Talk:Sudovian language
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[edit] Old talk
User:David Parker, you added a Sudovian language, which I did not. I do not know of a seperate Sudauer or Sudovian language, even though Jatwingian is recorded seperately.The Jatwiger-Sudauer inhabitants are recorded in southern Prussia, which reached further than it did in later years. Between circa 1700 and 1900 several Prussian Vocabularies (Woerterbuecher) were written, but I do not believe a seperate Sudovian language article should exist.
Whoever you claim to be (and if you want to engage in discussion or have your "articles" taken seriously you can start by giving a NAME), there is no such word in the English langiage as Sudauer, and this is an-English-language encyclopedia.
Sudauer is perfectly legitimate in German Wikipedia, but has no legitimate existence here as a title. The English word for the German Sudauer is Sodovian or Sudovians.
Jatvingian (no w in English) is considered another name for or a part of a single language or dialect with the more common name Sudovian. It's stupid to put two equivalent names in the title. It's one or the other, with links from the less-used Jatvingian and Yotvongian.
You so far have Sudovian as a dialect of Old Prussian, and as a language in its own right (which means Old Prussian has to be a language group, not a language. Which is it to be? You created a separate article, not me. Think for once before filling Wikipedia with this drivel. User:David Parker
- Whoever our mystery author is, he/she assumes, David, that you are more familiar with the common English word "Vocabularies" rather than the definitive German word "Woerterbuecher". MichaelTinkler
Hiya folks. Now now. I vote for the merger, as the use of Sudovian alone would mean primarily the Sudovian language in English. To mean something else Sudovian, you would have to have been talking about it previously.
Actually, whether a language is a dialect or a distinct language is a serious qustion in linguistics. It depends on what you mean by dialect. Maybe that should be defined and referenced. The term is somewhat amorphous. The question comes up when languages are close. I've looked at both Prussian Reconstructions and the Verdainas site. Sudovian and Old Prussian are pretty close, but they are not the same. But you know, I'd like to know where the Verdainas gets its Sudovian!
Anyway, I believe the linguists classify the three as West Baltic, a group of languages, as opposed to East Baltic, another such group. I don't know much about Galindian, and there can't be much to know. People use these terms sometimes for hypothetical languages when everyone thinks the language is known. I'd like to know who knows it.
If part of Lithuania is Sudovia, that is because the ancient Sudovians there assimilated to the Lithuanians. It is a common phenomenon. The Alans, for example, were once an Iranian-speaking people. They were pushed into the Caucasus by the Huns. Today about half the Alans speak Caucasian and have their own state, but they descend from the ancestors of the Iranian Alans.
Sudovia fought for the Prussians, and so the Deutchen Orden came after them too, pillaging, burning, killing and expelling. Nobody thinks they behaved too well. As for the double name, the Sudovians got that in deep antiquity. I think they got it from the Goths, who once ruled Prussia. When the ancient sources speak of Gothic or Vandalic territory in the north (same people), they mean Gothic-dominated Baltic territory. It is generally thought that Danzig (Gdansk) was founded by Goths, just as Elbing was founded by Vikings. Either Sudovii or Iotvingi was assigned by the Goths. I'd like to write about it here but I need to research it first. Why don't you do the same?
As for the foreign words, gee, it is hard to avoid them when you are writing about foreign countries. There ought to be a standard but it has to be flexible.
There are plenty of definitive English words, such as "dictionary." Sometimes you like to speak more abstractly.
[edit] Sudovians vs. Yotvingans
Please see Talk:Sudovians. mikka (t) 17:06, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
