Talk:Sugar

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Contents

[edit] Sugar is Poison

Hello, as I was reading the article, I noticed that citation 2 links to an article at all-creatures.org. Browsing through the site, and according to her resume, Gerry Coffey has a B.S. She's not a doctor or scientist, I don't think that she is a real authority on the subject. That wouldn't bother me so much, but the article that is quoted has no citations, she doesn't cite her sources. Does anyone know of any credible sources?

154.5.185.223 07:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)Zeroedout

Actually, it's somewhat worse than the anonymous comment above (correctly) notes. The article cited is written by Michael Dye. I am sure that there are many doctors named Michael Dye, but I suspect that this particular Mr. Dye is the one listed on Amazon as the author of "God's Way to Ultimate Health: A Common Sense Guide for Eliminating Sickness through Nutrition", "The PeaceKeepers", and "Vaccinations: Deception & Tragedy". I'm assuming that these are all by the same man, although that is not 100% clear. I can find no identification of him as a doctor. I did find a description of Mr. Dye, the author of "The PeaceKeepers", as a "Christian Law Enforcement veteran" on http://www.christianlawenforcement.com/. While "law enforcement veteran" is not necessarily incompatible with "Many doctors", this (presumed) inconsistency casts even more doubt on an already questionable claim, prima facie. At a minimum, the footnote should cite a work by a doctor, or be modified to be a true statement. Even better, this batcrap (at least the "poison" part) should be deleted. If I can figure out how to dispute the neutrality of this section, I will. This is supposed to an encyclopedia, not a pulpit. Amccray (talk) 01:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, I figured out how to dispute the neutrality. I'll do some more poking around in the next couple of days, and if I can't find anything reputable from some (at least pseudo-) qualified medical type labeling sugar a "poison", I'll delete the statement and the reference. I think it's inappropriate as written. Amccray (talk) 02:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, there are alleged MDs who write this, quite explicitly, at least on the internet. I have removed the dispute of neutrality, cited one, and changed the wording clearly to differentiate this allegation from the other, more reasonable, argument - to classify sugar as a food additive. The other possible citation on the web is http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990303141416. Both of these individuals (Spreen and Dean) have multiple books listed on Amazon. Personally, I think they are quacks looking to make a buck, but they are credentialed, and that seems to be the standard in these decayed times. Whatever happened to good judgment and sound sense? Anyway, to answer the question asked in the first entry above, I could find no credible sources--just credentialed ones. Sigh. Amccray (talk) 13:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed the part about poison. You cannot in any justification say this. What you mean is it's not good for you or that too much is bad but it is not in any form a poison. The references were not credible sites. Anyone can open a website and have an opinion, Wikipedia means you have authoritative sites. Even having an MD doesn't make you an authority, it just means you have a degree. One of these sites was from a 1939 study that was hopelessly outdated. If you want to state sugar is not good for you that is one thing but poison is simply inaccurate and a weasle word in an attempt to influence people with an agenda. Sugar in the form of refined or sugar in the form of an apple acts upon the body and the teeth more or less the same way. 4.143.237.164 (talk) 07:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)eric

[edit] Title Sucrose or Sugar

Most of the information in the article SUGAR relates to sucrose, while the aticle SUCROSE is barely more than a stub. I think it would be better if SUGAR discussed and defined sugars in general, with mention or links to blood sugar, diabetes, glucose, corn syrup, candy, and quite a bit else. Much of the current article could be moved to SUCROSE, or the two articles could be combined. The maing sources of sugar are fairly straight forward yet complicated. Read through the article and carefully try memorizing substances in sugar. --Anon

I see no harm in moving some of the sucrose specific stuff to its own article. IMO the chemistry section is more important than the sucrose section for this page, and the common applications of sugar could be moved to sucrose and glucose. Someone (me if nobody else goes ahead with it) could add more on bonding between the monomers, structure (linear and ring structures), cis-trans isomers and the shapes of polymers, etc... or perhaps someone's already done that on saccaride... --Steinsky 03:32, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
This chemistry graduate disagrees with moving non-chemistry sugar to sucrose. We need to try to keep the common meanings on the initial page and use different pages for in depth specialization. High fructose corn syrup is "sugar" in common usage, so the items can't be moved to sucrose and glucose without confusing people who aren't aware of the chemistry. Those who understand chemistry can better handle the transition to an in depth discussion of the chemistry in another article. I'd hate to have a six year old looking up sugar and finding chemistry rather than food! See also my added note that sugar=diabetes in parts of the southern US. This is to some extent a disambiguation page.
It still seems odd to me to have sucrose be a different article from sugar, especially when table sugar points to sucrose, rather than sugar. It would make more sense to me to merge sucrose into this article, and discuss more general "sugars" elsewhere, like at carbohydrate. Shimmin 03:28, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Commercial sugar is categorized into some 20 grades, the most common seem to be #11 and #14. I suggest this article be augmented with an explanation of what these grades are.WmEKimberlySr 16:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not aware of 20 grades, I can probably name a good dozen including "caster" and "non-pareil" but I've never seen them numbered - is that a country specific thing? I would suggest it went in a subsidiary article such as List of commercial sugar grades rather than cluttering up this one. GraemeLeggett 08:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] open chain or closed

Glucose exists in an equilibrium of 10% chain, 90% ring, meaning it can exist safely in organisms.

What does this mean (the part about safety)? What would make it unsafe? Safe for the glucose, or safe for the organism? Josh Cherry 22:57, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

the chain form of glucose is the reactive form, the ring form isn't. The amount of chain form glucose is one of the limiting factors in the rate of respiration - if it was all chain form the reactions could occur too quickly, releasing too much energy. Or something like that. I can find some references if neccesary. -- Steinsky 11:35, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I changed the relevant section. Here's why.

First of all, apparently the open-chain form of glucose is much less common than the quoted 10% (about a thousand times less). Naturally I changed this.

As for the notion that the open-chain form is the substrate for energy metabolism, I can find no suggestion of this anywhere. In fact hexokinase and glucokinase, which catalyze the first step of glycolysis, seem to act on the closed-chain forms. This makes sense, as acting on such a rare form sounds like a bad strategy in terms of efficiency. Sure, you may not want to limit the rate of reaction, but just make less enzyme.

Which leads into the next point. If there were some danger of too-fast respiration, cells would just make less enzyme or something. Open-chain sugars wouldn't be a threat to life as we know it. And plenty of organisms would be happy to get faster metabolism for free.

I would add that open-chain tetrose and triose derivatives, and other molecules with free carbonyl groups, are common biochemical intermediates. Josh Cherry 02:46, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)

[edit] History question

The third crusade did not capture Jerusalem so how could one third of it have gone to the Venetians who established a sugar cane plantation. Something must be wrong here. Rmhermen 18:21, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)

I have removed this section from the article for further work:

In 1190 AD, the 3rd Crusade was carried to the Holy Land in Venetian ships. The Crusaders agreed that Venice would be paid with one-third of the land conquered. In this way one-third of Tyre, Sidon and Jerusalem came under Venetian control. The single sugar plantation established in Jerusalem went to Corneiro, brother of the Doge of Venice. The sugarcane had been carried there from India by the Muslims and had originated in the Indonesian Archipelago.

Sugar was then made by the Muscavado method which took skill (and would subsist until modern refineries were built). First, the art of casting ceramic containers capable of withstanding 1100 degrees Celsius (2000 degrees Fahrenheit) had to be mastered. Then the cane juice had to be boiled to an exact temperature and consistency; left to cool for the right time; then turned over to dry in the famous “sugarloaf” form. This cone would have precious white sugar on top, then light brown, then dark brown and finally a soggy molasses slog.

From Jerusalem, generation-by-generation, descendants of Corneiro took sugar out into the Mediterranean; first to Cyprus, Chios, Crete and other Greek Islands.

Google finds no occurrence of "Corneiro" with "sugar". Is there an off-line source that can verify this? Other problems are that Jerusalem was not in Crusaders' hands after the third crusade, most online sources say that sugar was introduced to Europe after the Second Crusade, not the Third. The text seems to imply that sugar is cooked at 2000 °F when that is the firing temp of the ceramics and it is not clear why ceramics would be necessary as you can cook sugar cane in iron pots quite well. Rmhermen 19:05, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)

I need to review my sources on the Crusades at the time of the spread of sugar by the Corneiros from Jerusalem to the Greek Islands. The Venetians transported Crusaders in a crusade of that time. It might have been the second. The granting of land may not have coincided precisely with the capture of Jerusalem. My interest is more on the acquisition and diffusion of sugar production skills and the Spanish tradition of the Greater Antilles and the Portuguese (via the Dutch) of the Lesser Antilles. It is not clear how sugar plantations and production were managed between 1190 AD and the advent of printed books (after 1450 AD). Was labor free or enslaved? The introduction of sugar, island by island, is well recorded. Cyprus, Chios, Crete. Columbus specifically mentions his visits to Chios and the similarity of its flora to the Caribbean Islands potential. Ceramics were fired at 2000 °F to contain boiling sugar. Iron containers were not available until rather late. Copper boiling pots are still found in the Caribbean Islands from before 1750. In 1200 to 1400 ceramics alone were generally available. Corneiro documents are found in the Vatican, St. Georgio Library in Genoa and in the Venetian archives. I have examined settler lists up to 1700 in most sugar colonies. One of my books, CONQUEST OF EDEN 1493-1515 is available for free download at <www.mapesmonde.com>. Little acurate information is available, other than the hand written documents in the archives or libraries mentioned above, on sugar in the Mediterranean between 1200 and 1450. I have worked on this for 20 years and read most romance languages both modern and from that period. I believe one of the few reliable sources in print is Verlinger, former head of the Belgian College in Rome. His work is published (not translated) in Italian, Spanish, Flemish and English. I am contributing only work not yet on google -or why bother [user Michael Paiewonsky]].

We do not promote original research on Wikipedia. We just compile facts - that's why we are an encyclopedia, not a research journal. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. That's not to say that much of this information isn't correct or able to be added to this article, we just need to be better about adding sources. Rmhermen 05:37, Mar 23, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This article needs some cleanup work, especially the long History of Sugar in the West section. Numerous ideas occur more than once in that section and parts of the timeline are out of order (Cuba). Rmhermen 13:58, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Production and processing and chemistry

The refining process as described refers to Cane extraction only and not to Beet extraction which takes its own distinct form. I may supply a text myself - having spent about 13 years in the industry.

The text is more knowledgable on cane than beet, presumably the author is better versed in the one than the other. For example the cane sugar countries are identified but not the beet sugar ones.


On the subject of the chemistry

Sugars are taken to go up to about 4 units, certainly the trisaccharides dersever to be included as sugars.

[edit] Sucrose bias

Why is all non-sucrose chemistry being deleted from this article? It seems to be swinging towards a culinary bias now. Joe D (t) 14:10, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The disambiguation states that it is about sugar as in sucrose the commodity. Put the chemistry into carbohydrate chemistry or disaccharides and monsaccharides, and refer to it from the chemistry section. PS This is far from a culinary article while it has my industrial production bias GraemeLeggett 15:12, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The disambiguation states that it deals with sugar the food, not sucrose, but if you interpret that as meaning only sucrose it's clearly too ambiguous itself. Joe D (t) 07:37, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
If you say 'sugar' to the ordinary person, then they understand that to mean the gritty white stuff. 'Sugars' (plural) is something else.GraemeLeggett 09:30, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Table sugar is a term that describes 'gritty white stuff' of commerce less ambiguously. I think many ordinary people understand non-sucrose sugars like 'fruit sugar' and 'malt sugar' also to be types of sugar.--Eloil 03:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sweet Salt?

Does anyone have a citation for Eleassar777's addition today about sugar being called "sweet salt"? If not, it should get reverted.

Paulus Aegineta calls sugar the Indian salt, "in colour and form like common salt, but in taste and sweetness like honey." Shimmin 11:46, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

- Sugar causes diabetes

- Sugar causes obesity

- Diabetics must avoid sugar at all cost Sugar known as sweet salt is just a comparison that does not have to been existing. If I said drowning fish, it would mean they look like they're dead. InternationalEducation 10:09, December 13, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sugar and Health

I don't know how many times I've heard the phrase "sugar is bad for you". Well, I'd sure like to know why! What evidence do they have that supports this theory?


Generally it seems to be that excessive consumption can be bad for you, more so if it causes you to omit other nutrients in your diet. This is a case of blaming the product rather than the consumer (IMHO) GraemeLeggett 13:32, 15 May 2005 (UTC)


So what's the difference between excessive consumption of vegetables and excessive consumption of sugar? Scorpionman 19:47, 28 May 2005 (UTC)


Energy levels & propaganda. The high energy value of sugar as compared to veggies is a major factor in making sugar the 'bad' also sugar by itself isn't a good nutrient (energy value aside). The other reason is the money earned from the sales of "light" (sugar-free) products - On that note, why aren't 'sugarfree' sweeteners mentioned in the article?
Another possible reason is that eating "too much" veggies is someting quite rare compared to eating "too much" sugar.--Pro bug catcher 13:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Facts have shown that sugar is very addictive and that on average Americans eat or drink 5 pounds of sugar a month, drastically higher than 10 years ago due to the fact that sugar is hidden in many foods under many different names, even in ketchup. Yes we all know how much Americans like their Ketchup. Is it really so surprising that ketchup has sugar in it? It is sweet after all. Perhaps we could do away with the stereotyping and replace ketchup with something that's actually surprising to find has sugar in it.

Some brands of salt actually have sugar in them, that's quite surprising (at least it was to me). --Pro bug catcher 13:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Ketchup is actually good for you, when consumed in reasonable quantities. Shinobu 08:54, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I just added a section on the "sugar is bad for you" theme. We're taught it causes cavities; I've never had a cavity, but over four years ago after my doctor recommended I cut out sugar (he recommends that to everybody), my general health improved tremendously. I've done lots of research and found out sugar has very bad effects on our immune system, among other things; see the entry under "Pervasiveness" on Wiki's Sugar page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gekritzl (talk • contribs) 01:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sugar-high

However, recent studies that have been done show that there is no link between comsumption of sugar and hyperactivity levels, even when the researchers focused on children with a presumed "sugar-sensitivity". - What studies? Where can the results be seen? Bit more background info would be appreciated.

Agreed. The ccmr link provided is not informative, it is the opinion of one doctor citing unnamed studies, when in fact there is a wealth of debate in this field, and a lot of information to consider. The unequivocal "no" is rediculous. consider this document http://www.garynull.com/Issues/Sugar/SugarResponse.pdf in the bookmarks is the section on SUGAR AND CHILDREN'S BEHAVIOR. it is complete with references to journals with the results of the studies it cites. The sugar industry financed studies to disprove claims of increased hyperactivity, but the studies were not very convincing. Groups of only 30 children, the amount of sugar used in some studies only that of 1 can of soda/day, when the average child consumes more than three times that amount, &c. Considerably more impressive are Schoenthaler's long term studies (seven years, 800 new york schools, 1 million children) and smaller scale but no less impressive studies with incarcerated delinquents. There's a lot of information out there. I'm not qualified to edit this page, but I suggest refining section 4.1 (pun intended). OkashinaSakana 09:35, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

The information provided for sugar-high is inaccurate to my knowledge. A sugar-high isn't limited to children and isn't a permanent condition which is being implied. That said sugar rush is only a disambiguation but is linked to from this article. The section should either be filled out or an article created of it's own. --208.44.234.50 15:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC) .

I have found a link to some references which might prove useful. http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=751999 I think we should edit the section to include BOTH points, instead of one point and a little blurb about neutrality. If ANYTHING we should show it from the standpoint of the references (that sugar does NOT produce a high) and add a blurb about neutrality. If noone says anything about it I shall take it upon myself to "be bold" and rewrite this section using actual references. Nebarnix 20:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] All sugars sweet?

"A sugar is a carbohydrate which is sweet to taste."

i hear that not all sugars are sweet (sugar referring to molecules of the formula (CH2O)n). anybody else with more experience that has the guts to go change the article? --Karch 05:47, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

can't think of a non-sweet one off hand - they are not all as intense as sucrose, but if you get the conentration up...Some of the trisaccharides might be. GraemeLeggett 13:02, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
This article is slightly more into the world of falseness than the world of truthness. Sugar aren't always sweet. For instance, NaCl(sodium chloride)is a salt and it tastes salty. Not all types of salt are salty you know. Some are posssibly even sweet. Some bitter, some sour. What makes him have the right to say sugar is sweet? I don't have any guts to change the article because I'm just a sixth grader. But I'm almost definite not all sugars are sweet. Cause if you think of it in a chemistry based way, sugar doesn't mean a sweet crystal. By the way, wouldn't we know that sugar is sweet?. So I think this article should mainly just contain chemsitry. InternationalEducation 10:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sugar

'why is sugar sweet?

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Why is sugar sweet?

Sugar sweet is that the taste buds of the toughe


[edit] Cuboid Sugar

I added a cuboid sugar picture in Wikimedia Commons. See this link. Regards, Carioca 01:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Little difference between beet and cane?

When making confectionary, I noticed that using beet or cane sugar strongly affects the taste of the end-product. However, I had refined beet sugar on the one hand, and brown cane sugar on the other, so I do not know whether the difference comes from the source plant or the refining process. Any other opinions on that?

The difference between white and brown is strong - entriely due to the presence of the molasses, the differences between refined white from either source is less though I know of people who say they can tell the difference. This may be due to a a residual odour around white sugar - in Britain white from beet is stored in large silos before packing near the factories which do smell rather, and this could leave a slight vegetable quality to a freshly opened pack. Once it is actually used in something the difference would be undetectable. In practice apart from the subjective qulaities of taste and smell the only way to tellwhite sugar from cane and beet apart is by various chemical tests - the key one is the presence of raffinose - a trisaccharide. Any help to answer the question?GraemeLeggett 08:19, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sugar rush

Currently, if you enter "sugar rush" to the search box on the left, you will arrive at the Sugar Rush article, which has a disambig link to the subheading in the sugar article. Perhaps it would be better to make a redirect from sugar rush, and add a notice in this article like "sugar rush redirects here, for the novel, see Sugar Rush", since probably most people would be looking for the effect and not the novel (which itself is named after the effect). PeepP 15:36, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, I think "sugar rush" should go straight to the novel page, like "Sugar Rush" does. Many people will search in lower case only, so I would support making both link to the novel. Paddyohale 13:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I completely disagree, Sugar Rush is actually a television show in the UK which is very popular. Not only are you ignorant of this - I quote (which itself is named after the effect). you haven't even read the novel! 'Sugar' is a character from the novel/show who is the object of desire for the protagonist Kim (with lesbian overtones, the 'rush' is sexual because Sugar is a very extroverted and sexy character.). Nowhere is the connection between sugar hyperactivity and the character of Sugar.

It is aired on prime time Channel 4 (around such big shows like Big Brother) - it's figures were in millions and it is frequently advertised. Infact, the new series 2 starts this wednesday (today). I don't know how to get rid of your edit but i strongly disagree with it, as its common sense to type 'sugar' to look for 'effects' you don't type in the search 'caffeine rush' you type in 'caffeine'. --213.106.102.178 15:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation would appear to be the answer - Sugar Rush (novel), Sugar Rush (TV series) and a link to sugar (health section). GraemeLeggett 13:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Disambiguation would work if Sugar Rush (metabolic function) or something similar existed and would redirect to an article about the bodily event. As of now, it's an empty circular reference for a complex process. --208.44.234.50 15:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raw vs. Refined

I've frequently been told that raw sugar is better for you than refined. It would be nice is this article discussed this. Anthopos 04:58, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I added some discussion of this fact under "Pervasiveness and Controversy".

[edit] sugar has also been attributed as a leading cause of diabetes

That's a news for most people. Please if it is true include citations in the Health Concerns section.

Is that "attributed" as in proven - I doubt it personally. GraemeLeggett 16:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I think "diabetes and" should be removed from the sentence "In the United States sugar has also been attributed as a leading cause of diabetes and obesity." --68.96.241.18 01:31, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
I deleted "diabetes and" from the first sentece and the second sentence in: "In the United States sugar has also been attributed as a leading cause of diabetes and obesity. As stated in the Diabetes in America, 2nd Edition [3] more and more children at younger ages are becoming victims of this deadly disease." --68.96.241.18 13:40, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

If people insist on including this quite vague assumption, it should at least only be related to type 2 diabetes, which even then is still only the case in a small percent of cases.. Either way, i've updated the article accordingly. --Nirvana- 10:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

It is natural to think that excess sugar causes type 2 diabetes since the pancreas must respond quickly and could eventually wear out. What I'd like to see is discussion of scientific testing that asserts or denies these allegations or an explicit observation that none has been done. This has been a hot topic for half a century. It seems inconceivable that conclusive lab tests have not been attempted.Rvmolen 20:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bone Char used for processing sugar

I see nowhere in this article the mention of bone char (crushed animal bones) being used for filtering of sugar. See Bone_char for more information on this. I believe that this should be mentioned as it may be a concern to vegetarians. 80.43.58.1 20:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Talk:Brown sugar

I'd like to point you to this discussion, because it appears the article contains a few incorrect facts about edibility of sugar beet molasses. Shinobu 08:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Could you be more specific about what you beleive is in error? Rmhermen 01:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

As per the linked discussion, we think the statement "molasses from sugar beet is unpalatable" is wrong. If our information is correct (and we don't really have a reason to doubt it) it is quite nice on pancakes. Also the statement that it's only sold as cattle food is wrong. Similarly, brown sugar can also be produced using beet molasses. This information was all obtained from an actual carton and the website of the producer, so it's first hand information. Shinobu 08:13, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Scrapped (small) pieces of the article suggesting beet molasses are inedible. Shinobu 21:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Speaking as someone who worked with Beet molasses and encouraged a friend to eat it (I will remember his expression for a long while) it really is not that nice. I would ask who the manufacturer of the brown sugar in question and then investigate which process they used. The amount of brown colouration required for to make sugar brown is minimal and secondly they may have used different processing to that described in the articles. GraemeLeggett 09:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

All I know is that first the beets are washed and cut up, the suger is then extracted using hot water. Chalk is added for purification purposes, which is later removed for agricultural use. Water is being evaporated and crystals form (stimulated by adding some powder sugar). The result is centrifuged to seperate the crystals from the melasses, which are sold separately, for example as syrup for pancakes etc. The Dutch wiki, the English sugar beet article, and the website as well as cartons from the producer seem to be roughly consistent. Remember that sugar cane can't grow here, so we have to use beets. When you go near Groningen in the season, you can clearly smell it too... Shinobu 12:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Importation of cane molasses into the country for making brown is not beyond companies which is what British Sugar used to do. Of courese if its already in the country because it's come from cane refining (by Tate and Lyle) then it might be a bit cheaper. Danisco (dk) seem to get it OK "Soft brown sugar consists of sugar and cane sugar syrup"[1] GraemeLeggett 12:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I worked for a beet sugar factory in Oregon as the factory chemist. We produced both light and dark brown sugar using beet sugar and blending with cane molasses to make the dark brown and using something known as coating syrup to produce the light brown. Coating syrup is a blend of cane molasses and invert sugars. I have personally tastes beet molasses and I will let the cattle have it. Most beet molasses is sent through chromatographic separation and the factories are able to pull off most of the remaining sucrose as well as in some cases amino acids, such as betaine, that can be crystallized and used to increase revenue. I hope that clears things up. Swmalone 09:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

My father used to suck on the cattle pellets while working on the farm, but that was post war Britain. I forgot about betaine - worth mentioning under molasses. I don't know if chromatographic separatation has gotten everywhere yet - depends on how the costs stack up -BS were investigating it when they "let me go" some 5 years ago now.GraemeLeggett 10:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

@blending with cane molasses: here a combination of beet syrup and caramel is used.

Anyway, to summarize things: over here beet molasses seem to be used for the production of brown sugar and syrup, which people will happily spread on their pancakes, while at your place people get sick at the thought alone.

That gives us roughly three possibilities:

  1. It's an acquired taste.
  2. We use better beets. (Yeah right.)
  3. Our processing is better.

So which one is it? Shinobu 05:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sugar under a microscope

Today, I was curious and examined some sugar. It's different from salt because it's NOT cubed. It's broken and messy.

[edit] Why is Turkey under "cane"?

This line ends the section on "Cane":

"Turkey is also one of the countries best quality sugar is produced."

a. Grammatically incorrect. b. Why the heck is it under "cane"? c. Nothing against Turkey, but isn't "best quality sugar" somewhat subjective? :-)

I'd go ahead and delete it, but just checking if anyone has justifiable cause.

[edit] other meanings of sugar...=

Shouldn't there be some infomation that there are some other meanings of SUGAR. At least "Sugar Ray Robinson" and the Band Sugar?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.247.166 (talk • contribs)

There is! See the very first line of the article (or follow: sugar (disambiguation). Happy browsing! --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. --- The Bethling(Talk) 23:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

There no citations in the current article, in-line or otherwise. Nunquam Dormio 05:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, there are two, but that's not even close to enough, i'm delisting this myself. Homestarmy 23:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delisted GA

I have delisted this article from GA status because there's no way your telling me two little references make this whole article well-referenced. Might they reference the whole thing? Maybe....but I doubt it, due to all the citation needed tags. But then, even if they somehow do, simply being referenced alone is not the same as being well-referenced. Homestarmy 23:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] commodities futures

There is no information or vary little about How Sugar is traded on the New York Bord Of Tread. Millions of dollers are invested in suger and I just thought maybe there should be more info about the commodities futures of sugar. Grosscha 17:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] =why was my sugar crash see also edit removed?

its a stub and tagged for attention and probably belongs in sucrose, though it can refer to any of the 3 major saccharide sin our diets - glucose, fructose or sucrose.? perhaps sugar crash should redirect to reactive hypoglycaemia. GraemeLeggett 10:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Teamscience

Why does the introduction use the term "teamscience' as opposed to non-scientific use. This is a term unknown to me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sethwoodworth (talk • contribs) 02:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] This is a redirect for "Castor sugar", yet I still have no idea what castor sugar is

Can someone answer this in the article? Can someone provide an explaination of what is meant by castor sugar and maybe where the name came from if applicable?

24.1.230.190 07:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

its usually Caster. It is under the section Sugar#culinary sugars. its white granulated of a particulr size range for quicker dissolving or incorporation in cake mixes. GraemeLeggett 12:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How about adding a comparison table of sugars?

How about adding a "comparison of sugars" article with a table about things like which sugars cause cavities, which ones taste sweet, various health effects and so on? Undeaf 19:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too much opinion, not enough science

There are too many statements of opinion in this article, without reference to scientific evidence. For example:

It can cause critical growth-hormone deficiency, and depletes the body of potassium and magnesium.

The link associated with this statement is to an article about the comments of some naturopath.

Additionally there are statements of belief attributed to various parties without sources given, which suggests that certain parties or bodies are being misrepresented.

This has to be one of the worst WP articles.

Ordinary Person 01:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed some junk science from "Naturopath"

The article had this paragraph that called sugar a "drug" and linked to an artcle by a "Naturopath" who had a degree in "pre-med". I took it out because if I wanted to read splogs there are already many places on the web to do that. Your a big fat meanie. And also who the heck are you?

[edit] Direct link to the FAO WHO UN diet research

Here it is for someone who knows how to update the citations: http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/AC911E/ac911e07.htm#bm07.1.3

[edit] In which century did Cuba become the richest Caribbean land?

It's not clear what "this century" means in this sentence from the article: "In this century, for example, Cuba rose to become the richest land in the Caribbean . . ."

Is it the 21st century? That's the current "this century", and Wikipedia didn't exist prior to the 21st century, so that's the obvious choice, but I really doubt it. More likely it was plagiarized from something written in the 20th century, or even earlier. Would somebody who knows/cares fix this up, or delete the "in this century" part of the sentence? Thanks. 76.28.209.137 19:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invert sugar sweeter or not?

Inverted sugar syrup says invert sugar is less sweet than sucrose; Sugar#Chemistry says it's sweeter. Yuubi 20:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

and both have credible cites. So. . . How does one make a determination? I'm going to undo the cite claiming invert is sweeter than sucrose unless a more credible cite can be shown. Peter Camper (talk) 01:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Glycemic Index

Is the Glycemic Index of sugar not relavant to this article? since most of the critism of sugar comes from the fact it causes a rapid rise in blood sugars, would this not be relevant. In fact diabetics are not encouraged to avoid sugar, only to use it in moderation, just like everything else they eat. I believe sugar (sucrose), under most circumstances has a lower G.I. than baked potatoes, a staple of many peoples diets. I think this anti-sugar stuff is rot(excuse the pun) esp. in relation to diabetics. so in short could someone include this information, and be sure to compare it to some other relatively high G.I. foods, at least then people will have a better idea of what they are eating, without all this histerical BS surounding something that could easily be part of a balanced diet. (I would do this, but I am afraid I have a conflict of interest.) Thanks. 124.197.5.33 (talk) 03:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Attribution needed for common knowledge?

"Some commentators[who?] have suggested links between sugar-consumption and health hazards, including obesity and tooth-decay."

Is "attribution" needed for something that is widely accepted as common knowledge? 66.234.220.195 (talk) 04:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Human Health part of article is Bias and Non-NPOV

The part of this Article Titled "Human health" Is Very Bias and has little to no truth in it. There have never been any reserch in to suger that found it to be harmful in any way. Tooth-decay, Even the American Dental Association says that sugers do not cause tooth decay, Tooth decay is caused mostly by starchy foods like breadsticks, cereals and potato chips that linger on teeth and prolong acid production. Diabetes, Suger doesn't cause Diabetes this part makes it sound like it does. Obesity, In 2002, a 3-year study conducted by The National Academy of Sciences concluded, “There is no clear and consistent association between increased intakes of added sugars and BMI.” BMI (Body Mass Index) is an indicator of body weight and obesity. Gout, What in the world is this doing on here, Gout result from inflammation caused by deposits of needle-like crystals in connective tissue and/or in the fluid that cushions the joint (the synovial fluid). The crystals are made up of uric acid, a waste product produced during the natural breakdown of purines. Purines are part of all our body's cells. Your kidneys eliminate it from the body mostly through urine. However, if the body produces too much uric acid or if the kidneys don't eliminate enough of it, uric acid will build up in the blood. Nothing to do with sugers. I atempted to edit this area to include more truthful data from reliable souces, but an Administrator, Mike Rosoft, removed it with out reason. If Wikipedia is truly a Free Encyclopedia that wishes its articles to be from a NPOV Then it needs to read its articles and allow people to edit parts that are too bias to include other views. Its Administrators should not be removing edits for no reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.12.117 (talk) 20:47, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intro to history section

I removed the following introduction to the History section, because it appears to be original research:

The history of sugar is a progression of growth. Sugar tastes good. Throughout history this has created demand, which in turn has fueled increases in the production of sugar, making more sugar available at affordable prices, leading to the development of more food products containing sugar and the addition of more sugar to existing products, accompanied by a growing average intake of sugar by consumers.

Particular issues: "sugar tastes good" is not a fact. I agree that sugar usually tastes good to most people, but too much sugar can taste bad to almost anyone, and I'm sure some people even dislike the taste of sweet things. In any case, it isn't encyclopedic, and doesn't present any useful information other than that there is a historical demand for sugar, which is true for most foods anyway. My other issue is the progression of greater demand -> greater supply -> lower price -> greater demand accompanied by practically identical greater demand. While this progression at a glance seems reasonable, I don't see any references for it, so I have to conclude that it is original research. -kotra (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Many un-mentioned types of sugar

The article doesn't really mention the wide variety of sugars currently being sold. These are all real things that exist in the real world -- easily verifiable with Google or a trip to the grocery store -- with no reference on Wikipedia.

  • cane juice crystals
  • dehydrated cane juice crystals
  • unrefined cane juice crystals
  • raw cane crystals
  • washed cane juice crystals
  • Florida crystals (a trademarked name)
  • unbleached evaporated sugar cane juice crystals
  • crystallized cane juice
  • unbleached crystallized evaporated cane juice
  • organic dehydrated cane juice
  • unbleached sugar cane
  • evaporated cane juice
  • evaporated cane juice sugar

Sincerely, Fothergill Volkensniff IV (talk) 03:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)