Talk:Stone circle

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[edit] Suppressed text

User:adamsan recently suppressed the following text: The suggestion that they may have evolved from earlier burial mounds, which often covered timber or stone mortuary houses, is undercut by the fact that of hundreds of Neolithic and Bronze Age circles that have been identified, none are centered on a burial. That, and the astronomical precision that many exhibit, suggest a religious/calendrical/astronomical context, the details of which are still obscure. For a recently-publicized example, see Goseck circle. Unfortunate press characterizations of Goseck as a "German Stonehenge" are currently eliciting nationalist competitive resentment, expressed as English-language skepticism over the authenticity of finds and dating (compare Nebra skydisk)

He accompanied the suppression with the following entry at my User site:

"Uhh Wetman, I ought to point out that your edit to Stone circle is in the wrong place. You see, stone circles are circles made from stones. The Gosek circle you talk about is an earth bank and ditch, as attested by your own SciAm extract. Only visible from the air you see, in a flat wheatfield, a 'shadowy ring'- no stones. I suggest you find a more relevant entry in which to insert yourself. Kind regards

' --User:adamsan 19:51, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Since this self-identified archaeologist and smart-arse is unaware that Stonehenge itself evolved from previous circles that were not marked with standing stones, what are we to do about this behavior? I hesitate to revert, but adamsan does reveal a nationalist agenda in "revisions" that suggest that stone circles are only genuine when they're in Britain.Wetman 21:20, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Wetman, Wetman, Wetman. Prehistoric stone circles of the type I am discussing are unique to the British Isles not just Britain, aside from the two atypical examples in Brittany I have already mentioned. Small circular arrangements of stones are known in isolated examples elsewhere but they are later. There are no stones at Gosek therefore it is not a stone circle. Circular earthwork != Megalithic monument. They may appear together at Sonehenge but they are different phases. Warmest regards --adamsan 09:15, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Response to comments inserted into source text:

  • Prehistoric '''stone circles''' are [[megalithic]] monuments found almost exclusively in the [[British Isles]], with two atypical examples known in [[Brittany]].<!--the atypical one should be identified by name. the reader can decide how they are atypical-->

The two sites are at Carnac and Er-Lannic. They are atypical because stone alignments and single megaliths were the order of the day in prehistoric Brittany, not circles.

  • Often orientated on sight lines for the rising or setting sun or moon at certain times of the year,<!-- a bit vague. is moon really intended?--> it seems likely that for their builders, [[fertility]]<!-- astronomy, calendar yes. fertility? is everything connected with fertility?-->

Yes it is a bit vague isn't it? Midwinter and midsummer and sunrises and sunsets are usually mentioned in connection with stone circles as well as the extremities of moonrise and moonset but it's rather verbose. Yes the moon was intended eg Callanish, as it too rises and sets and some archaeoastronomers will take any alignment they can get. Fertility would have been important to Neolithic farmers who were trying to master the best times of year to plant crops and manage animal husbandry.

  • The earliest circles were erected around five thousand years ago during the [[Neolithic]] period and may have evolved from earlier burial mounds which often covered timber or stone mortuary houses. <!--[[User:adamsan]] suppressed the following text here: "The suggestion that they may have evolved from earlier burial mounds, which often covered timber or stone mortuary houses, is undercut by the fact that of hundreds of Neolithic and Bronze Age circles that have been identified, none are centered on a burial. That, and the astronomical precision that many exhibit, suggest a religious/calendrical/astronomical context, the details of which are still obscure. For a recently-publicized example, see [[Goseck circle]]. Unfortunate press characterizations of Goseck as a "German Stonehenge" are currently eliciting nationalist competitive resentment, expressed as English-language skepticism over the authenticity of finds and dating (compare [[Nebra skydisk]])"-->

I deleted the that text for the following reasons:

    • Stone circles with contemporary or earlier burials in the middle include Stenness which has evidence of a wooden mortuary building within the ring, the cairn in the centre of Ballynoe, and Long Meg and her Daughters once had two cairns in its centre but they are now lost due to over-enthusiastic eighteenth century digging. Others have evidence of contemporary, but not central burial such as Swinside and Castlerigg.
    • Centrality was not an issue to these people as any plan of a Neolithic long barrow will show you.
    • In fact, I originally only meant that the circular design had evolved from earlier burial monuments not that individual sites had developed in this sequence. This is Aubrey Burl's interpretation, he sees the circular enclosure at Callis Wold round barrow as being an early move towards building a barrier between dead and living. He notes that calendrical orientations can only be conjecture whilst the presence of dead people is not.

I have covered the lack of astronomical precision elsewhere in the article but add the fact that many stone circles are in low-lying positions in valleys with outlying stones too low to make observations with. See Ballynoe again. I have also requested examples of this nationalistic fervour from the author of the Gosek circle article but to no avail.

  • Many had closely set stones, perhaps similar to the earth banks of [[henges]], others were made from unfounded boulders rather than standing stones.<!--a couple of typical examples are needed-->

Examples with close set stones include Swinside, Castlerigg and our old friend Ballynoe. Those with surface boulders include Machrie Moor with its attendant sandstone pillars and the two excavated at Beaghmore in County Tyrone.

  • Designs became more complex with double and triple ring designs appearing along with significant regional variation.<!--any to mention aside from Avebury?-->

Multi ring sites include Machrie Moor again and the Grey Wethers on Dartmoor. Regional variation is visible in the 12-stone circles in the Lake District and the 10-stone rings in NE Scotland.

  • By 1500 BCE stone circle construction had all but ceased. It is thought that changing weather patterns led people away from upland areas and that new religious thinking led to different ways of marking life and death.<!--too generic to be informative-->

Dating evidence from Ireland suggests they continued to be constructed during the Late Bronze Age (c. 1300-800BC)

I do not understand why this is considered generic and would be pleased to discuss further.

As a footnote, may I request that any clarification requests regarding articles to which I have contributed or which I have written, be raised on the relevant Discussion page rather than in the source text as I cannot always be guaranteed to see them. adamsan 21:12, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cromlech

Is it the same a stone circle than a cromlech? Or maybe cromlech are originally interred stone circles?

Although they aren't the same thing they may be connected, (it also depends on what you mean by cromlech). At least that's what Aubrey Burl thinks, ie that circular features at burial sites and then stone circles were part of an evolution of funerary monument building from the Neolithic into the Bronze Age eg Pitnacree. He is keen to illustrate that that these early structures and stone circles are the remains of similar attempts to enclose and 'neutralise' the dead. Bryn Celli Ddu however is a stone circle with a cromlech later built on top of it. Then you get things like the chamber tomb at the centre of Callanish and I'm not sure if anyone has produced a sequence for the activity there. Others prefer to see cromlechs and the rest as being 'houses for the dead' and to be based more on domestic structures. If you want more on Burl's ideas, and megaliths in general, his book are pretty widely available, although his ideas are by no means entirely accepted. adamsan 21:01, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] African stone circles

Should the Sine-Saloum stone circles and Wassu stone circles of Senegambia not be included in this article (I don't feel I known enough about the British circles to add info myself). Warofdreams 19:21, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Oooh African stone circles! They're new to me, looks like they need mentioning here though. If you know any more about them then add it in. I will edit out my previous assertion that they are unique to the British Isles. Hey Wetman, you were right all along! adamsan 19:28, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have found a list of worldwide stone circles here [1]. I am loath to incorporate it into the article at present mainly because it is a quote from a Von Danniken book and I would prefer some less controversial and more reliable source. Wheeler's work at Brahmagiri seems well-attested and Kete Ke'su can be Googled. Many seem to be odd examples rather than common monument types as they are in west Africa and the British Isles, The Polish ones at Odry look more like a conscious effort although they didn't look very circular in the image I found. adamsan 20:25, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Stone circles and fiction

Anyone constructed a list of stone circles appearing in stories, films and other works? (There must be more than Children of the Stones.) Could be extended to include hill figures carved into chalk and other such phenomena.


[edit] Merge with Stone circle (Iron Age)

Suggestion at Talk:Stone circle (Iron Age) NickW 14:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] List of Stone Circles

I have created a list of Stone circles, although I am hoping it will stay as a photographic list. My reason was that I wanted to complete links from List of English Heritage properties but the individual circles did not warrant their own article. I added a link on this page, but I do not like where I put it. Can anyone improve on that please. MortimerCat 02:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] France: Lacam de Peyrarines etc.

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=6334839

http://cromlech1.free.fr/gard/

http://www.sunfrance.com/patrimoine/index.php3?id_gmenu=4778&langue=en

Would these not fit? 165.146.167.62 18:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] some moonrises are more equal than others

These recumbent stones are almost always in the SW quadrant of the circle, and are aligned on the major moonrise.

What's a major moonrise? —Tamfang 22:43, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Types of stone circles? Expansion please

Drombeg stone circle describes that one as "A 'Cork-Kerry type' stone circle," without explanation. What types of stone circle are there? Why doesn't this article answer that question?

Concentric stone circle and Recumbent stone circles could probably be improved with whatever sources are used to answer this question. Distinguishment from henges, kerbs, and peristaliths may be appropriate. GRBerry 18:22, 17 August 2007 (UTC)