Talk:Steelpan

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Contents

[edit] Whats with the tuner section?

Well, it just doesn't sound encyclopedic, rather like something you'd find on a dedication or fan homepage.

I agree absolutely, and suggest that this list be removed from this article, perhaps giving mention only to the "pioneer" masters. Otherwise a separate page can be created for it, much like the "list of steelbands" one. Giving a list that doesn't even say it is a possibly incomplete — and possibly biased, doesn't seem in good form. Justin Biggs 22:00, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Only one invented in the 20th Century?

This article makes the claim that the Steelpan is the only non acuostic percussion instrument invented in the 20th century, but I can name at least 10 other percussion instruments invented in that century that are not steelpans. How about the Vibraphone? Or Rototoms (Or is this just considered a type of Tom Tom) ? Or just take a look at http://www.oddmusic.com/ to find hundreds of recently invented instruments, including percussion. Regardless, I think it's unlikley that Steepans were the only acoustic percussion instrument to be made in the 20th century. This should be removed or changed. Mabey say "One of the few major non electric/acoustic percussion instruments to be invented in the 20th Century." 28 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Yeah. Musical instrument invention really came into its own in the 20th century. It's not even "one of the few". I made the change. Tom Duff 22:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steelpan

I have never in my entire life heard of this intstrument being referred to as a "Steelpan;" in fact if you look at dictionary.com under "Steel Pan" (two words, not one) it simply says "A steel drum" 1 - and then there is a proper definition under "steel drum" 2 - Unless someone can provide a reference of proof as to this more commonly or properly being called a "steelpan" or "steel pan," I STRONGLY suggest a reverstion to the original article title, because I don't think this is correct. Pacian 07:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

" Please see the reviewed technical definition as to why the instrument is called Steelpan "

It is the correct name/usage. If we invented it, we can name it, not so? From Pan Trinbago website:

Welcome to the Official Site of Pantrinbago, the World Governing Body for Steelpan.

Guettarda 13:06, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm familiar with "steelpan" and "steel pan" throughout the Caribbean, however I've heard "steel drum" in the (mainland) U.S. I think "steelpan" is the appropriate article title. For other references, see http://steelpan.com/docs/about.html and http://www.seetobago.com/trinidad/pan/2000/event01.htm#quick50.
--Gruepig 18:36, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I stand corrected, which is why I asked :) I pride myself on being non-U.S.-centric and I feel like a hypocrite for not thinking globally on this Pacian 19:06, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've played in small steel bands in the UK for most of my life and almost everyone I've known refers to them as steel pans.

From my experience, I only ever seen one diatonically tuned pan (and that was a toy minipan). Should this sentence not possible be "usually tuned chromatically but sometimes diatonically"? I feel this is a rather important difference, as this fact allows the pan to be taken seriously as a musical instrument, rather than being regarded as some kind of "folk" instrument. --Justin Biggs 2005-07-01 10:59:00 (UTC)

Whoever edited the article to state most steelpans are tuned diatonically (adding in the edit summary that "to be honest I have never heard of or seen a chromatically tuned steelpan") is simply wrong. He or she obviously does not know a lot about steelpan :-) I have re-edited the page to read (correctly) that most steelpans are tuned chromatically, but cheap novelty or toy steel drums are tuned diatonically. I agree, Justin, that it is hard to take seriously any instrument that does not produce the full chromatic scale, and the steelpan most certainly does!
--Karen

[edit] Steelpan/drum History & Development

I just found this history that's not included: http://www.toucans.net/Gallery/aboutPan.html 67.176.255.6 (talk) 22:11, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I live in Fairmont, West Virginia, and attended both Fairmont State and West Virginia University. While I was at W.V.U., I had 2 very close friends that studied percussion, and the steelpan/drum. They studied at the College of Creative Arts @ West Virginia University, with a gentleman by the name of Ellie Mannette. Mr. Mannette is a faculty member at W.V.U. (although I saw a report on a local TV station on 01/27/2006 that said he would be retiring soon; there was no timeframe nor were there any other specifics mentioned), and you can read about him at his listing in the Faculty pages for those in the College of Creative Arts here:

http://www.wvu.edu/~music/faculty/emannette.html

He also has himself a site online. You can see his site by visiting here:

http://www.mannettesteeldrums.com

My question is, why is Mr. Mannette not mentioned on the (history of) the Steelpan/drum page? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelpan ) From what I understand, he has been very, very instrumental in the development of the modern Steelpan/drum, during the last 60+ years or so. It seems to me that his name would appear somewhere in this article. I would write it myself, but I do not know as much as others in the Steelpan/drum community about him do. I only know what I have mentioned, that he has been an important figure in the Steelpan/drum community, since a very young age. I also know that he lives in Morgantown, West Virginia, and is on the Faculty for the College of Creative Arts.

I do remember hearing from a local report on TV that I mentioned earlier that before he retires, he wants to have a "Grand Finale Steel Symphony". There is mention on his site of "Ellie Mannette's Festival of Steel", to be held July 9-16, 2006. I am not sure if this is the "Grand Finale" that was mentioned on the broadcast I heard last week, or not. You can read about and download an application for the 2006 Festival from:

http://www.mannettesteeldrums.com/MSDworkshop.htm

In advance, thank you to anyone that can help with my question(s) about Mr. Ellie Mannette. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DigitalGuy (talk • contribs) January 30, 2005

Mannette was very influential. There is no reason not to include material here - just make sure that the material you add is (a) balanced (the article is very thin right now), (b) verifiable (please cite your sources - it'd be a good start) and (c) not a copyright violation (is may be obvious, but I figured I should add it just to be on the safe side). Guettarda 20:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

If I may add that the only instrumet that was invented in this century was originally name "steelpan". It is the other countries the US and Internationally wants to claim it the "steeldrum". What is a steeldrum? the material use make the steelpan. Hope everyone get it.

Is it really the only instrument invented in the 20th century? See Blue Man Group. --Emurphy42 04:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Depends on how you define it. Anyway, "it is described as...", which it is. Guettarda 05:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the claim that it is the only new instrument of the 20th Century is obviously somewhat relative. It needs to be seen in the context of the socipolitical project of steelpan to recognise the creativity and inspiration of black ghetto musicianship. Indeed I feel that this this theme could be emphasised more. It is a central aspect of Trinidadian experience of the instrument.--campdog 07:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Just a small note, shouldn't it be 44 gallon drums rather than 55?--campdog 06:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with campdog that it should be 44 gallon, although surely whatever they say in Trinidad would be best... wikipedia automatically redirects 55 gallon drums to 44 gallon too. (So I'm changing it.) --Justin Biggs 22:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The 55 vs 44 gallon thing depends on whether you are using an American Gallon or an English Gallon....go figure.... The volume is 210 litres... :)



Does the shape of the crum come from the cruved base found on older drums? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.201.136.122 (talk) 22:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


Hydrosteel the article says:"Two Americans, George Whitmyre and Harvey J. Price, have secured a United States patent for "the process of formation of a Caribbean steelpan using a hydroforming press". This patent is being challenged by the Trinidad and Tobago Legal Affairs Ministry, since many Trinbagonian drum makers have used similar methods for years.[5] Their pan making company, Hydroforming, has gone out of business." That many Trinbagonian panmakers have used the methods of hydroforming is not true. The patented process adressed exactly this (and nothing else) hydroforming technique. In the late 79ties, CARIRI did a research project together with the swedish Saab company, where it was (sucessfully) tried to deep-draw a rawform for Sopranopans. The project was not taken any further, since trinidadian tuners did not seem to like working on the new form. Hydroforming (pressing using waterpower) has not been done by anybody else. I suggest, that above sentence is deleted, since it does not contain any valuable information. --Panmaker (talk) 11:48, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chromatic/ Diatonic

As a matter of fact the early steelpans were not chromatic at all but focussed on modes and associated chords. Pan was initially a rythm instrument which became a tonal instrument. The old pan players all talk about playing early pans with single scales or bas pans with four tonic notes (eg C,G,F,D) which apllied to just a few keys. Modern chromatic pans are really a result of a long process of evolution and a search for legitimacy with respect to western musical principles.--campdog 05:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's true, but the statement is defining modern steelpans, not historic ones. Frankly, it's possible to create a steelpan in any tuning configuration, just as it would be possible to create, say, a vibraphone with any tuning. But the modern standard is chromatic. Information on the evolution towards that standard would belong in the history section.

[edit] Construction

This section suggests that the pan is tempered before the notes are marked out, this is incorrect. The notes are marked and hammered out and then pan is given a rough tuning. The pan is then tempered, allowed to cool, and given a final tuning. The tempering changes the metallurgical structure of the mild steel of the drum and literally reforms the drum into the instrument.--campdog 06:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

This sections content is inadequate. I suggest to split the section in two parts, one being pan construction, and the second being pan tuning. I suggest a more technical approach of the explanation of Steelpan building, stepping away from the "take an oil drum and sink it down" philosophy. Unless people get involved in this discussion, I will start to edit the section "construction". --Panmaker (talk) 10:54, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The lists in this article...

Firstly, the list of pan types: Is there any special reason that it says there are 11 instrument types (especially since fourteen are listed)? I propose it gets changed to "a variety of types"... Furthermore, is this list really complete or constructed properly? For instance, why not include the different types of basses as the same instrument type, then giving a comment that their are a variety of configuration ranging across 5 to 12 drums? Similarly, there are such things as single seconds, or single and double guitars, which haven't been mentioned. (The only reason I do not make these changes is that I would rather have someone with greater knowledge do it.)

Secondly, the list of steelbands: there is another page called "list of steelbands", or something similar. That would be a better place for the lists, and I propose the list in this article is removed.

And the other lists... are they all necessary for an encyclopaedia article? I think maybe this page is getting big enough to be split up a bit. —Justin Biggs 22:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I think, too, that the extensive lists in this article should be removed. They seem to get more names added every now and then by anonymous editors with no sources stated. –mysid☎ 17:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Master pan tuners needs supporting citations; steelbands needs to go (there's a List of steelbands); Famous pannists, jazz artist, composers and arrangers needs to go or be converted to a cited list; Upcoming pannists, arrangers and composers has to go - it's unverifiable. Guettarda 23:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Almost featured.

Hey people, this article looks like it is a few citations (maybe in origins section for example) and other clean-ups from being featured on Wikipedia. Keep up the good work ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 15:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Short documentary film

PBS in the USA used to run a short film showing how a steelpan was made from a discarded 55 gallon drum. It started out with some kids finding the drum then rolling it to a shop where it was cut and formed into the instrument.

They're also very popular in the Philippines, at least they were in the late 1970's. I went there in 1978 and almost everywhere I went in Manilla I could hear or see someone playing one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 06:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)