an age that only 4 women and no men have before, although none would have to be as old as Jeanne Calment. The centenary of the outbreak of war is more plausible, but still needing very rare ages. 78.145.3.12 (talk) 22:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC)Captain celery

It would be cool if one could make it until 2014. However, to be realistic we'll be lucky to have 4 or 5 make it to 2009. I think it is possible 1 or 2 could make it 2010-2011. (PershinBoy)162.114.40.31 (talk) 15:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

The odds against living each successive year at these ages are only about 50% (and perhaps less); a man celebrating his 109th birthday has at best 1/16th chance of living to his 113th. It should not be surprising that there where more supercentenarians on these lists two years ago than today, as probably five million or more WW1 veterans were born in each of the peak years of 1892, '93, and '94. By contrast, only about one million were born in 1900 or later. There is no purely physical reason why Buckles or Choules could not live until August, 2014; but it is statistically very unlikely. By the same token, it shouldn't surprise that Del Toro, Hardy, Johnson, Floquet, etc. lived to the ages they did; considering the year's they were born in. Anomalies can happen, Antonio Todde died just weeks shy of his 113th and was born way back in 1889; but I wouldn't count on lightning striking twice in this regard. Anyway, my original purpose in this post was to find out if anyone has knows about or could direct me where to find information pertaining to military conflict between the United States and Austro-Hungarian Empire (or was there none, with the U.S.A. merely declaring war on and severing relations with the A.H.E. and seizing any Hapsburgh assets it could).JeepAssembler (talk) 00:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 00:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Evening all, as far as I am aware the only major engagement between the USA and AHE was the battle of Vittorio Veneto - see here http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/vittorioveneto.htm for a brief overview, and even there the USA involvement was limited. As far as I am aware the AHE only fought on the Eastern and Alpine fronts, and certainly by the time the USA declared war the AHE was in no position to be sending soldiers to the western front, in fact Germany was having to prop up the AHE on the Alpine front by then. Hope this helps SRwiki (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank You, SRwiki.JeepAssembler (talk) 19:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)JeepAssemblerJeepAssembler (talk) 19:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)