Talk:Steve Irwin

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  • Continue to add information about Steve.
  • Steve was inducted into the Logies Hall of Fame tonight, with Terri accepting the award on his behalf. Needs to be added to article.
  • Trim the Memorials section so the article deals more with his life than the reaction to his death.
  • Amend Irwin's Zoo to read on the Sunshine Coast - not Gold Coast as stated.
  • Note there is now an asteroid "Crikey" which was named in honor of Steve.
Good article Steve Irwin was a nominee for good article, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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[edit] Link

I got a link of Steve Irwin's memorial page. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dakman111 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is a link where you can read and add posts about Steven Irwin Posts about Steven Irwin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roomys (talk • contribs) 11:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Steve didn't pull the barb out

"The manager of “Crocodile Hunter” Steve Irwin has denounced as “absolute rubbish” reports that Irwin pulled a stingray’s barb out of his chest before lapsing into unconsciousness and dying. John Stainton told CNN that the reports, which quoted him, were based on “rumors.” Nevertheless, he acknowledged that the attack, which occurred in the water at Batt Reef, off the Australian coast north of Cairns, was caught on camera. Stainton further denied reports that he had watched the tape, saying he couldn’t bear to do so. The tape is currently in the hands of Australian authorities."

Initial reports misconstrued Stainton's improper pronoun usage to mean that Steve pulled it out, not the ray.

MikeSims 21:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, Alan Davidson removed the information w/o a reason (summary). [2] « FMF » 19:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greer comments

The lack of any reference to Germaine Greer's controversial article about Irwin, published both in the UK and in Australia shortly after his death lets this page down. This seems tantamount to censorship, IMHO. Snowbunni 10:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

As no-one has raised any objections, I have duly amended the criticism section to include Greer's articleSnowbunni 21:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Please check the archives, this has been thoroughly dealt with. 58.174.165.100 14:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I did indeed check the archives prior to making the changes and I take issue with your assertion that this matter was 'thouroughly dealt with'. Rather, it seems to have been more of a 'never the twain shall meet' scenario, with neither side coming to any agreement. As stated above, I believe the failure to include any reference to Greer's article, given the degree of publicity it attracted, is tantamount to censorship and undermines the basic principles which guide this site. Whilst I accept that Irwin's more enthusiastic admirer's have taken great exception to Greer and the sentiments she has expressed, an unwillingness to acknowledge them can not, and should not, erase them from the record, or indeed from this page. Snowbunni 19:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The previous comment was mine. I really do not want to repeat the copious amount of material dealing with this. Among other things she admits that she made up what she said. She says imagine Irwin said "this" and then rips into Irwin for saying the words she imagined. Since it was first put in, it has been absent by concensus much longer than its short appearances. On the censorship issue, this has been dealt with before as well. Of the many many comments made after Irwin's death, not all are put in this article. This is not censorship, it is encyclopedic editing. Alan Davidson 05:46, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

'This is not censorship, it is encyclopedic editing'? Well, keep telling yourself that, if you must. Sadly, it won't make it true.Snowbunni 09:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the footage

did they ever air the footage of the fatal stingray barb that killed steve irwin?

Only if you find reliable sources. Greg Jones II 15:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I dont think so, the Queensland police say they didn't release it and all copys were destroyed, the original was handed back to the Irwin's. Enlil Ninlil 06:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Repetition

Sir David Attenborough's comment He taught them how wonderful and exciting it was, he was a born communicator is repeated in Rise to Fame subsection and Environmentalism section. Please remove from either of the two place. Thanks Tarif from Bangladesh 12:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holiday

The Stever Irwin Day has been set in Australia.
It is set for 15 November 2007. - http://www.steveirwinday.com
I think this should be added.
Also, as you will see on the Steve Irwin Day website, on the 16th and 17th of November will be the "Steve Irwin Classic"

To celebrate the extraordinary life of The Crocodile hunter, Steve Irwin, two very special days in November have been nominated as the Steve Irwin Classic. Over 16 & 17 November there will be a stack of awesome activities which will feature many of the things Steve loved, especially surfing. Steve was passionate about his family, wildlife conservation, but it was also his love for surfing that helped fuel his passion for life. The Steve Irwin Classic will include the Crikey Cup; a golfing tournament, surfing competition, surfers paddle out, beach concert and a Gala dinner.


"There is presently a resolution under consideration in the Kentucky General Assembly to make February 22, 2007 Steve Irwin Day in honor of what would have been his 45th birthday."

"Presently"?

It would work if it were for a certain day of the year, but I don't see how they would legislate to make a day that passed months ago a holiday... Out of date information? Seems to me like they would of passed it, denied it or just ran out of time before a decision was made... 65.27.139.162 11:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV?

"Both he and his wife publicly stated that Irwin was in complete control of the situation, as he had dealt with crocodiles since he was a small child, and based on his lifetime of experience neither he nor his son were in any danger."

The above sentences are the opinions of the Irwins. They are not facts . Therefore they cannot be "publicly stated" - they are merely claimed or asserted as such by the Irwins. Indeed, whether or not Irwin was "in control of the situation" and whether his son was "in any danger" are exactly the issues that his critics have taken issue with. In other words, they are what is in dispute and causing this controversy. Therefore, the lines above, as written, are not NPOV.

Also, using a different camera angle, by itself, does not end the debate or turn Irwin's opinions into facts (a croc further away can still pose a danger and control of a situation is a complex thing).

Therefore, I will change the lines in about a week or so, unless a valid reason is presented not to. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.19.97.88 (talk) 06:33, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

All hinges on your definition of "state". Merriam-Webster's dictionary gives as definition 2 of state (transitive verb): "to express the particulars of especially in words; [to] report; broadly to express in words". By that definition, the sentence is perfectly reasonable as it is. (And entirely aside from that, I think the opinions of someone who had worked with crocodiles on a daily basis for several years and is familiar with the dangers posed by them are probably more worthy of trust than those of the average person who happens to watch the film of a single camera angle on the evening news. Opinions they might be, but why should they be untrustworthy?) Thefamouseccles 10:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The increased distance from the croc greatly reduces the danger. A crocodile is opportunist, waiting until pray is close enough that the crocodile can capture the prey in the first swift attack. They are not prone to chasing prey, particularly on land. This understanding of the nature of the animal is what keeps people who work with animals safe. Steve and Teri Irwin are both experts in the habits and behavior of crocodiles in greneral and have even greater understanding of the particular crocodiles that were uses in their show. These are the opinions of experts who were actually there; they should be kept as they are valid expert testimony. The opinions of anyone who is not an expert in the field should be questioned rather than that of world recognised experts. CLuxV1 17:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

If you are looking for an expert opinion on crocidiles you'd have to go a far bit to find someone willing to say Steve and Terri Irwin don't know what they are talking about. This is like saying Einstein didn't contribute to the atomic bomb because he only thought it would work. When one of the foremost experts in the field thinks something, you may want to take that opinion into account. Even so, as the people who committed the act, their rationale is noteworthy. Would you remove any mention of David Berkowitz' interviews because the dog didn't really speak to him, that's just his opinion? Padillah 03:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Change

Why was the change that I made to the names reverted? From what I have seen you usually have the person's full name at the beginning of the article, and what they are known as above the picture. Will Bradshaw 18:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Because his name isn't "Professor". See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Academic_titles. Besides that, Steve never worked as a professor, wasn't known as one and it only became known after his death that UQ was considering making him an adjunct Professor. This is dealt with further on in the article, but the title does not belong in the intro. Sarah 07:23, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with that, but if that is how names are done then I'll leave it, but you should note that someone else has removed 'Steve' from the name, which, acording to current policy, should be there, maybe the policy needs changing. I looked around and can't find any guide lines for the name in an infobox, and from what I have seen: Eddie Murphy, David Beckham, Stephen Hawking, Anne Robinson, their full name is not used in the infobox, so I will change Steve's. Will Bradshaw 07:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

From Wikipedia concerning Adjunct Prefessors : "adjuncts typically hold a Ph.D". Mr Irwin is the most famous graduate of Caloundra High School. As he is deceased, held no university qualifications, was never referred to by his postumous title during his lifetime and was never employed by the University of Queensland I believe the incorrect use of the title 'Professor' should be corrected in the entry (HaroldPlinth 14:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] South Park Reference

Why was this removed? It seems pretty encyclopedic to note that South park featured him on an episode parodying his death. Is it just me? Brett 05:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

This has been dealt with in the archives. Briefly, Irwin has been parodied and satirised on countless television programs since his death. They all cannot be mentioned. Alan Davidson 13:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Countless? Isn't that Weasel Words? To discount your 'briefly', do you care to name your references to back up you reason for exclusion? 21:30, 7 October 2007 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.112.185 (talk)

[edit] Criticism NPOV?

Why is the criticism section tagged as NPOV? It says see the talk page but nothing here explains it either. Padillah 19:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and I'm removing the tag. If someone wants to put it back, please explain why here. BambinoPrime 21:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Didn't He Live, Too?

About half of this article deals with Irwin's death and the reaction to it. Shouldn't the article focus more on his life (as with the majority of other articles on dead people on wikipedia) than his death, which, after all, was substantially shorter than his life? Just a suggestion. 204.38.47.171 16:20, 17 October 2007 (UTC)random_person416

Yes. In particular, the Memorials section is extremely gratuitous. Whenever a beloved person dies, the memorial section gets out of control. Perhaps it is time to trim down. Starting a new section below...

[edit] Trimming and/or deleting Memorials section

The Memorials section is extremely gratuitous, and as random_person416 has pointed out, it consumes as much of the article as Irwin's life (!). I think it is time to trim, but I will wait for consensus before blanking hundreds of words of text.

Objections? Thoughts? Alternative suggestions? Legal threats and/or personal attacks? --Jaysweet 16:29, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I just counted the article (with Word's lovely Word Count feature, for the nitpickers; I did NOT sit here and count every word by hand!!!) and out of 5,661 words, 2,463 words are about his death. That's about 44% of the article. Maybe it could be trimmed to just the facts of his death and a short section on memorials and such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.38.47.171 (talk) 16:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ...Strange Things

"...and has grossed $33 million..." Now, this may not seem like an odd thing for someone to put in the article (it's under the Films section), but why did someone feel the need to link the dollar sign of all things to the USD page?! I think this is a case of over-linking, which tends to happen when newcomers discover the magic [[ ]] symbol. I'd remove it, but I'm still considered a "newly registered member". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.38.47.171 (talk • contribs)

Actually, that should be linked, to indicate which dollar is the dollar in question. (Assuming it's a first reference, which it probably is; subsequent references should not be linked.) This is especially true since Irwin was Australian, so the "logical" guess would be the Australian dollar. —C.Fred (talk) 16:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I get it now. It just kind of confused me for a while because I always forget that other countries than the US use the "$" symbol for their money. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.38.47.171 (talk) 11:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What contribution to research and conservation?

Despite the University of Queensland awarding Irwin an adjunct professorship for his "remarkable contribution to research and conservation", the introduction notes his role as a television personality and zoo owner as more significant. Then the article goes into his media work, tourism promotion and environmental advocation. It briefly mention that he co-discovered a single species of turtle, and founded a number of projects. None of these activities are all that remarkable.

So either the article is lacking most of Irwin's "remarkable contributions to research and conservation" or as many in the Australian conservation movement believe his role was much less significant than the spin and hype would lead one to believe. - Shiftchange 04:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems your question is answered by your first line. Alan Davidson 08:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


"None of these activities are all that remarkable."- I beg to differ. Promoting conservation through television was more effective in bringing awareness and affection for the animals he starred in his shows than most scientists can do in a lifetime of diligent scholarly work. Steve's personality reached out to the viewers and made a lasting impression on them, and for the animals he advocated. That's what stood Steve out, and that's where his contribution to conservation was most felt.--Nobraindisease (talk) 05:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


Sorry, but that's just laughable. All he did on TV was put himself and others in a variety of highly dangerous situations so that the viewers could watch. I seriously doubt his sensationalistic BS had any really significant effect on conservation. Oh, sure, they may have said stuff, but how many more people put in the actual time and/or money necessary to really contribute to conservation as a result? The scientists whose contributions you dismiss so quickly are the ones slaving away in tropical jungles to count salamanders to justify protecting additional habitat, not showboating around on TV like a jackass who doesn't even know what a snake-hook is. Mokele (talk) 03:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Whatever your personal view, the first line for this section sums it up. The university considers what he did as ... "remarkable contribution to research and conservation". Alan Davidson (talk) 06:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
The university is kissing ass in hopes of attracting more donations from alumni. As Shiftchange pointed out, he's not really done anything to warrant such a quote, and since its absence doesn't detract from the article, I say we leave it at that. Mokele (talk) 04:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
But this is an encyclopedia, we state the fact of the recognition by the University not the opionion of Shiftchange! 121.208.35.55 (talk) 06:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
And we do state that the university recognized him? There's no reason to waste effort on a quote of dubious accuracy. Mokele (talk) 01:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
To answer your question - yes. 121.208.35.170 (talk) 14:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Irwin Memoral Service

22:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC) The following statement is inorrect. "In a final tribute, Australia Zoo staff spelled out Irwin's catchphrase "Crikey" in yellow flowers as Irwin's truck was driven from the "Crocoseum" for the last time to end the service. Flags on the Sydney Harbour Bridge flew at half mast on the day of the memorial service."

In fact it was the champion Australian barbershop chorus "The Blenders" dressed as zoo staff who laid out the wreaths. The Blenders also provided the backing vocals to John Williamson and Daniel McGhan when they performed their tribute songs. There is more informaiton available on The Blenders web site www.theblenders.com.au - and contact details are also there 22:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Its Doctor Steve Irwin

Right before he was died the professor he had been researching with had sent him papers and a certificate of doctorate.

i don't really know much about specifics, like who gave it to him, i just know the papers were on his desk and he never got to see them.

so the page needs to say Doctor Steve Robert Irwin.

any specific info needs to be listed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smurfmanser (talk • contribs) 03:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there any actual source for this, or mere heresay? Mokele (talk) 19:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I would think if this were valid, there would be a lot of sources. The school awarding the doctorate would have likely done some kind of big presentation and remembrance at the next commencement. Most schools make a big deal of giving honorary doctorates; I would think the awarding of an actual doctorate would have gotten even more attention. —C.Fred (talk) 19:40, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ramming boats

Looks like we have the beginning of a possible edit war, here: [3] [4] [5] [6]. This content does not appear to be referenced at this time, has been tagged as unreferenced for at least a week (since January), and I'm not entirely clear on why it should be mentioned in an article about Steve Irwin. We have an article on the Sea Shephard group. We have an article on the MV Steve Irwin (if the ship itself was directly involved, that might be a stronger case for relevance). Was Irwin directly involved in these activities, or are we planning on making it regular practice to make in-line mention of any and all possible controversies of any and all groups people have associated with? If kept, should definitely be referenced, regardless. – Luna Santin (talk) 12:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The group itself have stated their record of sinking 10 ships [7], this is already on the Shepherd article. Otherwise, what are the objections? Irwin's last intended mission was to join shepherd on their atlantic mission, the ship is named after him because of that, Irwin's main interest was saving endgangered species, sinking ships damages the marine environment. All of those statements are completely factual, and relevant to an article on Irwin. I am not intending to paint Irwin in any kind of bad light, but this conflicting position is definitely worthy of mention in an NPOV article about Steve. MickMacNee (talk) 12:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... I'm not totally happy with it, but I see a little more of where you're coming from. Checked the SS article, there is some mention (and at least cursory sourcing) over there. Probably redundant to point that out, right now, but I got edit conflicted, so. :p It just seems like an odd mention, to me, like it's begging a point by comparison or juxtaposition (intended or not). Or maybe it just seems more relevant on the other article. I see now that this is in the Controversies section, which may change matters slightly. Just brainstorming a bit, are there any other phrasings which might also work? Anything from just describing the SS group as "controversial" to mentioning a "history of sometimes-violent confrontations" or anything of that nature, say? – Luna Santin (talk) 12:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Not to butt in but that {{fact}} tag looks like it is challenging the statement that sinking a ship can cause damage to marine environments. Is that the fact that is being challenged? Padillah (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I suppose that highlights the bit that makes me uncomfortable: we're making a leap from describing Irwin's association, to then describing controversial actions he may or may not have endorsed, to then describing environmental impact of those actions he may or may not have been happy about. I keep thinking back to that "synthesis of data" bit in WP:NOR, which I guess means this strikes me as a bit much daisy chain. After some more reflection, some sort of mention of the group's activities is probably appropriate, but what we have now seems at least slightly excessive to me. – Luna Santin (talk) 13:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Is this something approaching a reasonable compromise? I used two sources, one that MickMacNee provided, another that's being used on the SS article itself. Haven't used the pretty {{cite web}} templates, just yet, pending whatever anybody has to say or do about the edit. Thoughts? – Luna Santin (talk) 09:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that cuts it really, the whole point is the Group's actions of sinking vessels which, while saving whales, does damage marine environments. I agree it can't be stated either way what Irwin thought of that without further quotes (this could be added for clarification), but the facts as put there are relevant in an Irwin article considering his general conservation ethos and his intention to join the vessel. FYI, the USS Arizona is still leaking oil into Pearl Harbour, 67 years after it was sunk. MickMacNee (talk) 12:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... a little better, now? – Luna Santin (talk) 22:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Not realy, the new statement and two refs provided only refer to the controversial nature of the group, this isn't realy relevant to Irwin per se, and is covered elsewhere on wiki. The specific action is sinking ships. I'm re-inserting the sinking statement, and moving the controversial ref to within an existing statemetn, I don't think this is in dispute. I will leave out reference of environmental consequences until anyone finds references or expresses for it support here. MickMacNee (talk) 14:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
No objection from me, at this point. :) – Luna Santin (talk) 02:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Error - Death anniversary section

There is a location error found under Death Anniversary:


Quoted text: 'On September 4, 2007, Australian fans gathered at the Irwin family zoo on the Gold Coast, Queensland ...'


Australia Zoo is not on the Gold Coast - it is on the Sunshine Coast.

Please edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aroz867 (talk • contribs) 20:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Has anyone noticed

Has anyone noticed that he died exactly a year after what Robert Farquharson did? Anyone out there think this is unusual, a coincidence, etc.? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 23:04, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it's entirely too coincidental to mention. Further, unless a reputable media source has commented on it, it's original research. —C.Fred (talk) 23:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More information

I want more information on the Death paragraph. 99.244.73.89 (talk) 21:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)