Talk:Supporting Harry Potter characters

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[edit] Bathilda Bagshot

I think that Bathilda can be considered a mayor character, her role is very important in Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows, she is more important than a lot of characters that doesn't appear in this list. --200.75.94.42 15:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

No she's not, she's a minor. Especially if you consider the whole book series, she does not even appear (until after her death) she's only mentioned. And as characters like Krum or Dung are here, she is absolutely a minor character. Chandlertalk 15:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victoire Weasley

It has been suggested her page is moved here however it also appears to be up for deletion. How necessary is it that we have some information on her seeing as she is only mentioned in the epilogue to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows [[User:AiselneDrossel[[User talk:AiselneDrossel]]]] 11:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


Actually I have a question about her, how is she known to be the daughter of Bill? I see no place where the series suggests this, but who knows, maybe I misread the book. Please can someone find a quote? Yoman786 22:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Yoman786

"Victoire, who was snogging Teddy — Lupin and Tonks’ son — is Bill and Fleur’s eldest."
"Finished ‘Potter’? Rowling tells what happens next"
—wwoods 22:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Yoman786 17:36, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I am of the opinion that this article, despite it's status of stub is comprehensive and if merged would need to be watered down, Arabella Figg does have a significant role in the fifth book and perhaps sh should have her own article? AiselneDrossel 13:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

  • I am unsure about Figg (although her significance is minimal), but I do believe that Gabrielle Delacour should be Merged with this article. -Inventm 04:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
I definitly don't think that she has a big enough part in the book to have her own article. The reason there is a Harry Potter Wiki is to take care of all the minor cheracters. If not just deleting all info, we should just merge her into this article.  Bella Swan(Talk!) 19:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
inserting anyone here is no reason to delete information about them. If there is too much information to fit comfortably here, then they need their own article. Sandpiper 10:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge everyone but Tonks. All the others are minor enough to be here. Tonks should be up for further discussion. Valley2city 20:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't merge Tonks or Mundungus. They are pivotal characters in Deathly Hallows.

Andromeda Tonks is a minor character and should be merged. Her daughter (Nymphadora Tonks aka "Tonks") is notable. I disagree with the merge proposal for Nagini, though, especially since she was a horcrux. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 20:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 7 Letters...

I'm just noting that the entry on Bridget Wenlock is confusing: it says that JK Rowling has 7 letters in her first and last name, while in reality she doesnt: Joanne has 6 letters. Is this referring to Bridget Wenlock, (7 letters in both) or just a mistake?62.108.16.246 15:37, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I've edited to read "Even Bridget Wenlock's name has ...". I think its much clearer.62.108.16.246 15:37, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wizards of the month.

I was wondering if Wizards of the month should really be mentioned here. Although they can be presumed to be characters in the Potterverse they aren't really likly to show up in the books. E-flah 11:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

This is 'minor Harry Potter characters'. Not 'minor characters from the Harry Potter books'. The presumption is on the character originating from Rowling, not on appearing in the books - all information she releases is as much part of 'the canon' as the books themselves. Michael Sanders 16:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
But there are so many minor characters. If we put them all, the page will soon become too long. The Lexicon has nearly 100 characters, we can't possibly put them all here. Would it be all right to put this link on the bottom of the page? http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html It has every character in the Potterverse world.Therequiembellishere 06:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
If the page ever gets too long, that would be worth considering. Until then, there is no need to change it. Michael Sanders 10:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
But considering that people who want a complete encyclopedia keep adding characters, the page will be way over the limit; I actually agree that we should limit this to characters to at least appear in the series.Therequiembellishere 22:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that we can cross that bridge when we come to it. This really isn't a major issue - this article is perfectly manageable at the moment, so there is no need to restrict what is included. If and when there comes a day when it is out of control (possibly as soon as the new book), we can decide what to do. But until then, it is more unnecessary to restrict article inclusion, for the sake of "what if?"s. Michael Sanders 22:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
One possible compromise is to list all the wizards of the month in bulletpoint form in one single section. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 01:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I like that idea. Therequiembellishere 23:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Quite honestly, the time has come that the page has become too long. I am a big Harry Potter fan, but most of the characters on this page don't have dialouge from the book and the book would still be the same if the characters were taken out of the books. If you're really think about it, most of these characters belong on the Harry Potter Wiki, not Wikipedia. This page really needs some major cleaning.  Bella Swan(Talk!) 19:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I had just removed the Wizard of the Month section because I beleive it to be very plainly against WP:NB and/or WP:NOTE. These 'characters' are not even in the book series and have no dialouge in the books. If these charcters were taken out of JK Rowlings books (If actually in any of the books...) there would be no significant change to the books. If you look at a universal stand point, not just within the Harry Potter universe, you can see that these fictional characters are not near notable enough to have mention in this article in Wikipedia.  Bella Swan(Talk!) 01:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Stan Shunpike.jpg

Image:Stan Shunpike.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stan Shunpike?

I thought that Stan Shunpike, while chasing Harry and Hagrid at the chase scene, was acting upon the Imperius Curse, so he wasn't a Death Eater? (I may be totally wrong, however)

That's only what Harry believed, there is not evidence either way 86.141.170.82 11:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

It shouldnt state that he was imperiused. There is technically NO evidence that he was. Harry wants to believe it but that doesn't make it true? If I don't get a response, I'm gonna toss the imperiused part off his profile in a couple days. Alamar2001 04:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Importance

This article has many people in it that have no part in the book at all. One example is 'Andros the Invincible'. This person doesn't have any dialouge or anything in the book. Wikipedia should not take care of these characters, they are less than minor. That is what the Harry Potter Wiki is for. I'm going to try to take some of these characters out of the article, as they do not belong here.  Bella Swan(Talk!) 19:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Amount of Information

Some articles that are being considered merged with this article have a large amount of information. It would be stupid to shorten the information and merge the articles (I always say 'the more information the better'!). (Unsigned)

I disagree with 'the more information the better', especially when the information is original research or poorly written (or even just a plot summary). Also, please remember to sign your articles with four tildas (~). CaveatLectorTalk 19:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think there is enough information on Nagini that Nagini should definitely stay as a separate page. Subsequent editors often fix problems with poor writing styles, or find more research to support points of view in the articles. Userafw 04:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the point about the Nagini article and other articles that needs to be made, it that these characters are not important enough to have their own article. Certainly in the series Nagini was important; it was a horcrux. But if you look at it from a universal standing point, Nagini isn't that important. Right now there are so many HP related articles that belong in the Harry Potter Wiki, not Wikipedia and I think Nagini is one of them.  Bella Swan(Talk!) 13:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Pius Thicknesse

I put him in the Minor Ministry officials in Harry Potter article, because this is, where he belongs. Neville Longbottom 17:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cadmus Peverell

Although it is obvious that the resurrection stone was passed down to the Gaunt family, it is also clearly stated that Cadmus kills himself to join the woman he never married. The fact that he even summoned her from dead implies that he wasn't married and died before he could pass it on. Thoughts?

I pointed this out on a discussion forum after reading the book but someone pointed out that it's just a fairy tale, and although the Peverells were real we don't know that the tale accurately describes what happened to them. 91.105.32.187 22:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Celestina Warbeck

As she is mentioned as a popular singer in the Harry Potter wizarding universe, shouldn't she be added here? Simply south 00:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victoire Weasley -- Placement

Why is Victoire in the Minor Harry Potter characters section? She is in the Grandchildren of the Weasley Family section as well.

SapphireSprite 03:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I've fixed it.  Bella Swan(Talk!) 19:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concerns - Wizard of the Month

Do we know the provenance of the information from these? The art is fan-art, and a lot of the site is populated by fan-cruft. I think we need to clearly be able to prove that this info is coming from JKR herself, or it needs to be removed right quick. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcayne (talk • contribs) 14:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Florean Fortescue

I followed a link on the Diagon Alley Page. It said Florean Fortescue but when I got here there wa no mention of him. Could somebody fix that because I haven't got a clue how to!! 90.194.220.14 13:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I've been putting Mr. Fortescue in the article, but somebody keeps removing him, without explanation. Perhaps because all the available information is already in the Diagon Alley article. That would be acceptable, but the explanation should be given, really. Erudil 18:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Das Baz (talk • contribs) . It is not "unsigned." Erudil=Das Baz. Erudil 18:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The user who has removed it has given a reason. Please review the history. faithless (speak) 20:28, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Most of the book authors and owners of stores are incidental characters. Florean's former section is larger than his appearances in the book (and the section is about 2 lines). This article about "Minor characters" features characters with some involvement or participation in the plot but that do not fit in other articles (students, staff, dark wizards, ministry, etc.) Maybe we can edit the link from the Diagon Alley article to redirect to the List of HP characters or remove the link itself. Lord Opeth 00:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Augusta Longbottom and Stan Shunpike

Somebody please ask Mistress Jo Rowling whether Augusta survived the battle and whether Stan was evil or imperiused. Thank you. Erudil 16:41, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I think that, until this is claryfied, we should remove both questions. Lord Opeth 17:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Teddy's full name

Did Jo say that Teddy's full name is Ted Remus Lupin? Because, on page 515 of the American hardback edition, Lupin makes a toast "To Teddy Remus Lupin" — that, to me, indicates that Teddy is Teddy's full first name, not Ted. — Charity (talk) 01:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

If the boy is named "after Dora's father", then Teddy is just a puppet name for Ted. Lord Opeth (talk) 02:36, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
A person can be named after someone without being given the exact same name — a girl named Caitlin could be named after her grandmother Catherine. Furthermore, Ted Tonks's real name could have been Teddy, or even Theodore. It just doesn't make sense for Lupin to make a toast to "Teddy Remus Lupin" if his real name is Ted Remus Lupin. That would be like making a toast to Bill Arthur Weasley instead of William Arthur Weasley. — Charity (talk) 19:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is Teddy Half-Blood?

JKR didn't say Teddy was Half-Blood did she? I mean we know that Ted and Andromeda Tonks were magic and at least one of Remus' parents must have been as he's half-blood but couldn’t Teddy be pure-blood instead of half-blood in the same way that Harry's kids are? Shouldn’t it say something like "at lest half-blood" or "half-blood or pure-blood" Uponlocal (talk) 23:54, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

It depends on whether Lupin's parents were both wizards or a wizard and a Muggle. Do we know either way? -- Noneofyourbusiness (talk) 02:44, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I get the impression from the books that they are wizards (blood status uknown) they seemed to be familiar with the wizarding world, according to HPL "Ancestry: Half-blood (one Muggle parent or grandparent)", "Father: Unknown; offended Fenrir Greyback (HBP15)." Chandlertalk 03:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I've looked up on a load of sites and most of them say that his dad was pureblood but them keep saying either muggle (HP Wiki) or muggle-born for his mum. But I agree with Chandlerand i think it's most likely that his mum is muggleborn Uponlocal (talk) 23:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use image removals

The images on this page have been removed per Wikipedia:NFC#Unacceptable_images. One user who put them back cited Wikipedia:NFC#Acceptable_images, I assume citing point 5 specifically. While that might seem valid, it is further modified by what I cited. Yes we can use screenshots. For example, we could use one on Lord Voldemort (which does). That's acceptable. But, the use of the images here on this character list is not acceptable. Please do not re-insert the images as this violates our policies on minimal fair use usage and the guideline descendant from it. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 00:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you have not yet given an acceptable reason for removing the images, as far as I can see. As you said, use of screen shots is permissible, and they are often used. Why would you say that it is acceptable for the Voldemort article and not here? BTW, thanks for bringing this to the talk page. Still, until a reason is given, the pictures should stay. Cheers, faithless (speak) 01:43, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
AS said in Wikipedia:NFC#Unacceptable_images, any fair use image is not allowed to be used in any sort of list, as a list of charcters or such is not notable enough to be covered under fair use. ~ Bella Swan 03:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I remember that Characters of Final Fantasy VIII achieved FA status - it is a list of characters and uses images too. Lord Opeth (talk) 03:13, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I think in these types of cases, what is said at Wikipedia:NFC#Acceptable_images sort of trumps (for lack of a better word) Wikipedia:NFC#Unacceptable_images. Specifically, where Wikipedia:NFC#Unacceptable_images says

The use of non-free media in lists, galleries, discographies, and navigational and user-interface elements is generally unacceptable because it usually fails the test for significance (criterion #8).

I have emphasized the word 'usually' here, as I believe that a list of fictional characters is one such example of when using non-free images (in this case, screenshots) is acceptable. And as Lord Opeth pointed out, there is precedent here, with at least one such article even attaining FA status. faithless (speak) 12:40, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
There is no 'trumping' going on. If there was, we could just as well state that the unacceptable part trumps the acceptable part. They work in concert, not at odds with each other. Both parts of the guideline are important to understand how screenshots can be used. They may NOT be used on character lists. See the unacceptable images part as previously cited and follow it. A group image is acceptable. Individual images per character are not. If the edit warring continues to attempt to force these images back onto the article, I will recommend blocks. Note that upholding our non-free content criteria is not subject to WP:3RR restrictions. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Everyone here has until now been able to discuss this rationally and civilly, and I would encourage you to modify your tone. Threatening people with blocks is not only uncivil, but is downright ridiculous in this case, as there has been no edit warring. Again, precedent is against you here. I admit that this is an odd case, as the guideline contradicts itself. But you're ignoring one part in favor of another, when, again, precedent is to do otherwise. Aside from the FA article mentioned above, I give you List of minor Star Wars Rebel characters, List of minor Star Wars droids, List of minor Star Wars bounty hunters, List of minor Star Wars characters, etc. And that's just a few articles for one series. Not only does the guideline allow for the use of screenshots, but there is ample precedent for allowing them in these sorts of articles. Hammersoft, I urge you to remain civil, as everyone else here has done, and not to remove the images again without consensus. faithless (speak) 21:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
No edit warring you say? Please have a look at [1]. Since I removed the images according to policy 31 hours ago, the images have been re-instated three times. Edit warring has most emphatically been happening. My comments were aimed to stop that from continuing. As to precedent, the existence of images on lists like this does not make policy. The foundation's mission, resolution, and our local edp policy and guideline stand against this usage. You insist there is disagreement in the guideline. There isn't. As I noted above, they work in concert to best describe the application, not at odds with each other. I'm quite aware there's plenty of articles that are in violation of this policy. I can cite you just as many where the images have been removed under this policy. Consensus already exists to remove the images. If they are re-instated against policy, I will remove them and recommend blocks. This policy is no different in that respect than any other policy. Acting against our policies here is not acceptable editing and will not be tolerated. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hammersoft, you have been asked not to re-introduce your edits without consensus in this Talk page and you did it again. Please, until we manage to get a result out of this discussion, the images should remain. Faithless and I have provided links to other lists of fictional characters using image. We can use that screenshots to illustrate the characters we are refering to. Unlike many other lists (e.g. List of James Bond henchmen in GoldenEye), we are using only one image per character. --Lord Opeth (talk) 00:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Hammersoft, please consider this your first warning for incivility. A couple of civil reverts does not an edit war make. Please stop threatening to have other editors blocked for disagreeing with you. Yes, since you removed the images multiple editors have reinstated them. Perhaps you should step back and consider why this has happened. You have been reverted by more than one editor, shown the specific guideline to support those reverts, and shown that this is common practice on Wikipedia. A look through your talk page history shows that you have been at this for some time now, going from page to page trying to remove images from Wikipedia, and not having much success. Also, please format your discussions properly; do not insert an asterisk before your comments. Other editors have expressed their suspicion that you are a sock, and this practice suggests the same to me. And contrary to what you might think, sock puppetry is not acceptable. If, as you claim, consensus exists to remove images from articles such as this, please do show it to us. Until you do, the images stay. faithless (speak) 05:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I'll make it several better. I'll consider it the final warning and note that is it not relevant. WP:3RR specifically excludes upholding non-free content criteria from 3RR. Those of you arguing in favor of these images are failing to see some crucial points. First, the Foundation specifically proscribed the use of fair use images except within narrow limits. Across the various character pages for this fictional universe, there's more than 150 fair use images. That is completely unacceptable. No amount of argumentation can make a case that this 150+ image use is "narrow". That's just the beginning. I've cited policy, precedent, ongoing efforts. You've cited articles that simply haven't been cleansed yet. As I noted, I can cite just as many articles for every article you cite. Looking at Wikipedia:Featured lists, the only article there that has "characters" in the title has not a single image on it; List of Metal Gear Solid characters. The images have been gone from that article for three months, removed by User:Danny, a former employee of the Foundation. I could go on for a long while here. As to consensus, it has already been achieved. Having to achieve consensus every time policy is applied is tantamount to making policy meaningless. For a related debate, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2007-05-07/Fair_use. If you want to change consensus on this, begin by taking it up at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content, which will provide for centralized discussion to stop this sort of removal from happening all over the project. Having a discussion on every talk page of every article where this happens is counterproductive. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

For the last time, please stop threatening your fellow editors. This has nothing to do with a content dispute or 3RR (which no one has broken), but rather with your incivility. If you make another baseless threat against another editor, I will block you for incivility. Everyone else here has been perfectly calm and polite; please respond in kind. Furthermore, you have been asked to format your conversations properly, and apparently refuse to do so. I have no idea why you insist on inserting your little asterisks, nor do I care. But it is disruptive, and I have asked you very politely not to do it. You have also been asked repeatedly to not insert your changes until this discussion has concluded. This you have failed to do. Wikipedia works on consensus. Regardless of who is right, there is a dispute, and we need to sort out consensus. You may very well be right, but do not ignore policy and simply insist you're right, edit war and make threats to others who dare question you. It's just bad form, and that sort of behavior will lead to a block in itself. I will join in the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content, and hopefully soon a consensus will form (it most certainly has not yet). Let me make this clear - if the consensus is to remove images from these articles, that is fine with me. Really, I don't care it all, I'll join in removing them. But that has not yet been decided. A discussion at WP:AN does not equal policy, and the applicable guideline, as it is currently written, is vague at best. Most importantly, however, I urge you, Hammersoft, to remain civil when engaging in discussion with other editors. Everyone else has been able to, there is no reason why you can't also. faithless (speak) 20:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Then block me now. In so doing, please point to precisely where I have been uncivil. I *have* noted that revert warring over this issue is a blockable offense, and my continued efforts to keep fair use images to a minimum on this page is protected by WP:3RR. I've noted that I believe twice now. Yes, that does constitute a threat to end the revert war. Since that threat was ignored, and since more than one person was quite happy to revert war over this, I requested page protection and gotten it. So by all means, please go ahead and block me for incivility, but be very careful that you make it very clear where I was uncivil and outside the bounds of policy. I would strongly discourage you from blocking someone for using an asterisk in their comments. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 17:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Another thought about this...I'd be exceptionally careful about using your admin powers against me since you've been involved in the edit war on this article. Admins have lost their admin status over such usage. Just a recommendation, not a threat. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
My involvement in this article has been the only reason I have not blocked you yet. Since it was me you were threatening repeatedly to have blocked, I was able to shrug it off, knowing I hadn't done anything even approaching block-worthy. But a man can only take so much. There comes a time where the threats become to numerous to ignore, and you've been fast approaching that, evevn though I have repeatedly appealed to you to remain civil. faithless (speak) 17:44, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I have remained civil at all times. Revert warring is a blockable offense. I have made no insult against anyone. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
In some contexts, using asterisks is the norm. This is not the case on talk pages. Continuing as you are just shows your contempt for your fellow editors. You want me to show you exactly where you've been uncivil? Just scroll up. The discussion was perfectly amicable until out of the blue you began threatening users to have them blocked, never mind that no one had done anything even approaching being worthy of a block. Also daring admins to block you is usually the fastest way to get yourself blocked. I don't believe in blocking people I'm having a content dispute with, even if there are legitimate reasons to do so, such as incivility. I also am not a fan of shifty moves like requesting page protection to seal in your preferred version, when multiple other editors have reverted you and asked you to defend your edits. Until you are able to produce a policy or guideline which supports your edits, please stop the edit warring. faithless (speak) 17:42, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I just showed you WP:AN, which is not covered at WP:TALK, as an example of how common the use of asterisks in discussion is. I listed 20 editors who use asterisks there. Yet, I'm in the wrong. I'm the one showing contempt for users. I can't believe this. For the sake of easing your attacks against me over asterisks and threatening to block for same because it's some form of contempt of my fellow editors, I'll stop using them on this page and any other page you edit, so I can best avoid you. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitrary section break

I find it in incredibly poor taste that Hammersoft would change the article to his preferred version, and with his very next edit request full page protection. This is edit warring at it's worst. Therefore, I will revert to the previous version. Hammersoft, as I've said before, if you can show a policy or guideline that supports what you're doing, I will jump in and join you. However, so far as I can see there has been no consensus reached; indeed the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content shows that this topic is still being hotly debated. Until the issue is settled, please stop the edit warring. faithless (speak) 17:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

What? What?????? WP:RFPP had, when I edited it, 2 requests backlogged ahead of mine dating two hours before mine. What I did was the right course of action since more than one person was involved in the edit war forcing images back onto the article. I could care less what version it got sealed in. But asking for protection was the right course of action. I could have asked for and probably received at least warnings against you and Opeth for edit warring against policy. But, I instead I chose a middle road that avoided that in an attempt to stop the war without raising the heat of the debate. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:39, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Again, Opeth and I have done nothing that even approaches being in violation of policy. You have come perilously close to breaking 3RR, have made several threats, and have made what is at the very least a questionable decision in asking for page protection just after editing an article. Here, let's try to start this all over; I'm going to state my case as clearly as I can, and I ask that you try to understand where I'm coming from and consider the possibility that I might have a point (I realize this might sound patronizing, I assure you that that is not my intent at all; I'm just trying to reach an agreement here :)):
Hammersoft, you have come along and removed images from this article, stating that fair-use images are not appropriate for "list" articles (though it's worth pointing out that this isn't List of Harry Potter characters; such images would certainly be inappropriate there). Your edits have been challenged by two regular editors to the article, and we have asked you for a policy or guideline to support your edits. You so far have been unable to provide this. The closest thing you've shown us is Wikipedia:Non-free content; you might have something there, but that particular guideline is extremely poorly worded, no matter which side you're on, so much so that we have both used it to defend our position. I think we both make good points when referring to this guideline, but the language is so muddled that it really does neither of us any good. The discussion at WP:AN is esentially worthless, if it doesn't lead to a change in a policy or guideline. The Foundation policy you cited in one of your edit summaries is similarly of no use here. That policy pretty much states that the use of fair-use images is up to the discretion of the individual projects. That pretty much puts us back at square one. As I've said several times, if it is ultimately decided to remove the images, that is fine with me. Really, absolutely don't care either way. But you need to show us the specific policy or guideline that supports the removal. So far, the consensus on this talk page is to leave the images where they are. Obviously, that doesn't mean diddly if there is a larger, community-wide consensus which says otherwise, and in turn leads to a change in the guideline. But until that happens, or until you show us where it has happened, I believe you're in the wrong here. Now, I don't even doubt that you are more well-versed in image policy than I am, as it's always been my weak point. I'll go so far as to say you're probably right about all of this. But we need proof! If you give us that, I'll remove the images myself. But like I said in an above post, Wikipedia runs on consensus, and as it stands at this moment, I haven't seen any consensus to remove the images. And come on, let's play nice, there's no need for threats of blocks. It's only the internet. :) faithless (speak) 18:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm not going to debate this further with you. Thank you and good day, --Hammersoft (talk) 18:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grindelwald

Ok, why is he under the Minor HP Characters section? First, he had his own page. Second, he was under Dark Wizards page. But now, he's on this page. What's the deal?DeathMark (talk) 14:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

He isn't considered notable enough in the series to have his own page, and the Dark Wizards page was redirected to Death Eaters. He isn't a Death Eater, so he was put on the Minor characters page because it was the best place he fit. ~ Bella Swan 15:14, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you need to reread the DH book again.DeathMark (talk) 22:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you need to read the Wikipedia policy about Notability. He was somehow important in the story, but not as important as a main character, and an article for him is not notable for encyclopedic purposes. --Lord Opeth (talk) 05:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Andromeda's house

I don't know that we can really say that Andromeda was definitely in Slytherin because Sirius said that his "whole family was in Slytherin" - this could have been an overstatement, i.e. "There wasn't a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin" (Hagrid). Characters' words are not necessarily canonical. Frickeg (talk) 03:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

You could be right, but that's speculation. Sirius said his whole family was in Slytherin, and there's no reason to doubt that. faithless (speak) 04:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Also Slughorn said that. He said that he had all the Blacks in his house except Sirius. I provided references for both statements. --Lord Opeth (talk) 00:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
My point was more that neither reference mentions Andromeda; both characters could conceivably be exaggerating. Frickeg (talk) 00:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, they could be, but without any evidence, there's no reason to assume they are. faithless (speak) 00:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Split

I think that any of these characters are notable enough to be in a separate list. I am not meaning create articles on all this characters again. I am just meaning split the more notable characters into List of recurring Harry Potter characters

Probably debatable but i was particularly thinking:

  • The Fat Lady
  • Viktor Krum
  • Augusta Longbottom
  • Narcissa Malfoy
  • Olympe Maxime
  • Mr Ollivander
  • Madam Rosmerta
  • Stan Shunpike
  • Rita Skeeter

Simply south (talk) 12:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that we can rename the article to "Supporting Harry Potter characters" including those that are already listed, to avoid having 2 weak lists. --Lord Opeth (talk) 23:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect of Walburga Black

Walburga Black was an extremely incidental character in the series, and the inclusion criteria in this article (and for all of the characters lists) is for characters with some involvement and several mentions, which Walburga failed to meet because she was never named in the series, and her only appearances were in her portrait screaming stuff. No information is lost with this redirect as almost all her article is covered in Sirius Black's, mainly in the Family section (the former Black family article redirects there).

The first paragraph is information from the Black family tree:

Walburga Black was the matriarch of the House of Black, and unlike most members of the Black family, her name is not related to a star or constellation. She was born in 1925, to Pollux Black and Irma Crabbe, her brothers being Alphard and Cygnus Black. She married her second cousin, Orion Black, and was the mother of Sirius and Regulus Black, and also paternal aunt of Bellatrix Lestrange, Andromeda Tonks, and Narcissa Malfoy.

The second paragraph was about the removals from the Black family tree, especially those of Sirius, Andromeda, and Uncle Alphard.

After her son Sirius ran away from home, Walburga blasted his name off of the family tree that is displayed on a decorative tapestry in the ancestral Black family home at Number 12, Grimmauld Place. She also removed the name of her brother Alphard, who bequeathed money to Sirius, and that of her niece Andromeda for marrying Ted Tonks, a Muggle-born (her daughter Nymphadora Tonks, was never added).

This information was obtained from the Black family tree, and Sirius' Early Life section also mentions that:

At age 16, Sirius finally broke with his family and took refuge with James and his parents. His offended and outraged mother burned his name off the family tree. Sirius' Uncle Alphard left him a large inheritance, causing Walburga to also remove Alphard's name. Sirius was left financially independent by his Uncle’s generous bequest.

The next paragraph contained stuff about Sirius and Andromeda rather than Walburga, and also some stuff covered in the family section too:

Sirius hated his mother and the rest of his family for their fanaticism. He and his cousin Andromeda were rarities in the Black clan, as Sirius once said that the Black family rarely produced people who were even "halfway decent". Walburga was a bigot who viewed Muggles and Muggle-borns with disdain. She supported Lord Voldemort, but changed her mind after she discovered what he was willing to do to get power. However, it is assumed she held the belief that Voldemort and the Death Eaters "had the right idea". Even so, it was implied in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix that she was kind to her house-elf Kreacher, earning his reverence even after her death.

The Black Family section explains that: The Blacks believed in Voldemort's idea of "purifying the Wizarding race", but many, such as Sirius' parents, refrained from outwardly supporting him once they saw what he was willing to do for power.

The last paragraph was for mentions about the portrait:

She died in 1985, but her portrait remained at Number 12, Grimmauld Place, attached to the wall with a Permanent Sticking Charm, where it screamed insults at the various members of the Order of the Phoenix, including her son Sirius, after they made the house their headquarters. Walburga also kept giving orders to Kreacher. In the portrait she appears as a hysterical woman in a black cap, her eyes rolling and her yellow-skinned face stretched taut.

To avoid cruft and repeated information, Walburga Black now redirects to Sirius Black#Family. --Lord Opeth (talk) 02:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gwenog Jones

I have written a section on Gwenog Jones several times, but every time a Gwenog-hater erases her. I give up (for now). The Gwenog-hater wins (for now). Das Baz, aka Erudil 17:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

(moved discussion to bottom of page) That's because Gwenog is not a "supporting Harry Potter character". She is mentioned, ONLY mentioned, once or twice throughout the course of the books. That makes her a... uh, I dunno what the technical term is, but she's not meant for this page. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 23:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Trombonator, she is mentioned three times in the books, twice in the Half-Blood Prince and once in the Deathly Hallows. If she is not a supporting character, what is she? That is what she is, until you can come up with a better term. Das Baz, aka Erudil 18:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Das Baz (talk • contribs) Sinebot is wrong. The comment is not "unsigned." Das Baz, aka Erudil 17:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Three mentions is hardly more than one or two mentions. Let's do not forget that we can not include EVERY Harry Potter character. There is already a list for all characters. And also there is a Harry Potter wikia and a Muggle's Guide. Gwenog is an incidental character. She is barely mentioned in the series, she has no plot involvement, and she has no physical appearances. This list of Supporting characters features prominent characters that have no place in other character pages like Rita Skeeter, Viktor Krum, Gellert Grindelwald, Narcissa Malfoy or Ollivander. We can not include characters like Gwenog, and Florean Fortescue, Madam Malkin, Ernie Prang, and the lady with the trolley in the Hogwarts express, because they are characters with little importance, and little notability. --Lord Opeth (talk) 01:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Lord Opeth, for that bit highlighted in bold. Of course, now we must fear the creation of Incidental Harry Potter characters. :D -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR 05:14, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Opeth says there already is a list for all characters. Well, where is it? We certainly want to see that list, and the List of Incidental Characters as well. I still say that three is more than two, but I admit that "Incidental" is more accurate than "Supporting" when it comes to Gwenog the Welsh Witch. Das Baz, aka Erudil 17:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The list of all characters is here: List of Harry Potter characters. Gwenog obviously appears there, with all the information about her: "Hogwarts student before Harry's time, captain and Beater for the Holyhead Harpies Quidditch team, J. K. Rowling's Wizard of the Month for June 2004". What else should we add to this? Is that line worth of a whole section? That statement covers ALL her background. Being a character with only three mentions and no plot involvement or importance at all, a whole section along with characters such as Rita Skeeter or Viktor Krum is completely needless.
As for a List of Incidental Characters, I strongly oppose. We were working with notability some months ago and that's why important characters like Lupin, Bellatrix, McGonagall, Umbridge, etc. do not have individual pages. A list of incidental characters in the HP story like Gwenog, Florean, Madam Malkim, Cecilia, Colonel Fubster, etc. would never meet the criteria required for notability in fiction, and would certainly be deleted two days after its creation. --Lord Opeth (talk) 20:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Would it be possible to re-direct Florean Fortescue, Gwenog Jones, etc., to the List of Harry Potter characters instead of their being re-directed to an article in which they are not mentioned at all? This is a most reasonable request, I think. Das Baz, aka Erudil 15:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

It is a good idea. Gwenog already redirects to the List of characters though. Florean redirects to the section of his ice-cream shop. All his background is covered there. --Lord Opeth (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

You are right about Gwenog; thank you very much. What article has a section on the Fortescue Ice Cream Shop? Das Baz, aka Erudil 17:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The ice-cream shop is listed under Places in Harry Potter. --Lord Opeth (talk) 17:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Das Baz, aka Erudil 15:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peeves

Can Peeves be considered part of the Hogwarts staff or should he remain in this article? --Lord Opeth (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd keep him here; I don't think he's on the payroll. :) faithless (speak) 03:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)