Talk:Super Outbreak

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Super Outbreak article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Illinois (Rated B-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Illinois, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Illinois on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) (Rated B-Class) Georgia (U.S. state) Portal This article is part of WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state), an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Georgia (U.S. state) on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale. Wikipedia:WikiProject North Carolina This article is within the scope of WikiProject North Carolina, an effort to create, expand, organize, and improve North Carolina-related articles to a feature-quality standard. North Carolina Portal ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. WikiProject Ohio      (Rated B-Class) Ohio Portal Super Outbreak is part of WikiProject Ohio, which collaborates on Ohio-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to current discussions. B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. Please rate this article, and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. Suggested article edit guidelines: To help us prioritise our workload, and in readiness for Wikipedia:1.0, we need to assess our articles for Quality. If this article is Unassessed, please assess it. See the Article Classification for instructions. If you disagree with a rating, you can change it or discuss it at Article Classification. After assessing this article's quality, please make sure it to add it to the Lists at Article Classification, following the grading scheme detailed there. WikiProject Louisville (Rated B-Class) Louisville Portal Super Outbreak is within the scope of WikiProject Louisville, an open collaborative effort to coordinate work for and sustain comprehensive coverage of metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky and related subjects in the Wikipedia. Template Usage • Change Patrol • Articles Requested! • Become a Member • Project Talk B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the Project's importance scale. Please explain ratings on the ratings summary page. WikiProject Severe weather (Rated B-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Severe weather, an attempt to standardize and improve all articles related to severe weather. You can help! Visit the project page or discuss an article at its talk page. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance within WikiProject Severe weather. WikiProject Alabama      (Rated B-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Alabama, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Alabama on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale. WikiProject Mississippi     (Rated B-Class) Mississippi Portal Super Outbreak is within the scope of WikiProject Mississippi, an open collaborative effort to coordinate work for and sustain comprehensive coverage of Mississippi and related subjects in the Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, and even become a member. [Watch Project Articles] • [Project Page] • [Project Talk] • [Template Usage] B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the Project's importance scale. Please explain ratings on the ratings summary page.

	It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in the following regions may able to help: Illinois Ohio Indiana Alabama West Virginia Georgia (U.S. state) Kentucky Michigan Mississippi Virginia North Carolina Alabama Tennessee New York Ontario
	The Free Image Search Tool (FIST) may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

An event in this article is a April 3 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment).

Contents 1 Other links from merged article 2 Tornado myths 3 Windspeed in infobox 4 Tornado list 5 To put the sections of individual tornadoes in the parent article? (SURVEY) 6 Death toll 7 8 mm video in 1974? 8 Confusing 9 McCreary County, KY 10 Earthquake 11 Video of Tornado with twin vortices 12 April 2 activity? 13 Link with the Eastern Air Lines Flight 66 crash

[edit] Other links from merged article

These were also linked in the merged article April 3 1974 tornado, but this many seemed excessive. I can't access the files from here, so I also didn't want to add them without seeing them. If someone else wants to add these in, feel free. Joyous 01:02, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[edit] Tornado myths

As far as the listing that talks about opening windows being a waste of time - shouldn't the focus on this myth be on the fact that buildings don't actually explode during a tornado, but rather implode? --Cholmes75 14:48, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

These myths should be merged with Tornado myths. -Charlie

Agreed. Also, the inferred linkage between this outbreak and La Niña is itself a myth. Evolauxia 23:06, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree--I was in the heart of the Xenia tornado, so I don't cotton to myth-making about it--but if the La Nina connection is a myth, and you can back that up (or if you want to wiki-challenge it for lack of sources) why don't you delete it?--Buckboard 22:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Windspeed in infobox

All tornado infoboxes should have maximum windspeed removed; it is pseudoscientific and unencyclopedic.

It's totally unjustified and not something that should be perpetuated by Wikipedia or any encyclopedia. Ask a NWS meteorologist if they really can say that those exact speeds are known and they would say no. NSSL, SPC, researchers, Fujita, Grazulis, etc. would tell you the same and it is very well reflected in the literature. Given that *some* NWS offices do unfortunately post this information, here a couple of authoritative online sources in support of my position:

http://www.srh.weather.gov/jetstream/mesoscale/tornado.htm "The F-scale is to be used with great caution. Tornado wind speeds are still largely unknown; and the wind speeds on the F-scale have never been scientifically tested and proven. Different winds may be needed to cause the same damage depending on how well-built a structure is, wind direction, wind duration, battering by flying debris, and a bunch of other factors."

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/#f-scale1 "Tornado wind speeds are still largely unknown; and the wind speeds on the original F-scale have never been scientifically tested and proven. Different winds may be needed to cause the same damage depending on how well-built a structure is, wind direction, wind duration, battering by flying debris, and a bunch of other factors. Also, the process of rating the damage itself is largely a judgment call -- quite inconsistent and arbitrary (Doswell and Burgess, 1988). Even meteorologists and engineers highly experienced in damage survey techniques often came up with different F-scale ratings for the same damage."

"So if the original F-scale winds are just guesses, why are they so specific? Excellent question. Those winds were arbitrarily attached to the damage scale based on 12-step mathematical interpolation between the hurricane criteria of the Beaufort wind scale, and the threshold for Mach 1 (738 mph). Though the F-scale actually peaks at F12 (Mach 1), only F1 through F5 are used in practice, with F0 attached for tornadoes of winds weaker than hurricane force. Again, F-scale wind-to-damage relationships are untested, unknown and purely hypothetical. They have never been proven and may not represent real tornadoes. F-scale winds should not be taken literally."

No doubt wonderful sources. However, there was nothing hypothetical or debatable about the extent and size of the destruction in Xenia. It was F-5 (or EF-5), one mile wide through the heart of a city, any way you look at it. It took a diesel locomotive--one quarter of a million pounds--lifted it up and turned it over. That is no myth--I saw it with my own eyes.--Buckboard 22:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tornado list

I'm currently starting the list of the tornadoes (at least the main ones) for this event. Of, course I will need a bit of help to get some of the details. --JForget 20:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I've created an individual page for the list so to avoid making a very lengthy page, but I will wait a few days before removing what it has done, so to be sure if the other page won't be slated for deletion - i doubt.--JForget 18:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To put the sections of individual tornadoes in the parent article? (SURVEY)

Let's do a little survey here to see whether or not we can put the sections on individual tornadoes that are currently under the Super Outbreak tornadoes article to the main Super Outbreak article as to improve that one and possibly putting as a featured article in the future as it would probably make sense to have the parent article be a featured article rather then the one with a long list of tornadoes. That would also eliminate the factor of conflicted/disputed data between the NOAA and other individual websites on the Outbreak if we put the tornado description sections into the Super Outbreak article.

So do you agree or disagree as to put the sections on some of the individual tornadoes (Xenia, Tanner, Lousiville, Brandenburg, etc) to the Super Outbreak page. --JForget 23:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death toll

I know this is quite long - but I've made a table representing the death tolls per county. I've put in the tornado descriptions portion so it will no not interfere with any other boxes.--JForget 00:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 8 mm video in 1974?

"...this tornado was caught on film. A sixteen year-old boy captured 1 minute and 42 seconds of the infamous twister, and up close with an 8 mm 'super 8' video recorder, as it roared through the city..."

This should probably be a Super 8 film camera, as 8mm video did not exist as a format until 1985. 1/2" home video has existed since 1965, however. Any clarification?

Mickeymephistopheles 06:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing

Can someone check the article for the tornado counts? There's mismatched F5 counts, and I suspect there might be others I've overlooked. Cwolfsheep 14:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] McCreary County, KY

In the spring of 1980 I worked on a subcontracting crew in one of the National Forests replanting the area devastated by the tornado swarm of April 3 and April 4, 1974, called the Super Outbreak. We were reforesting with the lumber producing shortleaf pine, for $.10 per tree, a real deal back then, as most sites only paid $.05 per tree. I'd like to add a small paragraph about the impact of the tornado in that area, particularly on the ruggedness of the terrain (the reason for the great pay!), and the way the Old Growth trees that remained on those slopes (which could only be timbered by heicopter) were snapped off ten feet up, with their crowns deposited sometimes 50 feet away. Thing is, I don't see McCreary County on the wiki Super OUtbreak list. I know it hit that county, so should I go ahead and add the paragraph? I'm also adding this to the McCreary County discussion page. Just looking for experienced wiki advice. Thanks. Soltera 14:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

A lot about the damage you claim can be corroborated with local newspaper accounts, and other local history. Since Wikipedia:Veritability is important part of any contribution, I would suggest citing as much of that information as possible. If you're unsure about how to do that, just try to leave as much info about your sources so that the other editors can fix the citations. MMetro 17:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earthquake

It's also interesting to note that coincidentally around 6pm on the first day of the super outbreak, a 4.5 scale earthquake occurred just east of St. Louis, MO and was felt throughout several surrounding states, including Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky. Many of those in the tornado-afflicted areas felt tremors during and after the tornado strikes. This is documented on the second part of the live WHAS radio coverage of the storms linked in the External Links section. 74.73.86.222 04:48, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

This was actcully farther east, near where I live, in Mount Carmel, IL. I find this a bit interesting and scary myself. Southern Illinois SKYWARN 21:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Video of Tornado with twin vortices

the link to Fujita's own research cites the Xenia tornado video taken by Bruce Boyd http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0469/38/8/pdf/i1520-0469-38-8-1511.pdf (bottom of page 1524) so this can now be added to the text rather than "and maybe a video" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.4.55 (talk) 03:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] April 2 activity?

Since most systems usually take several days to cross the continent and this one was a monster, I am wondering if there was any tornado or severe weather activity farther west (i.e. in the Plains states) on April 2? I can't seem to tell if there was any. CrazyC83 (talk) 03:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

There were 4 tornadoes listed, all in the SE though. Gopher backer (talk) 14:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Link with the Eastern Air Lines Flight 66 crash

I've found this video of a documentary related to the Super Outbreak tornado and which there is a link from a study of Ted Fujita in regards to the length of the Monticello tornado (which he believe that downdrafts and microbursts were the cause of the entreme length of that tornado) and this accident which was later found to caused by downdrafts and microbursts. Wondering if this info can be interested, although I would have to check to documented source outside of this video--JForget 02:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)