Talk:Summer Cummings

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This article was nominated for deletion on 4 August 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus, defaulting to keep.

[edit] Deletion of O'Farrell Theatre information

Why was my information about Ms. Cummings working at the O'Farrell Theatre in San Francisco deleted. This was a first-person observation as I observed her dancing both onstage and on my lap (lap-dancing) on numerous occasions in the 1990's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.27.20.90 (talk • contribs) 07:57, March 25, 2007

• "First-person observation" is not a reliable source. If you can find a reliable source for this info, that would be great; if not, it doesn't belong here. Valrith 10:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Here's a source 1. Its listed right there in her official bio.--Hndsmepete 03:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing at that link stating she ever worked there. It says only she "found out about" the place... Valrith 14:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The edit war

I've been trying to stay out of the edit war here, because there is a non-negligible chance the whole article will end up being deleted in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Summer Cummings, so I didn't want to invest effort that would just end up deleted; but I've been asked to participate, so I guess this now falls into my Wikipedia:Administrator mop-wielding responsibilities. Let's take a look at this edit war, section by section. I think this is a fairly representative diff: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Summer_Cummings&diff=149445435&oldid=149324521

• Lead: The differences seem to be birthdate, birth location cite, first starring film, fetish film staple, and surgically enhanced breasts. The birthdate shows up in lots of places, but no reliable sources, and she leaves it out of her interview and official site bio where she does mention birth location [1], so should probably go until we find better sources. I'm kind of partial to the interview used for the birth location cite, since I found it. :-) It's a direct quote from her in an interview from Talking Blue, a cable TV show, a reasonably reliable source; also the biography link says the same thing. First starring film seems to be cited; to a commercial source just giving the date of the film rather than saying "this was her first film", but I think this isn't particularly controversial. Her bio specifies she has been "interested in the fetish scene" since soon after high school. "staple" is somewhat puffery, but if she has been active in this genre for 17 years probably isn't that controversial either, that's a long time. Noted for surgically enhanced breasts ... ehh. Needs a reliable source, I guess, but at a measurement of 45EE (from the interview again) I'd say it would be more controversial if anyone claimed they weren't surgically enhanced. :-) I don't think anyone's really disputing it, so I'd leave it, possibly with the {{fact}} tag, but it's close. Mentioning Minka seems to be uncalled for, I don't see anyone claiming they're in any way related, and they're hardly the only two performers with surgically enhanced breasts.
• Biography section: the difference here seems to be mostly rearranging of text. Let's see what the points are, and whether any only appear in one version of the dispute. Boogie Nights - both versions. With Skye Blue - both versions. Partnership reflected stage names - one version, but not controversial and rather obvious, their site was called summerskye.com and their stage names are Summer and Skye, so that doesn't need a cite. Appeared in many adult films together - can be cited to the interview, rather than the primary sources provided. "These two have done tons of movies...". Ceased partnership - to some extent that's simply the fact that summerskye.com doesn't cover both of them any more. (It did before, see the rec.arts.movies.erotica FAQ which dates back to that time, [2]) Maybe we could rephrase that phrase if you think it implies more than that, but deleting it is too strong. Skye owns and operates "Platinum Blue" - that's actually cited, so should be kept. Summer produces as "summerc" at www.summerc.com - that's her official site, hard to dispute. Her latest production series has been the "Fetish Fairy Tales" - cited, only to a store review, but since all it's saying is "she produces this" that's good enough. I think it's "Fairy Tails", though, actually.

It looks like most of the things the newer contributor is trying to put in are reasonably cited, uncontroversial, or both. Unfortunately, they're not necessarily enough for Wikipedia:Notability, you'll notice I didn't weigh in either way on the AFD debate. She's a very experienced pornographic actress, but experience isn't necessarily the same as notability (though it does help). --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 15:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I put back most of the disputed text, and cleaned up the references a bit, as discussed here. It could still use more cleaning up, so don't think that the version I put back should be untouchable or anything, feel free to keep editing. Especially, please, someone, put in some independent reliable sources discussing her, and saying that she is notable, famous, anything like that, that will prove notability, otherwise it's still possible the article will just be deleted, whatever shape it's in. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 16:41, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I see you linked to my one and only edit to this article. I'll briefly explain my reasons, as I put in the edit summary: "restoring, misclasified as vandalism". Valrith said he was reverting vandalism, when it clearly had been misidentified. So all I was doing is restoring back a good faith effort down to improve the article. Anyway, it my edit certainly does not fall under an "edit war". Hope this clears up this minor point, thanks. Mathmo ^Talk 22:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)