Talk:Styx (band)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WikiProject Illinois This article is part of WikiProject Illinois, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Illinois on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
Chicago Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chicago, which aims to improve all articles related to Chicago.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians and musical groups on Wikipedia.
Photo request It is requested that a picture or pictures of this person be included in this article to improve its quality.
Remember that article talk pages are provided to coordinate the article's improvement only, and are not for engaging in discussion of off-topic matters not related to the main article. User talk pages are more appropriate for non-article-related discussion topics. Please do not use this page as a discussion forum for off-topic matters. See talk page guidelines.
Image:File.svg
Archives

Contents

[edit] External link

I'd like to add a video interview with Dennis DeYoung to external links. He is speaking about Styx and band dynamics. Here is the interview. Ammosh11 20:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Excellent interview. I believe it will bring a lot of people together who believe that DDY is Styx or that Tommy/JY are Styx. Styx is a BAND; always has been, always will be.--Bamadude 23:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chuck Panozzo

Why is Chuck Panozzo listed under "Current members" if he left in 1998? Badagnani 03:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Probably because it's less accurate to call him a former member; Chuck still joins the band as often as he can, according to the last entry I saw at StyxWorld. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 03:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Chuck is still listed on Styxworld.com (the official Styx site) as a member. Chuck did leave as a full-time member in 1998, but it's agreed that Chuck can have his full-time position back anytime he wants it and he plays at a number of shows each year, so he's a part-time member (so to speak), and anybody playing bass, though a member of the band (per se) is considered a "fill-in" until and if Chuck ever comes back. He was diagnosed as HIV-positive in 1998 & with prostate cancer in 2004, so his full-time return would certainly be against all odds, but he's still a member of Styx nonetheless and an original member at that.--Bamadude 00:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Chuck still plays at 75% of the shows for about 4 songs, he was at the show last night in St Louis (12/28/06) He also played on a song on Big Bang Theory. He's still an intricate part of the band.Styxfannh 19:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't recall Ricky Phillips being a part of Styx in 2004. Glen Burtnik was touring with Styx in 2003-2004 in support of Cyclorama. and he was set to record on the "Big Bang Theory" CD, but he had stated that he was leaving the band due to personal reasons, which Tommy Shaw said on Styx's website had more to do with his being homesick and away from his family (wife and daughter) than with the fact that Kiss Your Ass Goodbye (which incidently was written by all the members of the current line up of Styx) not charting. Ricky Phillips wasn't mentioned as being in the band until the summer of 2005 when Tommy Shaw commented that they were doing some dates before recording a new CD (what was supposed to be original songs) but was asked to release a cover version of "I Am The Walrus" and Styx rushed to record it live with then-new bass player Ricky Phillips.(These comments were left by user kilroy2006 and edited by Bamadude to be readable by human beings.--Bamadude 00:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC))

Glen left in September of 2003 and was replaced by Ricky Phillips. Glen was long gone when Big Bang Theory came into existence. "Kiss Your Ass Goodbye" was written by Glen, "One With Everything" was written by the entire band together. "Kiss Your Ass Goodbye" was never released as a single and therfore couldn't chart. Glen later included it in his Welcome To Hollywood CD. Styx did the Beatles cover of "I Am A Walrus" at the Eric Clapton Crossroads Festival in Dallas on June 5, 2004. They then added it to their set and DJ Greg Solk from WLUP in Chicago told them they would play it if they recorded it. They recorded it at Chinook Winds Casino in Lincoln City, Oregon on September 10, 2004. http://styxworld.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=135870&PT=TheBand Styxfannh 19:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
No, Ricky joined the band around the end of 2003.(Another unsigned comment left by user kilroy2006)
Ricky became a member of Styx on 9/22/03[1]. Styxfannh 01:05, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prog?

I have never called Styx progressive. And there isnt a source. So Im taking it off. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 19:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone beat me to the obvious revert. YOU haven't called Styx progressive? Bully for you. A Google search turned up 8 independent sources on the first three pages alone. (Here's one[1] that at least acknowledges the fact that they reside somewhere in the pop/arena rock/prog rock triple point.) Quite a few authors have worked on this page and we have hashed and re-hashed over virtually every word in the article, as the discussion archives will show. We welcome you joining us as a participating author, but it would be best on any subjective point if you discuss first and edit later. Dpiranha 21:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
To add to that... (since my original text hit an edit conflict :D )... They started out very progressive and carried prog elements in their music even when they found a more a more mainstream direction. All Music Guide mentions this style being tied to the band on many occasions. All of their albums on Wikipedia have AMG links for reviews. And all those reviews list Prog and art rock among the band's namy styles. The 'genre impairment' edit has been corrected. 156.34.217.117 21:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:StyxLogo2.png

Image:StyxLogo2.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kilroy2.jpg

Image:Kilroy2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

This image, from the Kilroy Was Here album, is used to give information about that album in the article concept albums. The image is also used to describe the album in Styx (band). The image qualifies as fair use per Wiki policy. --98percenthuman (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not first band with four consecutive multi-platinum albums.

This is one of the first sentences in the first paragraph of the page. They were not the first band to have four multi-platinum albums one after the other. Led Zeppelin made this achievement even before Styx's first album came out. Am I misunderstanding something here or did they just want to up Styx's reputation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.123.139.145 (talk) 16:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POPULARITY

I'm a newbie so kill me if you want, but the article USED TO say "was popular in the 70's and 80's".

Subjective, and WRONG. Styx is still around and is still popular, as evidenced by the dozens of sold-out shows they play every year.

I edited for the correct subjectiveness... article now reads "popular SINCE the 70's". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.43.127 (talk) 06:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tipper once for me

Mrs. Gore's first public appeal on the subject of music lyrics came in response to hearing her daughter playing the song "Darling Nikki", which was released in 1984. She co-founded the PMRC in 1985. So while her inclusion in the Paradise Theater section is appropriately written, her inclusion in the Kilroy Was Here section is not. "Heavy Metal Poisoning" was released in 1983, and likely written in 1982, at a time when I'd venture to guess James Young had never heard of Tipper Gore. While it's understandable that her name became shorthand for a certain type of parental response to music among those who found it hysterical and overbearing, it's unencyclopedic to name-check her in a case where that response came from others, at a time when she had not yet felt moved to form the PMRC. That the PMRC would cite the band and the rumor of backward-masking in 1985 likely had something to do with a conclusion based upon the etymology of the band's name (as DeYoung is cited as inferring), but more to do with the fact of rumors that had been circulated by the religious right and others some years earlier. For the record, I have loved the band since childhood; I voted for Al Gore; I think the allegations of Satanism against the band were the result of ignorance; I enjoy the ironies of the intentional backward-masking on "Heavy Metal Poisoning"; and I think the effort to develop a ratings system for music is noble from the standpoint of society, vitally important from the standpoint of parenthood, counterproductive from the standpoint of censorship, and obtrusive (though not oppressive) from the standpoint of artistic creativity. While my first reaction to the PMRC was to scoff, if not chafe, maturity has brought me to see it from other angles. There are statutes governing what the other four senses can experience prior to a certain age, and profanity and "mature themes" are subject to ratings in film; say what you will about that, but music is a notable omission. Abrazame (talk) 06:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

The bigger question here is, where's the beef(y references)? You can't accuse groups or people of anything without some references, and the only Wikipedia link between Styx and the PMRC seems to be a link from the PMRC article to a dubious webpage that mentions none of the specifics claimed here. For now I've added some citation requests and made some other trims, but this entire section will go shortly if some refs aren't added. Jgm (talk) 12:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
That you see my attribution of "religous right" as the irresponsible accusation when both the point of the historical controversies and the mention in the article was that it was they who were accusing Styx of things—and that you immediately erased it without debate—is an irony I think Young, DeYoung and co. would appreciate. A reference request tag is something I see you're familiar with by your use of one elsewhere in your recent edits here. It's neither the mark of a good editor nor Wiki policy to simply delete things which you merely suspect may not be accurate, or which political correctness or subjective interpretation causes you to see a red flag in. Though of course it was not part of their "Filthy Fifteen", the PMRC did reference Styx in their crusade—two or three years after the Kilroy album, which is why I removed the second reference to Tipper Gore but not the first (as the first reference was written with factual accuracy). It is a matter of record, and if you or I can't find it online in ten minutes, maybe someone else interested enough in the issue being properly addressed here to track that down (or familiar enough to know what to cite without research), if you'd just tag it and note your request on the talk page here. Styx wasn't merely smeared with allegations, they were inspired to take the time, effort, creativity, and risk to create a concept album and stage show about it, so this article is certainly an appropriate place to write about this issue, especially as that show figured heavily in the band's breakup. The more important issue, both contextually and chronologically (as the references were in sections about 1981 and 1983 compositions) is not the PMRC facet some see as a self-fulfilled prophecy (ergo the double mention), but the real model for the "Majority for Musical Morality", which was the name of the fictional fascists in DeYoung's satire. He knew he wasn't dealing with Rhodes Scholars either in the target of his satire or his target audience, so he didn't craft a name too remote from the source of his chagrin, the Moral Majority. Right-wing religious activist Jerry Falwell (whom I did not name check in my edit, but who deserves mention more than Tipper Gore for the subject in question) was indeed a part of the religious right, and the period in question (1981) was indeed a time of ascendancy for Falwell's fame and political influence. The Moral Majority was a powerful, well-funded, right-wing, political lobbying group. By my mentioning that, I was not sniping at a sweet congregation of church people nor was I conflating the rumors of a smattering of individuals who held vague suspicions. The group emerged from a crumbling coalition in the late '70s with a more defined agenda and more determined and focused strategies for their multi-pronged approach, and are historically credited with getting Republican Ronald Reagan the evangelical vote to assume the presidency in that year, despite the fact that he was a Hollywood actor and governor of California (otherwise not elements seen by such a group as sympathetic to their values), while incumbent Jimmy Carter was a former wartime Navy Admiral and a born-again Christian. These are historical facts, not opinion. And this may seem to some visiting the Wiki page of Styx to be tangential, but the context in which society and culture tussles across the political, religious, societal, artistic, capitalistic and commercial levels is precisely the subtext Styx was dealing with in many of their songs over several years, although never so directly as during this period which, simmering previously, caught fire with "Snowblind" and culminates in the Kilroy extravaganza. The band's work was not merely the product of the times they operated in but in some way influenced the times as well, as evidenced by the controversy they found themselves caught up in for several years running. I have to not only assume that you and the other editor are not familiar with the issue but that you're not terribly interested with becoming so ("this entire section will go shortly" has a detached paternalism that may seem to some like the preferred style for an objective Wiki editor, but seems to me to be subjective in its overvaluation of the appearance of objectivity at the cost of accuracy which clearly would result in a worse article here, not a better one), but here is a New York Times article dealing with precisely these historical facts in precisely this context (the Kilroy tour) for anyone who is interested. [2] Further, the Wiki article to read on the subject is not the PMRC article but the well-referenced article on backmasking, which not only addresses the context of the religio-political atmosphere of the time accurately, but gives a snappier quote (that one may be an opinion on my part) from James "JY" Young than the one you removed by DeYoung [although DeYoung's quote addressed the stigma their name held with such groups]). As I'm not interested in starting a revert war and was simply trying to make the article more accurate by changing a string of a mere half-dozen words or so (and perhaps I am motivated somewhat by the hope that someone whose intention is to be a better editor will be moved to reevaluate their MO), I will leave it to you or others to unwhip your vanilla butter, or leave it here to congeal and sour the article until it is removed if you still see fit. In other words—and I only press these points because of your evolving elucidation of philosophies—are such "trims" as yours motivated by a desire to carry out the enforcement of rules, or an honest interest in presenting salient truth clearly and in proper context? Because, to go back to the stance you present above in regard to my edit, my assertion that it was the religious right who objected to Styx et al would not be seen by the Moral Majority or the current incarnations of the religious right as an accusation against them. They would see it as a point of pride; it was one of their raisons d'etre. Because of that, I thought it was obvious enough a point to be inserted without citation, and am quite surprised to find it removed twice in one day. Abrazame (talk) 02:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
As the person responsible for the first delete, my apologies. I didn't notice the explanation on the talk page before reacting to the edit which took a well-defined individual and group and replaced it with a more generic group giving the appearance of a politically or religiously-motivated agenda. But after reading your discussion and reviewing the various links, I see that you are correct. And certainly citations would be ideal, as Jgm points out, but I don't think the lack of them invalidates the section in the article. It was, after all, a major issue with the band as pointed out regarding Snowblind and Kilroy. Perhaps a brief reference in the main article could lead to a lengthier discussion on the page for the album itself. McJaje (talk) 15:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
And, whew. Not sure I absorbed everything from that slab of a paragraph, but to address what appear to be questions about my edits and their intents:
  • I have no agenda other than clarity, conciseness, and verifiability.
  • I have left the statement that Paradise was a target of the PMRC with a request for citation. The NYT article you point to is a good one and should be cited somewhere if it has not been, but it does not call out the PMRC (just saying the "religious right" which seems closer to McJaje's approach). I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just pointing out that controversial or accusatory statements need to be referenced.
  • "Tipper Gore's PMRC" is not an acceptable usage in my view. Those who want to understand the history and makeup of the PMRC can go to that (linked) article.
  • I shortened quotes in the interest of staying on topic and readability. If you think a longer quote is more appropriate in any spot I'd be glad to discuss here. All quotes are supposed to be referenced, by the way. Jgm (talk) 14:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)