Talk:Stray voltage

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 31 May 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

I object to the remark that my article was patent nonsense. It may not be an in depth scientific discussion of the problems with the electric transmission system in the United States but it is certainly a verifiable and truthful overview. Stray Voltage is a very serious issue in any area of our country that has a number of dairy farms. I am in Wisconsin, the "dairy state" and I know that dairy farmers are battling this issue continually in addition to the issue of the power of the utility companies to prevent the dairy farmers from finding satisfaction.

In the US, electricity is sent out on transmission lines. All electricity sent out, must return to the substation it came from. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance, and our utility companies commonly use the earth to provide that path. Anything in the way of that path may be affected by the electricity as it returns. Dairy farms are often wet (water, manure) and the cows are in direct contact with the earth. They also frequently have a lot of metal work, another electrical conductor. So, if a dairy farm is between the substation and a transformer, they may be inundated with the current as it returns to the substation.

All lactating and or/gestating mammals are affected by stress. Stress causes hormonal changes that may prevent the animal from producing milk or even having a normal or natural labor and delivery. Stray voltage has been documented as causing stress. Some of the ways it may cause stress are to cause electric shocks, stress, distress, or discomfort when in contact with watering devices.

Dairy (milk) is a huge industry in the USA. Stray Voltage causes thousands if not millions of dollars of lost revenue to dairy farmers. However, Utility companies are also very powerful financially and they would have to acknowledge culpability, and then change the way they transmit electricity to solve this issue.

Waiting4rain 01:44, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

  • OK. I'll withdraw the speedy. But this article needs serious re-writing. It reads like a rant from a mad scientist rather than an enclopaedic article. It's uncategorised, lacks structure and doesn't follow wiki conventions. Dontdoit 02:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Well, I renominated it. Besides the speedy reasons, it reeks of POV pushing and OR. If this is to be kept, it needs some really good support. By the way, there is a term called stray voltage and this article does not do the correct usage justice. That usage may only be a dictdef so not deserving of an article here. Vegaswikian 02:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, although I'm not an expert on the US, I doubt that it's correct that they use earth return for <emph>transmission</emph> although they may use it for distribution. It's also not correct to say that earth return is not used in Europe; it is used; albeit only rarely in very remote areas. Dontdoit 02:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The original article was impermissibly POV. But "stray voltage," especially on dairy farms, is a very notable concept and a good article can be written on it from reliable sources. One would be US Department of Agriculture Handbook No. 67, "Effects of Electrical Voltage/Current on Farm Animals. There is also "Ground Currents and the Myth of Stray Voltage" by O.C. Seevers, P.E. There was an article on this in Electrical World magazine in the early 1990's which it will cost a trip to a university library to find. The article said it was a myth that stray voltage, ground current and EMF were the same thing. It was a myth that electrical systems should not be connected to the earth (to avoid having earth currents flow) It was a myth that stray voltage is caused only by the utility, so the utility should fix it. It said that improperly wired farm equipment often caused higher levels of stray voltage than could be caused by the operation of the utility system. On the utility side, unbalanced loads and inadequately sized neutral, along with poor grounding at the poles and transformers, can contribute to stray voltage. Having single phase and two phase branches on the distribution system can contribute to stray voltage. Trees in need of trimming can make repeated intermittent contact with high voltage conductors, causing unbalanced currents which cause stray voltage. On the customer side, undersized neutrals, poor connections, corrosion in meter fittings, and inadequate grounding may contribute, as can defective or improperly wired customer equipment. Unbalanced customer load can be a cause. Use of 120v rather than 240 volt (US) equipment can contribute. Equipotential planes (wire mesh embedded in concrete floors) bonded to all metal equipment in the barn can help, as required by the National Electric Code for new construction. The potential differences in dairy barns can be due to both the utility system equipment and the farmer's equipment. Most corrections are by fixing the farmer's wiring, not the utility wiring, in general. This could be merged to an article on power quality, because similar issues of a voltage difference between neutral and the earthed ground conductor, or between the ground conductor and local ground, are common in computer and electronic equipment, in hospital operating rooms, and anywhere equipment or living things might suffer harm from unintended differences of potential. "Touch and step potential" is a similar safety issue around high voltage utility facilities. Early 19th century telegraph systems used the earth as a return path. Late 19th century telephone companies switched to a metallic return path to reduce interference. Electric utilities do not use the earth as an intentional return path for AC current. I believe some high voltage DC transamission lines have the option of using the earth as a retun path is one of the conductors (positive or negative) fails. Electric and gas utilities apply DC voltage to underground pipes to reduce corrosion, and the earth may be a return path (along with old trolley car rails buried under pavement). A metallic path is provided for return current in AC distribution. Leakage current in customer applications may flow through the ground, and unbalanced loads may result in some current flow to ground. Certainly in faults current flows to ground. At every pole with a transformer on it and at every pad-mount transformer I have seen there is a ground rod connected to the neutral for safety and to establish a ground reference, and there is a ground to neutral connection to a cold water pipe or ground rod system at the customer's main panel. There is a metallic return path to the transformer. Some current may flow to ground from unbalance or fault conditions. I have personally experienced shocks from the water from an electric hot water heater in which the heating element was somehow leaking current and the water pipes were nonmetallic. In old houses without grounded outlets I have seen substantial voltages between a range or refrigerator and the cold water pipe of the sink. I expect that a cow would resent the tingle from any voltage difference between the milking machine and the floor of the milking parlor. Establishing equipotentiality between the equipment and anything the cow touches would be critical to a successful dairy operation. The flow of current and the presence of electric fields on transmission and distribution overhead wires can result in induced currents in nearby metal objects. In radio stations and audio or video production facilities a few volts of difference between the grounds on different outlets have led to hum or "hula" distortion in video which would put them out of business as surely as a dairy farm with upset cows. Electromagnetic fields surround power conductors and appliances outside and inside the home, and their possible effects on humans have been a topic of debate and academic study since the 1970's, with little evidence they cause cancer or other ailments, but the issue is far from resolved. Edison 15:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so this article has many serious problems. Here's a nitpick (by comparison to the larger problems): Currently it says that some farm in Michigan got measured "stray voltage" of "below one milliampere". Since when did anyone start measuring voltages in amperes ? I find it hard to believe the US supreme court would commit such a physics 101 error. Is there a reference ? --Eivind Kjørstad 15:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)