Talk:Superman (1978 film)/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Hugo Award

No mention of the movie winning the 1979 Hugo award at Seacon in Brighton, England? Odd. --JohnDBuell | Talk 00:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Specifically it was the "Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation." --JohnDBuell | Talk 00:46, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Correct me on the Mentioning of the Animated Series

Now I happen to be a major fan of that Awesome cartoon from the 90's, but What I am unclear about is where it says in the reaction section "The movie's legacy includes numerous television series, notably Superboy (produced, like the movie, by Alexander Salkind), Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, Superman: The Animated Series, and the current prequel series, Smallville, which have all been influenced by the movie to some extent." Now I can understand how the live action Superboy series, Lois & Clark, and Smallville are clearly influenced by this film, but What exact Inspiration is there in the Animated Series with THIS MOVIE. Because that Cartoon Presents itself to be FAR Different from what you compare to this movie. Some examples would be the plot development with some of the supporting characters like Keeping BOTH the Kent Parents, and the Portrayal of some of the better comic book vilians the superman faces. So What Are THE Similarities? Nathen

The Earth does NOT spin backwards....

... it just looks that way because he is going back in time. Honestly, we have two possible interpretations, one of which makes sense and the other of which is completely ridiculous. Why would anyone favour the second one? Admittedly they did an extraordinarily poor job of explaining it (I think the audience was supposed to get it based on Jor-El's warning not to interfere with history, but that was much too subtle). But, that doesn't make the nonsense interpretation "obviously" right.

Therefore, I'm un-reverting this change. If someone disagrees, that's fine but I think this interpretation should at least be mentioned somewhere. (Also, the reversion also put back a grammatical error I fixed. Like the guidelines say, if you're going to revert, avoid collateral damage.)

Refresh my memory - when he's done "spinning it backwards", does he not then appear to "spin it back forwards"? Also, do you have any evidence of this from the script, or is this a personal theory? --Golbez 22:03, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
Well, unfortunately for both of us, the publically available shooting script doesn't have that scene at all. Superman rescues Lois on the first try. (Everything else from Tessmacher rescuing Superman onwards pretty much proceeds as per the finished movie.) I'd welcome a look at the final script, or a look at interviews with someone like Salkind. It just seems to me that there are two explanations on the table, and one is ridiculous, so the other should be preferred, even if it seems less obvious to most people.
Having said that, I reiterate that if someone wants to re-edit the page so that part is worded less strongly, I don't really have a problem with that, but I do think the interpretation I brought up should at least be mentioned.
How is it any more ridiculous than a baby from another planet having super powers? ;) I'll try to slip it in. --Golbez 05:20, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
That's just a genre convention; a better point would be that it requires a selective reading of Einsteinean physics for the alternative to work. Let me stay instead that one explanation is, by a very large margin, more ridiculous than the other.


.......................... From the published story, Lex, Otis, and Eve, learn of Superman's weaknesses (he is unable to see through lead, and he is vulnerable to the substance Kryptonite), and Luthor finds out that a meteorite of the needed mineral is available at Addis Ababa. A

Did he really tell them that in the interview? A major lack of discretion!

In the interview with Lois, Superman said he was from Krypton and could not see through lead. He did not say anything about vulnerability to kryptonite, Lex Luthor deduced that somehow. Luthor's "explanation" to his moronic underlings about kryptonite being lethal only to Superman because of "the specific level of radiation" is scientific nonsense, but they had to come up with something. As far as "turning back the world", Superman can fly faster than the speed of light when he puts his mind to it, as per the comics. In fact there's something about flying "clockwise" vs. "counterclockwise" depending on which direction in time he's going, and that is visually alluded to on-screen, as he flies one direction around the globe to go backwards in time, and the other direction to go forwards (having apparently overshot his stopping point initially, or whatever). The fact that he could fly faster than the speed of light at that point, but was only able to catch up with one of the two rockets a little while earlier, is another slight hole in the plotline. Either that, or he can't exceed light speed unless he's really annoyed. Wahkeenah 00:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

The first thing you mentioned was a plot hole, and... not really related to the discussion. As fpr the second thing you mentioned, Salkind and Donner both state on the audio commentaries for the film that Superman is spinning back the world. (Donner actually says that he "stops" the world's rotation briefly before causing it to spin back again. Absurd as that concept seems, I wouldn't expect most filmmakers in 1978 to be particularly concerned or knowledgable about quantum physics. Moreover, I would have even less expectation that the average moviegoer in 1978 would care. Despite the absurdity of this idea, it is no doubt what the filmmakers intended. The anatomy of the dinosaurs in Wallace and Cooper's King Kong doesn't fit factual information, but very few people have seen fit to argue that this means they aren't supposed to be dinosaurs. Basically what I'm saying: It's a movie. Deal with it. 1:06, 27 December 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.209.131.242 (talk) 07:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

Otis

I'm pretty sure that Otis is not a comic-inspired character but why does he work for Lex Luthor? I mean, I can't see any way that he does.

(65.4.232.187 20:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC))

  • Luthor asked himself that same question: "Why am I surrounding myself by total nincompoops?" By so doing, at least he doesn't have to worry about anyone intellectually challenging him. Wahkeenah 22:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

"Unrelated" Sequel?

The movie led to three theatrical sequels, Superman II (1980), Superman III (1983) and the non-related Superman IV: The Quest For Peace (1987); and inspired the Salkind-backed 1984 follow-up, Supergirl.

This has got to be a mistake (or the work of a vandal). Supergirl is the unrelated one, Superman IV is no more "unrelated" than III was to II. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 11:20, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Canon/adoption?

Can we have a section on material from the movie that was original, and not part of the original comic book's canon? For example, Lex deducing kryptonite, Superman being able to time travel, etc. Also, I remember in the movie that he was unable to lie, is that right? It seems that that would be at odds with maintaining a secret identity. Also, I've heard that several conventions from the movie were later carried over into the comic book titles (Jor-El wearing the superman symbol on Krypton, Clark and Superman parting their hair on opposite sides). --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:15, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Superman doesn't lie, but Clark Kent apparently does. Another way to look at it is that the Clark disguise is to enable him to find out about trouble in the world without being too conspicuous. So he justifies it on that basis. Maybe Superman doesn't "lie", but he "rationalizes". Time travel was part of the comics long before it was used in the movie. It was based on somewhat flawed interpretations of Einstein's laws. However, if the casual reader can accept that a man can fly just by jumping into the air, then anything is believable. Wahkeenah 16:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Suspected copyright violations

I'm reverting numerous plot sections of Superman articles due to copyright violations by 64.123.114.194, and while I've found the sources for Superman 2 and 3 (supermanhomepage.com), there was a recent (Dec 9) substantial plot update here that I haven't found the source of, in case this one is a copyright violation as well. Googling just left me with several Wikipedia mirrors for it. So just a heads-up in case someone wish to check this further. -- Jugalator 23:21, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

You should revert the whole bloody essay that guy pasted in there. It reads not so much like someone simply describing the film, but like a critic's extended review. So either it's ripped off, or it's original research laced with Point-of-View, and either way it has to go. One thing that caught my attention was how it jumped over the 7 minutes (or whatever) of opening credits without even mentioning them.... a dead giveaway that something's fishy here. Wahkeenah 00:07, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Without someone posting permission, this is a copyright violation. Even without this, it's blatant plagiarism. The original is here. I've reverted it. JRM · Talk 01:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Pathetic, ain't it? Bravo for reverting it. Wahkeenah 01:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
    If you're not familiar with the procedure, see Wikipedia:Revert. Anyone can and should do this when they can justify it on the talk page (as you did). Be bold. If you're concerned about someone overriding your judgment, just respect the one-revert rule and you'll be fine. JRM · Talk 02:02, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
    I might have done it, but I figured you were on top of it, and you found the reference, so you get the gold star. :) Wahkeenah 04:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Oxford Scientific Films

On the DVD commentary Donner says Oxford Scientific Films did the high speed effects photography for the Krypton Sun. Worth adding.

Synopsis Overlong

I have added a Cleanup message template starting at the Synopsis section heading because the synopsis itself is way, way overlong. Is the purpose of this article the actual retelling of the movie, or the encyclopedic analysis of the movie? Darcyj 04:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Have started to copy-edit what there is, but I agree this is not a synopsis, more a screenplay treatment! Are you asking for a one- or two-paragraph summary of the film? It can be easily condensed, if need be. Chris 42 21:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
...And I've done it! Slightly more than two paragraphs, but I hope it reads okay and covers all the major plot points. I also did a few minor edits. I removed the 'screen shot' photo, as it didn't state to what it was being compared, along one of the 'teaser trailer' shots, as it was unclear and Christopher Reeve's name was illegible. Chris 42 19:47, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


Missing DVD Technical Referance

Would it not be significant to mention that the DVD's soundtrack was NOT a simple remaster, but an entirely new soundtrack build including some re-created sound elements? Violet Grey 09:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Good point. Feel free to add it. Wahkeenah 14:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I wonder about the phraseology "entirely new soundtrack". Technically that might be true, but it's actually a mix of old and new. The "whoosh" for the credits is clearly new (and, frankly, annoying and intrusive, rather than being "just part of it" as it was initially) but the music itself is the original track, near as I can tell... which is evident from the music-only track which has some apparent flaws in it. Wahkeenah 02:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

We, I only use the term "new" as in it is newly created and mixed for the DVD project. This version of the soundtrack has never apeared in any other form and is beyond a simple remix or remaster. Of course it is open for debate and alteration if the majority sees it should be so. Violet Grey 14:36 16 May, 2006

  • I see. I'd like to hear your impressions of the music-only portion of the DVD, if you happen to have listened to it. Wahkeenah 00:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I think as wonderful as John Williams music consistantly is, this is not a movie that really functions without the dialouge and effects. Star Wars works that way simply because Lucas is a poor writer, but the people in this film are its most important element. Violet Grey 2:2520 May, 2006

Article title

Suggestion: Rename the article to "Superman: The Movie".

I've been doing a lot of work on other Superman articles, and I'm pretty sick of writing "[[Superman (1978 film)|Superman: The Movie]]." If the film was just called "Superman", then I'd be happy to disambiguate it so, but it's clearly semi-formally known as "Superman: The Movie". The opening sentence of the article states that it was only called "The Movie" in "pre-release advertising". But I have here in my hands a 2001 DVD titled "(Superman) The Movie Special Edition" - so yes, it is still often officially called "Superman: The Movie" even today.

I prefer to use the "long version" of something's name as the article title over a disambiguation - especially a disambig-by-year. But I won't rename it without some sort of approval since it's a heavily-linked page. —EatMyShortz 12:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

  • You can decrease your keystrokes by putting a vertical bar after "(1978 film)": Superman. The title debate has been held before. Regardless of various marketing campaigns, the true title is what appears on-screen. The film's real (reel) title is not Superman: The Movie, nor Superman: The Movie - Special Edition. It is just plain Superman. Wahkeenah 13:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the Wahkeenah. As on the IMDb's pages, a film may be known under a number of titles, but the one that appears on the screen at its first public showing is the only one that counts — and is therefore the official title. (Hence why, for example, X2 is not called X-Men 2, even though it was heavily used during the film's promotion.) The DVD may be called Superman: The Movie but it contains a film entitled Superman. This page has already been moved from its incorrect title at least once before. Chris 42 15:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, I could reduce my keystrokes by writing "[[Superman (1978 film)|]]" except that I find myself always having to write "[[Superman (1978 film)|Superman: The Movie]]" (as I said) - and this is partly just to keep up with everywhere else on Wikipedia where the link is called that as well. Maybe we have it wrong across the board, but it's not just me. At any rate, if you insist it must be called just "Superman", then I insist that the article title be simplified to "Superman (film)" - removing the date. After all, there is only one film called "Superman", and the page Superman (film) already redirects to Superman (1978 film). Is this proposal acceptable? —EatMyShortz 14:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
So long as the article reflects the film's correct title, then I have no problem with that. However, having just checked the IMDb, there are a number of films called Superman. Of course, the 1978 one is the most well known, but perhaps there is still an argument for keeping the date? Personally, I would prefer it if any references to Superman: The Movie throughout Wikipedia were changed to Superman, which would ensure both uniformity and accuracy. Chris 42 15:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Aye. Are Chris and I the only ones who realize the importance of disambiguation? Especially when the opposing push is for a suffix as silly as simply "(film)" or "The movie". I mean...really. Look at "Punisher (film)"—the article, not the actual movie in its entirity. I've heard bad things.—or cinema marquees. Returns is the new "Superman". WW, FF, Batman and Shazam! have all been made before, but more modern movies are still being made. Bottomline, america: Disambiguating with the date is more respectful to the past and helpful to modern movie-researchers. Sorry if I got ranty, but I just had to add my ten—noticibly more than two—cents. ACS (Wikipedian) 19:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I perfectly understand the purpose of disambiguation - it isn't supposed to completely remove all possible conflicts, but just disambiguate enough so that it is unique on Wikipedia. If you want more information, such as the date, you go and read the first sentence of the article. Disambiguation is just there to make sure you get to the article in question, and therefore, it should be the shortest and most obvious title which is still unique. Since "Superman" is taken (by the character, far more important than the film), the next shortest and most obvious disambiguation is "Superman (film)". If someone goes looking for this article, do you think they're going to type in "Superman (1978 film)"? The other way to look at it is, either way we go, the other one will redirect to the article anyway, so it's not about people finding it, it's just a question of "which out of all the different redirects to this article is the shortest and most obvious disambiguation?", and it clearly is "Superman (film)" (Or "Superman: The Movie" if that is it's actual title, but you tell me it isn't). —EatMyShortz 09:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

DVD Bonus Features

I added the list of Bonus Features that are included in the 2001 Special Edition DVD.

Why say Superman Returns is a sequel?

I don't know why say that. I do that's a question searching for an answer.

user:I'm Madonna 8:58 p.m. PD: Don't Know what Day is it Today

It's a sequel to the 2nd film. Bryan Singer has stated (tho I don't have the time to look up a reference) that it picks up the storyline 5 yrs after II. You know, Lois has had a kid, the kid is obviously Superman's son, they slept together in the 2nd film... Tommyt 20:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
This of course begs the question of whether or not all the Christopher Reeve films as well as Superman Returns fit into the same continuity... But I would agree that Returns is a sequel to I and II. 1:18, 27 December 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.209.131.242 (talk) 07:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

General Zod character

Why is 'General Zod' mentioned in this film when he does not actually appear in the franchise til the 2nd movie? leopheard 02:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

  • He's in the opening scene, along with the other two Kryptionian criminals, all three of whom are sent to the Phantom Zone soon before Krypton's sun goes supernova, thus they escape its fate. Originally, there was a notion that they were going to re-appear at the end, when the rocket Superman sent up into space explodes and frees them, thus creating a cliffhanger ending. That plan was scrapped and a similar concept was used early in Superman II. Wahkeenah 05:37, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Which is Richard Donner's preferred version?

Which version of superman the movie does richard donner prefer, the original theatrical cut, or the 2000 extended version with the integrated bonus scenes? Adam

Three acts?

The article now describes the film's plot in three acts, which are:

  1. Krypton + Smallville
  2. Metropolis: Superman's deeds and Luthor's plan
  3. Climax

It seems to me that the divide between these "acts" 2 and 3 is fairly arbitrary. (ie. Wikipedia made it up, it wasn't actually a real "third act"). Furthermore, I think there are three clearly-defined acts (and Donner and Mankiewicz back this up on the DVD commentary) - which are 1. Krypton, 2. Smallville, 3. Metropolis. Although with this redivision, Act III would be far longer than the first two acts, I think it much better represents the three distinct parts of the film. —EatMyShortz 14:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Critics who have divided the film into three (unequal) parts have used your breakout, not the other one. If that's in the article that way, it should be either changed or dropped altogether, as it is probably the editor's opinion. To look at it another way, the three "acts" are (1) Kal-El / Clark as an infant (2) Clark as a teen; and (3) Clark / Superman as an adult. Those aren't really "acts" in the typical sense, in fact. They are "mood changes". The scenes on Krypton are absolutely, deadly serious. A little humor starts to appear in Smallville, but it's still mostly serious. Metropolis is played like a comic book, and even Lex Luthor is hard to take seriously in spite of his murderous nature (too bad Kevin Spacey wasn't in the role then.) That's the difference among the three "acts". Wahkeenah 16:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

4th Super Villian

Where is proof of this? I've got the Ultimate Superman Collection (The 14 disc set) and I've watched nearly every special feature about this movie and I've heard absolutely no mention of a 4th villian. If this can't be proven then it should be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scmods (talk • contribs) 04:23, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

  • Gone. Wahkeenah 04:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Listen to Salkind and Spengler's commentary on the first film again. They mention it. (By the way, why does it appear to be three hours and four minutes later where you are than where I am? 1:23, 28 December 2006
      • Both Jak-El the fourth villain and Albert, Lex's other henchman, appeared in this draft of Mario Puzo's script, dated 1976: http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/superman_original.txt. They also appear in the early draft for Superman II. I'm going to add mention of them back along with links to the scripts, if there's no objections. - Kooshmeister
        • OK, no problem. I haven't got around to listening to Salkind and Spanglers commentary yet. I just hadn't heard any mention of a 4th villian, so I was trying to verify that. Scmods 10:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Heat vision

One line in the trivia section says: At no point in the movie does Superman use his heat vision, one of his most famous powers. Is this the only one Superman film where he doesn't use his heat vision? David Pro 19:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

  • That was his X-ray vision. X-rays allows one to see through objects such as handbags, chest cavities, etc., but cannot travel through lead like the one lining the planter in Lois' oppulently palatial penthouse apartment. Therefore he could not see the color of her panties until she she walked around the aforementioned planter. --Jack Meihoffer 02:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)22:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
    • True. One could say he didn't need to, in this film (although he could have melted that lead planter, I supposed). I'm guessing Lois wore lead BVD's after that incident. But he needed to use heat vision at more than one point in Superman II, and did so. Wahkeenah 23:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

HD DVD

Apeantly there is a version of the 2006 dvd on amazon.com that is in high definition.They cant really have that 1970s film in high definition can they,or is it just the extras or something?192.30.202.19

  • Presumably one could make a high-def scan of a normal print. Kind of like making a CD from vinyl record. Wahkeenah 02:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok,i see what you mean now,you mean its like having a photograph that is standard resolution size and photo scanning it at high definition resolution,you see more detail in the photograph,but the scene in the photograph isn't any clearerRodrigue 13:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, that's what I'm getting at. As with older CD's from earlier recordings, where you can even sometimes hear tape hiss or crackling from the vinyl, this is another case of "you can't improve on the original". However, you can manipulate the original, as Lucas did with his early Star Wars films for re-release. Perhaps such trickery was done with the 1978 film, for example. Even the ca.2001 DVD release had new audio effects thrown in. That brings up the question of artistic integrity. It's like touching up the Mona Lisa with paint from the local hobby shop. Wahkeenah 13:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
    • The movie was shot on film; therefore, it's already in HD. Film has a much higher resolution than VHS, DVD, and even HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray. They just need to scan the film in at 1080 lines to get an HD-DVD version. 194.203.201.92 08:52, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section

I am moving the trivia section onto the talk page so that anything useful can be worked into the rest of the article. As it stands, it has very little value in the article as it is difficult to read, too long and contains a lot of pointless things. Take a look at WP:TRIVIA and WP:AVTRIV for information on how to use trivia more effectively. David Pro 22:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

  • The designation of the stylized 'S' as Jor-El's family crest on the planet Krypton solved an apparent logical dilemma for the creators of the Superman films. The 'S' is indestructible, as is the rest of Superman's uniform, but Kal-El was not called "Superman" on Krypton. The creators decided to adorn every Kryptonian leader's robes with a family crest (as noted in publicity magazines at the time) and the one for Jor-El's family happened to look like a stylized 'S'.
  • Some reports say it was Marlon Brando's own idea for Jor-El to wear the recognizable 'S' symbol in the scenes on Krypton. The establishment of the 'S' emblem as the El family crest was a departure from the first three eras (Golden, Silver, Modern) of official DC Comics continuity, in which the 'S' emblem and costume were both created by Martha Kent (Mary Kent in the Golden Age) after Clark chose his heroic name. However, in the 2003 series Superman: Birthright, the 'S' symbol has been changed to represent a universal symbol of the planet Krypton, adorning their flags and military uniforms in holographic projections Clark finds contained in a device that came with him from Krypton. He chooses to wear the symbol to honor his Kryptonian heritage, and the name "Superman" is given to him by the newspapers.
  • Christopher Reeve reported the following anecdote in his autobiography. The idealistic young actor Reeve asked the seasoned veteran Hackman what his 'motivation' was in playing the role of Luthor. Hackman responded, "You mean, besides the million dollars?"
  • As had become his habit, Brando did not memorize his lines; he read them from cue cards spread around the set.
  • Gene Hackman would not wear a bald cap for the part of Lex Luthor (with the exception of one scene at the end of this film, and a few scenes for the production of the second film), so Mankiewicz devised the notion of Luthor wearing several different wigs throughout the film.
  • During the Smallville segment, the original recording of "Rock Around the Clock" by Bill Haley & His Comets is heard on a car radio. This is significant as this is played at the beginning of Glenn Ford's final scene in the movie; Ford had starred in Blackboard Jungle, the film that introduced "Rock Around the Clock" (and helped launch the rock and roll era). The expanded ABC edit of the film, however, replaces the song with another piece of music.
  • Superman was the first film to feature a split-channel surround soundtrack — originally a 6-channel presentation. Dolby Digital sound made its debut in Batman Returns. Both were produced by Warner Bros. and feature characters appearing in titles from DC Comics.
  • DC Comics held The Great Superman Movie Contest, where two people won bit parts in the movie. Two teenage boys, Edward Finneran from Massachusetts and Tim Hussey from California, won the contest by cutting special letters out of comics and mailing them in. They appear in the movie as 'special football players' in the scene where Clark is the equipment manager for the high school football team. As the team runs into the school (actually a local football team from rural Canada where the scene was shot), the two winners are identifiable as they go by together, wearing gray uniforms without numbers; Ed says "See you later, Clark!".
  • As Richard Donner confirmed in the DVD audio commentary, he has a bit cameo in the shots of Clark getting caught in the Daily Planet doors: he is reflected in the glass.
  • At no point in the movie does Superman use his heat vision, one of his most famous powers.
  • Originally, there was a fourth Kryptonian villain imprisoned in the Phantom Zone with General Zod, an "evil prankster" named "Jak-El" (apparently a pun on the word jackal). Lex Luthor also had a second henchman in addition to Otis in this incarnation of the story, a German man named "Albert." Both of these characters appeared in the July, 1976 draft of the script by Mario Puzo (which can be found here: http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/superman_original.txt), but were dropped in subsequent drafts.
  • Young Clark Kent (Jeff East) was dubbed with Christopher Reeve's voice. The only time East's real voice is actually heard in the movie is when he yells as he jumps across the train tracks.
  • Superman was originally going to end with a cliff hanger where Superman throws the missile into the Phantom Zone, releasing the villains. The "turning the world back" ending was intended for Superman II; one of the edits to 2006's Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut replaced the theatrical cut's ending with the "turning back" version. David Pro 22:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

Please do not move this article without discussing it first. I believe it has been well hashed out that the proper title for this movie is Superman. Even if it were to be accepted that the correct title is Superman: The Movie, the article would not then be titled Superman: The Movie (film). It's redundant and unnecessary. The "(film)" is only there to differentiate this from other items titled "Superman". Now, if anyone wants to discuss changing the name of this article to Superman: The Movie, now would be the time and here would be the place to do so. Rhindle The Red 04:19, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, first off, I had to put (film) after the title because when I tried to move the page, It wouldn't let me. Try for yourself, you'll see what I mean. I think that Superman: The Movie IS the correct title for the film. Even the 2006 DVD cover on the bottom of the page states so.Limetolime 14:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree - "Superman: The Movie" is the real title. BGC 12:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Due to BGC not following procedure, we are back to the improper article title "Superman: The Movie (film)". We need to decide what the title will be and then get all of these moves fixed so that the discussions are on the correct page. The basic arguments for the two possibilites, Superman: The Movie and Superman (1978 film) go as follows:

  • Superman: The Movie is the title that is used most often in promotional material and even by the people who made the film. Posters and home video releases usually use this title.
  • Superman (1978 film) reflects the title of the movie as it actually appears on screen in the film itself. This is the rule that the Internet Movie Database follows. It is the title that the article has held for the longest.

We need to decide what the title will be and stick to it. There are now numerous links that go to both options and one needs to take precedence.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhindle The Red (talk • contribs)

I would most support the title used in the opening credits. I had seen the title of The Road to Guantanamo represented on posters with and without the acute accent on the second A in "Guantanamo"[1][2] but when I saw the beginning of the film, it shows "Guantanamo" without the acute accent.[3] I personally think that this determination should be the final authority. Reginmund 22:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what promotional or marketing materials claim. The onscreen title of the movie — that one that is registered with the U.S. Copyright Office, the Screen Writers Guild, the Motion Picture Academy of America, etc. — is the only title.
In addition, every authoritative reference source — from Screen World Annual to The Variety Sourcebook to The Motion Picture Guide, which was bought and put online by TVGuide.com — uses the proper title. It is Superman — just as it is Die Hard 2, and not Die Hard 2: Die Harder.
This should not even be a discussion. We don't vote on what our favorite title is. This is an encyclopedia, and the only title an encyclopedia uses is the official, registered, onscreen title. --Tenebrae 08:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't think we are discussing "favorites" here. We are discussing what is the most appropriate title for the article and that is not necessarily the "official" title. The original Star Trek show is not at Star Trek (it's proper title) or even Star Trek (TV series). It is at Star Trek: The Original Series because that is the accepted way of referring to it *now*. I actually agree with your points, but the notion of calling the article Superman: The Movie is still a valid one, if not one I agree with. Rhindle The Red 14:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the agreement on the practical matter, and an interesting point of view on the theoretical. I'm not going to get into a tussle with Trekkies (term used advisedly), but it'sonly fans and the Paramount marketing dept. that call it Star Trek: The Original Series, and not even Paramount is changing the titles onscreen.
Wikipedia is written for the general public, who only knows the original TV show as Star Trek, and frankly, there's billions more general public than there are fans. Wikipedia is written, calls it Star Trek, and that in fact is the title. You mention people call it ST:TOS *now*. But an encyclopedia cannot base some of its most important decisions, such as naming criteria, on transient changes, fads, or marketing ploys.
What one person calls "appropriate" another person may not. "Appropriate" is opinion. The official, accurate, factual, registered name is not opinion.
Forgive me if I sound like I'm coming down on you. I'm not -- we're in agreement. But I'm rightfully concerned about a lack of encyclopedic standards overall. Ask yourself: Would the Encyclopedia Britannica not have the official title of the series in an article about the series? --Tenebrae 15:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed from Superman: The Movie (film) to Superman (1978 film) as the result of a move request. Folks, there's no sign of a poll on this page, so I've moved it to "Superman (1978 film)". You may continue to debate the merits of "Superman: The Movie" but the extra disambiguation of "(film)" had to go. While I agree the film was originally entitled "Superman: The Movie," the fact that it was followed by several numbered sequels seems to have affected the use of the title in subsequent releases, presumably because it was no longer "the" movie. (See Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and (Indiana Jones and the ) Raiders of the Lost Ark for two contrasting examples of this.) If there's still a strong desire to move this article to "Superman: The Movie" please re-post it to Wikipedia: Requested moves. Thanks, ProhibitOnions (T) 11:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC) (Comment later re-added after weird server behavior meant the talk page wasn't moved -- thanks Stemonitis -- and this comment was never added)

Reception section

I am appalled by what was here. Incredibly, blatantly POV and filled with uncited claims, WP:NOR "analysis" that amounted to hype, and such inexcusably hyperbolic, non-encyclopedic phrases and sentences as 'John Williams' score is known as one of the greatest soundtracks ever for a superhero film" and "monstrously beating out it's [sic] $55 million budget".

WikiProject Film states how the Reception section should be written: Box-office results first, followed by a report of a critics-aggregate site (typically Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic), followed by a sampling of quotes by authoritative critics. What was here was a travesty. --Tenebrae 06:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Richard Donner section

Some of the material in this section was not supported by the cited Frieman article at Superman Homepage, and other parts were WP:NOR interpretation and analysis, such as the Tom Mank. rewrite giving the script a more "Science Fiction" (sic -- not a proper noun to be capitalized) tone.

Here is the pertinent material from Frieman article. Please see for yourselves and do not make claims unsupported by this if one is citing this:

As Donner explained on the 2001 Special Edition "Superman" DVD, he brought in Tom Mankiewicz to rewrite parts of the script which had already seen revisions from writers Robert Benton and David Newman (Newman's wife Leslie joined the project later to "write Lois"). The Writers' Guild gave writing credits on the film to Puzo, Benton, and the Newmans. Mankiewicz received a credit as "Creative Consultant".

Salkind acknowledges that Mankiewicz "did some great, great stuff", but suggests that the interviews on the 2001 DVD may have failed to recognize the contributions made by the film's other writers. "If you compare [earlier scripts] to the Mankiewicz script, frankly, it's surprising how little changes there were to the dialogue. Things have to be said true the way they are. I had forgotten myself and re-read the Newman script. [A]ll that stuff [on Krypton] was the same, the entire Lex Luthor thing. Tom did some great, great stuff but there was a lot of great stuff [already]."

"The whole 'pink' [Lois interviewing Superman on her balcony] and all that - that's all [the Newmans]. We tested with that and Tom wasn't working yet," noted Salkind. "We had agreed that Tom could come to work on the project [by the time we started screen tests] but the script was pretty solid."

--Tenebrae 16:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed there's a heavy reliance here on DVD commentary, which is great primary-source material.
But verbatim quotes, or at the very least a timecode, need to be here to support claims ostensibly based on a DVD interview, such as that claim of Donner wearing a Superman costume and sprinting across Mankiewicz's lawn. You can see that anyone can claim anything based on what might have been said or misheard somewhere in the hours and hours of interviews on a DVD.
For an honest claim, there should be no problem in providing exactitude. Obviously, the verbatim quote and a timecode would be best, similar to a book quote with a page number. --Tenebrae 16:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)