Talk:SU-122

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I would like to propose that the SU-100, SU-85 and SU-122 be merged into a single article. The vehicles are basically the same differing guns. Oberiko 15:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

This image is grossly incorrect for the SU-122. It is quite obviously an SU-85. The name of the image even calls it an SU-85. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.91.69 (talk • contribs)

Whoever named the file misidentified the vehicle. Click on the big picture and have a close look—the gun barrel is no more than two metres long. The SU-85's gun is much longer. —Michael Z. 2005-11-30 04:04 Z

Whoever made the image photoshopped it. Look at the mantlet, it is clearly the ball shaped mantlet of the Su-85. The Su-122's gun mantlet was brick shaped. Look: http://www.2iemeguerre.com/blindes/images/su122_PHOTO.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by USMA2010 (talk • contribs)

Like many other things on Soviet AFVs, I think the new mantlets were phased in, and possibly retrofitted to older vehicles during repair or refurbishment. I think I may be able to find a specific reference for the SU-122's mantlet; stay tuned. —Michael Z. 2006-02-08 19:02 Z

Zaloga (1984), p. 160–61 has pictures of SU-122s with both mantlet styles, including the caption for photo 233: "Late production batches of the SU-122 used the same ball socket mantlet of the SU-85." —Michael Z. 2006-02-08 20:22 Z

"Whoever made the image photoshopped it"—please assume just a bit of good faith before making unfounded accusations. —Michael Z. 2006-02-08 20:31 Z

Here is my rather solid proof:

http://wwiivehicles.com/ussr/tank_destroyers/su85/su_85_01.jpg

Su-85, exact same image. Note the long barrel, not to mention the fact that the cannon shown in ::the current image is both too long and too narrow to be based on the 122mm M-30 series. Compare ::that to what we can all identify to the Su-122 III.

http://www.weapon.df.ru/tanks/sovsau/medium/su122m.jpg --USMA2010

It's not photoshopped, it's just such a contrasty, over-jpegged scan that the white weather-cap on the muzzle completely disappears. But I think you are correct that it is an SU-85.

It is interesting what a difference a few degrees of angle makes in the apparent length of the gun, e.g. photos #2 and #3 at wwiivehicles.com. Also note the minor differences in the mantlet of the 122M and 122-3 at weapon.df.ru; I think the M was only a prototype; only the 122-3, with mantlet resembling an SU-85's, was built. —Michael Z. 2006-02-08 21:18 Z

The weather cap was a possibility that I considered at first, but then I noticed the next AFV down the line, definatly a Su-85. Its barrel was uncapped, so I didn't really think that one would have it on and the other wouldn't. When I found the exact same picture upon doing a Google image search for "Su-85 1944" I became suspicious.

Thanks to whoever removed the image. I'm still fairly new to the whole Wikipedia editing experience, so I still need some practice before I can go off and do anything like that. Now, seeing as how the majority of Su-122 examples did in fact have the boxier style mantlet, I think it would be best if the next image to be displayed is an earlier production example. ---USMA2010

That was me. Feel free to edit whatever way you judge to be appropriate, but it's always a good idea to explain why you are doing something in the edit summary. If you are changing something that seems well established, it can be a good idea to leave a note in discussion first, but don't worry about making mistakes—they can be corrected or reverted.

It would be good to have photos of both types to explain the variation, but unfortunately there don't seem to be any scans of SU-122s on Wikipedia or the commons at all. —Michael Z. 2006-02-09 04:35 Z

[edit] Wrong image

There was a wrong image, added by Megapixie. SU-100 SPG is pictured on it. I replaced it by correct image of SU-122. LostArtilleryman 05:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SU-122 Variants

There are some incorrect facts in this section. According to my native Russian AFV experts book A.G.Solyankin et al. "Soviet medium self-propelled guns 1941-1945", there were four subvariants of SU-122:

• Prototype of SU-122 (or U-35 vehicle) - upper front armour from two plates under different angles, uncomfortable gun mount
• Series SU-122 - single front armour plate, improved gun mounting. During production period there were some minor variations (number of ventilators, crew downsized from 6 to 5 men)
• Prototype SU-122M with D-11 howitzer in ball mounting
• Prototype SU-122-III with D-6 howitzer

There was not any SU-122s on the SU-100 base - it is quite obvious confuse with SU-85M variant. LostArtilleryman 05:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)