Talk:Stradivarius

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Modern Strad or Baroque? Re-converted?

Most of the Strads are in the hands of Modern Violin players, and therefore were adapted to modern playing, being substantially modified, mostly in the 19th century. Just a few of them- if any of them- remain in original setups, as baroque violins.

I think that this should be pointed out really well. Also, in the list of known Strads, there should be a column specifying if these instruments are either original, converted to modern instruments, or reconverted into their original baroque setup.

I would like to point out that this is something crucial to know how actually these instruments were conceived. -Francisco


[edit] Prices of Strads

I think this section needs updating. The article says that "the highest price paid for a Stradivarius was £947,500 ($1.6 million) for the "Kreutzer Strad" at Christie's in London, 1998", but just off the top of my head, Joshua Bell sold his 1732 Strad violin for over $2 million and bought the 'Gibson Ex Huberman' Strad for perhaps a little less than $4 million. A quick look at his website seems to confirm this.

NEW YORK - A nearly 300-year-old Stradivarius violin sold Tuesday for more than $3.5 million, shattering the record for the highest amount paid for a musical instrument at auction, Christie's said. The instrument, made in 1707 by Italian violinmaker Antonio Stradivari, sold at Christie's auction house for $3,544,000 after less than five minutes of bidding.

[edit] Construction, etc.

The statement + - :"Recent studies indicate that Antonio Stradivari may have used wood from an old cathedral for its construction which might be a reason for its sound quality." + - needs explanation (What about the wood from an old cathedral is so special?), and a source--it's definately not common knowledge. —siroχo 07:12, May 13, 2005 (UTC) + - * Yeah, calls for research. My recollection is that wonderful things happen as wood ages long enuf, changing from a composite material made of fibers bonded to each other to something that at least resembles (and perhaps actually constitutes) a crystalline structure. That may be some help. + - : I also think i heard yet another theory recently that involved getting access to wood intended for the Venetian navy when they cancelled a planned expansion:--Jerzy·t 02:44, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Recent indicam que Antonio Stradivari pode ter usado a madeira de uma catedral velha para sua constru��o que p�de ser uma raz�o para sua qualidade sadia." necessita a explana��o (o que sobre a madeira de uma catedral velha � assim especial?), e uma fonte -- n�o � definately conhecimento comum. [ [ User:Siroxo|]]�< pia batismal color=#627562>siro< pia batismal color=#627562>χ[[Special:Contributions/Siroxo|< pia batismal color=#627562>o ] ] 07:12, maio 13, 2005 (UTC)
yeah, chamadas para a pesquisa. Meu recollection � que as coisas maravilhosas acontecem porque a madeira envelhece o enuf longo, mudando de a [ [ material composto ] ] feito das fibras seligaram-se a algo que se assemelha ao menos (e constitui talvez realmente) a uma estrutura cristalina. Aquela pode ser alguma ajuda: Eu penso tamb�m que eu me ouvi contudo uma outra teoria recentemente que o acesso come�ando involvido � madeira pretenda para a marinha venetian quando cancelaram uma expans�o de planeamento. -- [[User:Jerzy|Jerzy ] ]�[ [ usu�rio talk:Jerzy|t ] ] 02:44, 1 junho 2005 (UTC)


These naive excursi simply arise from hearsay of the properties of well-aged wood. All the first-rank cabinet-makers of Stradivarius' time had timbers seasoning in covered, ventilated sheds behind their workshops, a major item in inventories. The magical "cathedral" element appears to come from some credulous editor's DRB. --Wetman 23:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The old cathedral wood theory came from a believe that a bell tower structural wood was absorbing vibrations and contributing to the quality of the wood resonance.

please do not remove other people's comments from discussion page. --JeremyLydellHaugen 05:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

It was my content that I deleted, and as there is no system of authority in the artisan fields, there aren't any references. I can tell you the names of some respected luthiers who know the principle as a fact, but I'm sure that wouldn't be enough. Which is why this information stays esoteric, and is why I removed my entry. - Uvirith

please do not remove other people's comments from discussion page. Also I would say the larger goal of projects like Wikipedia are the elimination of the unknown and of esoteric knowledge, so deleting info of this type is unacceptable in this fourum. Further, I'm restoring the last deleted section, although I would like some references to back up the assertions made (studies, etc.) --JeremyLydellHaugen 03:40, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Davidov cello

Re Davidov I gots no source & i won't make the change even to "being played by", but i'm pretty sure (even if i may have originated the wording "owned by") that i recently heard Ma has it on indefinite loan, i suppose from her estate. (I think what i heard also said he usually chooses a custom made modern instrument over it.) --Jerzy·t 02:44, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • the article is correct as it is, everything I read suggests she left it to Yo Yo Ma who now owns it. Paradiso 08:34, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • I might add that Yo-Yo Ma uses the Davidov in slightly modified form as his Baroque cello. His main cello is a 1733 Montagnana. --JeremyLydellHaugen 05:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed entry

re: Joban-Horsteiner-Stradivarius. A German made violin built almost 100 years after Antonio Stradivari's death is outside the scope of true Strads. I have removed the reference. Listed instruments should be confined to Stradivarius instruments made during the lifetime of Antonio Stradivari by AS in Cremona, Italy (or in later years with help from his sons Francesco and Omobono). --JeremyLydellHaugen 05:40, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Verfiability and Citations

Currently, this page's ranking is about 0% on the verifiability scale. While it's somewhat common knowledge that there are really nice old musical instruments called Stradivarius in existence, practically everything else included in the article is not. A vast majority of the listed extant instruments link to empty pages (where no citations will be found) and we have only the word of the editor who included them to document that these instruments do, indeed, exist. This simply isn't acceptable. Tomorrow I will remove any instruments which link to empty pages since they aren't supported with citations, and will then remove any who do have individual pages which don't include citations. They can be added back in once citations are available. Freaking Wonderful 18:34, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

The bulk of links on the Stradivarius page are placeholder links based on a common naming scheme for Strad instruments. To say the least, creating linked pages for almost 700 or so odd Stradivari instruments is a heddy job. Some of the instruments link to specific external articles regarding some piece of trivia regarding the instrument, but the bulk of them are just yet-unwritten internal wikipedia links. Adequate proof of most of these instruments existence can be easily found ([1] for example lists 682 - which often includes photos and a list of prior owners), especially when associated with a current musician. All the instruments that I have personally made notes on do indeed exist. While I certainly would not mind removing links on instruments that do not yet have any internal wikipedia page, to delete anything that doesn't currently have an external link seems extreme. --JeremyLydellHaugen 19:48, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Removing red links is fine but there is no reason to delete instruments. I'll put the cozio.com link at the bottom of the article, it helps with verifiability. Paradiso 03:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Is it just me or does the detailed theories and reproduction attempts section sound like they came from a paper someone written for class? The style of writing doesn't feel like it was written for an encyclopedic medium. It also utilizes the first person.129.21.189.174 19:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Violin materials

The two references I added contain information on the type of wood used. The National Geographic article states Stradivari used violins built from spruce wood contemporary to his lifetime, while the Physics Web article says: The front plate of the violin is carved from a solid block of fine-grained pine. Maple is usually used for the back plate and pine for the sides., which seems to distinguish them. If Strads are or were indeed distinctive in this way, it should be pointed out. The Wiki article says that the top is usually spruce, so perhaps the Physics Web article stumbled on this (though it won an award from the Acoustical Society of America). I am happy to defer to experts who can sort this out. --Blainster 17:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll agree that a section of information on materials is a good idea, but there seems to be a lot of conjecture and rumor about Strad instrument materials, almost to the degree of myth. It would seem that AS used many woods for his instruments (spruce, maple, pine, poplar), and there is no definitive commonality between all of them, and so the section would have to reflect that. Comments on the varnish, workmanship, etc. would also be useful. Modern instruments are much the same way, most, but not all being a spruce top and maple back and sides. I wouldan expert on the subject should be asked to contribute, and that most certainly is not me. In the meantime, perhaps links at the bottom to the two articles you mention... --JeremyLydellHaugen 21:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] harps

if Stradivarius never made any harps, then why is there even a section about it? I see no reason to have the "harps" section in the main article and am requesting it be removed. i will check back here in 5 days and see if anyone objects to having the section removed. Osmo250 04:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Antonio Stradivari made A SINGLE harp in his lifetime. He did make ONE (at least if the source material is accurate). There's even an external reference listed, which leads to this quote: "Stradivarius made over 1,000 instruments, 600 of which are known to have survived, including two guitars and a very ornamental harp.". That's why the section is there. --JeremyLydellHaugen 07:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

  • ok, thanks for the reply. when i made the post, all that was said in the harps section is that he never made one, thats why i wanted it removed.Osmo250 01:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I added a foot-note on the single Strad harp. It is in the Naples music conservatory. I have a photo of it. Not quite sure where to load it. Jeffmatt 06:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another stradivarius

It appears a violin by Stradivari has been found in the hungarian city of Debrecen, which was left in a cellar by a jewish musician before he was taken to the WWII eastern front for slave labour, where he was killed. His grandson found it a month ago. Many are skeptic of this.

http://groups.google.co.cr/group/rec.music.makers.bowed-strings/browse_thread/thread/2724938b21d67b62/844169537ae4eed0?hl=es#844169537ae4eed0

213.178.103.162 12:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

That violin is said to have been made in 1727. It is claimed the great grandfather of the family, a violinist himself, became a POW in the WWI, where his russian captor gave him this violin from war loot to him, so he can amuse the prison camp guards. He was able to return with the violin to Hungary during the turmoil of russian bolshevik revolution and white-red civil war. It is said the violin was recently authenticated also by a certain Bela Szabo living in the Uzhgorod region of Ukraine, he is a elderly master violin maker who has already restored two confirmed Stradivariuses, one in 1963 and other in the late 1970's, so he should know the issue. 213.178.103.162 12:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


I remember seeing a Stradivarius violin named Elphinstone, but I do not see it on the list. Is this violin not a real Strad?

[edit] Red links

Is there a good reason to have so many red links to articles for individual instruments? Might we at least thin the ranks to those that are likely to be created soon (or are of particular importance and ought to be created)? —ptk✰fgs 12:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Known Missing/Destroyed Strads

Both the instruments of Thibaud and Neveu were destroyed in known air crashes; maybe there should be a section for strads confirmed lost forever. (Anon)

[edit] Lord Dunn-Raven?

Sure sounds like Lord Dunraven to me. (America's Cup trivia runs in my family.) --Wetman 09:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Antonio with no cirumflex

Antonio has no circumflex in Italian, thus it should be corrected.


[edit] One unsourced sentence not enough

I will make this as brief as possible: One sentence does not explain a disputed and deep scientific theory about how he may have made his violins. Take a look at the following websites, and tell me where somebody gets the power to write off this complex theory with one completely basic, weak, and unsupported claim: http://www.primidi.com/2003/12/06.html http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f03/web3/s1kim.html

[edit] List merge

Much of the content in the list in this article overlaps the list in Antonio Stradivari. Anybody want to attempt a section merge? If not, I can do it, but somebody might be planning on reworking the list anyway. — atchius (msg) 21:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I think a separate page "List of Stradivarius violins" is appropriate here, since there are so many. ALTON .ıl 01:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
The two lists are overwhelmingly similar, and maintenance of two separate lists is an unnecessary duplication of effort. I would support the creation of a separate page titled "List of Stradivarius intruments". On a separate note, the design of the table in Antonio_Stradivari#Stradivarius_instruments is more visually appealing. +A.0u 01:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the two lists should be merged onto this page (Stradivarius). The layout should be redone as a table for clarity (as on the Antonio Stradivari page). Columns should include 'Instrument' 'Year' 'Current Owner/Current Player' and 'Notes' All instruments that do not already have an individual entry (those with 'dead' links) should have the links removed. Great stress should be put on making sure there is verifiable citations where they exist, and an overall progress in getting outside citations for all instruments should be made. Instruments should be grouped by type and then sorted by year of manufacture first and name second. All references to 'The' can be removed (except with a titled as opposed to named Strad - 'The Lady Tennant' strad for example is probably better rendered as that full title. Any reference in the name to Stradivarius can be assumed and dropped. Any 'ex' at the beginning of the name (where it is the only name associated with the instrument) can be assumed and dropped (but left on where there are two or more names associated with it, as in Gibson ex Huberman). Biography of Antonio Stradivari should be largely confined to his bio page and the list and history of his instruments should belong on the Stradivarius page. Quotes in names should be eliminated. Internal wiki links on the year entry can be dropped. --JeremyLydellHaugen 23:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed "Airwolf" trivia

I removed the following trivia about the show "Airwolf":

The fictional character of Stringfellow Hawke serenaded eagles with his Stradivarius cello in the TV series Airwolf.

This sentence felt tacked on to its paragraph, and is not relevant or significant.

[edit] Found Stradivarius

My grandmother is in the possession of a Stradivarius not in the best of conditions, I checked and inside the violin is a Stradivarius label. Who, where, and how can I verify if the violin is authentic or a copy?

Sharain Jones shaclen@ca.rr.com


There is a modern instrument brand named 'Stradivarius'. Most likely, that is all it is, especially if it has a label on the inside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.91.70.187 (talk) 15:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One to add

1727 “Vesuvius” (or “Vesuvio”) ex Brosa, left by Remo Lauricella to the comune di Cremona and now in the collection “Gli Archi di Palazzo Comunale”.

A good bit more on the violin and its owners at http://www.arteliutaria.it/article_lauricella_page_1.shtml (and the three pages following; text in both English and Italian). Cozio.com page is [2]. I’d add it myself, of course, but I am not quite sure how the table is intended to work.

Incidentally, does anyone know what relation Cozio the collector was to Carlo Cozio (also count of Salabue) the chess player? —Ian Spackman 21:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goddard and Lauterbach violins

I am concerned that hoaxes may have been inserted in the article. I have no expertise on the subject, so I'm reluctant to take action myself. I am referring to:

  1. Edits [3] and [4]:this is highly likely to be a hoax.
  2. Edit [5]: This would be a very elaborate hoax. I have also found a page through google:[6] where ostensibly the same person John A. Thornton claims to be in possession of the violin and presents some history. See also:[7]

--Atavi 14:24, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The (2) edit seems plausible. There is evidence that such a violin was owned by Henryk Grohman.--Atavi 15:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

If you lack the experience or knowledge to question my edits, then please leave them alone! I'm not familiar with all this "computer language": - Anyone who can help me with instructions as to how I may post photographs of archival documents relating to the research I've conducted and other available information, I will be more than happy to provide it. This ongoing effort to locate and recover lost, stolen, or missing violins is NOT a hoax. If I were trying to perpetrate a hoax or insert dis-information in this archive, I most certainly would not sign my name to it.

```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnAThornton (talk • contribs) 09:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi JohnAThornton. As I've said on your talk, I'm going to seek help on your behalf.--Atavi (talk) 11:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I am now completely convinced that John A. Thornton has acted in good faith in adding the information about the Lauterbach Stradivarius. Per the above policy I should have assumed so. Citations and documents are still needed of course.--Atavi (talk) 11:44, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I am baffled by this forum topic.--Atavi (talk) 13:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
And this one. John Thornton is stradivari1719.--Atavi (talk) 14:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Andre Rieu

Andre Rieu claims to perform with a 1667 violin made by Antonio Stradivarius. This isn't reflected in this article.

http://www.andrerieu.com/site/index.php?id=music-violin

24.128.237.232 (talk) 22:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure the article absolutely needs to have this piece of information, especially since it's not complete, i.e. we only know the current owner and the date of manufacturing and not much else.--Atavi (talk) 12:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] San Lorenzo

Sorry, I don't know how to edit the table- the news reports that David Garrett damaged the San Lorenzo Strad have now changed - it was in fact a Guadagnini, so somebody should take that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.249.139 (talk) 14:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC) Also, the article links to the wrong David Garrett —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.249.139 (talk) 16:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Corrected. Thank you for pointing it out. Oda Mari (talk) 17:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Akiko Meyers and the Royal Spanish

This past weekend, Akiko Meyers played her strad here in San Diego and they both did quite well. From her website: In 2005 Anne was fortunate to acquire the "Royal Spanish" violin made in 1730 by the legendary Italian maker Antonio Stradivari. The "Royal Spanish" earned its name because it previously belonged to the King of Spain. Shouldn't it be on the list? 207.167.97.18 (talk) 22:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)mike207.167.97.18 (talk) 22:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CfD nomination of Category:Stradivarii

Category:Stradivarii has been nominated for renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –

The question at this point is whether it should be Category:Stradivari violins or Category:Stradivarius violins. Your input would be much appreciated. Cgingold (talk) 02:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need Information About My violin

I have my violin since the age of 10 years old. The violin has a lable inside that reads "antonius stradivarius cremonensis faciebat anno 1713, made in czechoslovakia." On the corner left side of the lable it has a loin with its pews on a shield, on the bottom lignalone, St 103-6418. I need information about my violin.

Thanks Mornstarjdh (talk) 06:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Another Strad

Recently attended a concert by the Perlman Music Program at Metropolitan Museum of Art. In the bio for Kristin Lee, currently studying at Juilliard, it states she "is currently playing on a 1697 Antonio Stradivarius through the generous support of the Juilliard School." There are no 1697's listed in the article.

--74.73.140.216 (talk) 03:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1723 Antonio Stradivari "Ex-Keisewetter"

[edit] Joseph Nagyvary

This section has been moved to Mr. Nagyvary's page, since it is about him and his experiments, which have been controversial within the musical/lutherie community and have been rebuked. Makers who are indeed getting much praise for their modern instruments are Samuel Zygmuntowicz, Stefan-Peter Greiner, Joseph Curtin and Gregg Alf to name a few. These makers are also involved in intensive scientific research of old instruments.


" Texas A&M University biochemist Joseph Nagyvary succeeded in making a violin somewhere near the quality of a Stradivari by leaving the wood to soak in brine.[1] Because of the lack of land in Venice, during that period imported wood was often stored in the seawater of the Venetian Lagoon, where a type of decomposition had a slight effect on the wood. Nagyvary managed to acquire wood shavings from a Stradivarius violin, and under a microscope he found the natural filter plates in the pores between the tracheids were gone. He also treated the wood with a preparation of borax in the manner of Stradivari, who used it to prevent infestation.

By late 2003, Nagyvary refined his techniques and produced a violin that was tested in a duel with the Leonardo da Vinci of 1725, an instrument not from Stradivari’s golden period.[2] Both violins were played in each of four selections of music by violinist Dalibor Karvay behind a screen to an audience of 600 attended by 160 trained musicians and 303 regular concert goers. This was the first public comparison of a Stradivari with a contemporary instrument before a large audience where the audience would cast ballots on the performance quality of each violin. The consensus was that Nagyvary's instrument surpassed the Stradivarius in each category by a small margin.
" [citation needed] Milliot (talk) 20:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edvin Marton

The Stradivarius on loan to Edvin Marton is billed as a "1697 Stradivarius" on loan from a "Swiss Bank". Since Marton and his Strad are involved in the winning song "Believe" in the 2008 Eurovision contest— a Strad makes everything so tasteful— shouldn't we identify the Strad in question— "it was actually played by Paganini over 300 years ago" says Marton here (hmm)— in the table of this article?--Wetman (talk) 05:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)