Talk:Starsiege: Tribes

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[edit] Game Firsts

I removed the reference to Tribes being the first FPS with heat seeking missiles, as Rise of the Triad had as much three years earlier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cthuljew (talk • contribs) 11:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requirements

It seems that the requirements to play would make a noteworthy addition to this article, but I can't include this myself as I don't own any of the Tribes games. MafiaCapo 03:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

As this is a fairly old game now, perhaps the silence on the topic of system requirements should be taken as a default for games that, on a contemporary system, would not represent any system spec challenges.Dxco 05:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vehicles

"They normally are not the focus of the game (unlike the sequel), but just a convenient feature"

Perhaps we should clarify how vehicles worked out in the game. Early in the games history, vehicles were used quite frequently, and were considered by players to be a common element of the game. However, over time (and particularyl due to increased skill in skiing), vehicles became less and less commonly used; skiing was faster. I believe in the end, only the scout would be used much, by CTF players going for a scout cap (however, I have this vague memory that this was patched, so that you had to get out of the scout to get the enemy flag).Dxco 01:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Piracy

I wonder if we should add mention of the sad fact that Starsieg: Tribes was very much a heavily pirated game. This can, of course, be said about most games, but it was noteworthy for Tribes: the game did not sell very well, but was played by a very large number of people (that is, many people pirated it).

Some of the developers had noted with some bitterness this issue, and took the lesson with them as they began Tribes 2, with its Valve-like online authentication system. Tribes, at the time, became a bit of a by-word for easy to pirate / heavily pirated games (you could literally right click on your install directory, and select "icq this folder to X" if you had icq installed, for example - zero copy protection).

A developer commented once that he checked, not long after the games release, on the number of people showing as being online playing it, and noted that the number was, I believe, something like 3 times the number of copies sold at that point.

Dxco 01:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


I think there's merit in adding this information, both to this entry as well as the entry for Tribes 2. It's certainly valid information, and there's no cat to be let out of the bag, so to speak, since the game has been officially released for free. I'm not sure where to add it in though.

Yukichigai 09:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


Added a piece near the end. I'm unfamiliar with the Tribes 2 situation so haven't touched that entry.

-- Anon

Well done addition. Thanks! I think this really helps flesh out more of the context of the game above and beyond the game itself. Dxco 04:52, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous/Popular Clans?

Would it be worthy to note some of the most famous and well known clans of the day?

Imperial Elite (all time greatest unbeatable dominant clan)
South Side Stoners
5150
E5
Others?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.160.177.211 (talk • contribs)

Hm. I'm not sure; how much could we write about them, really? Maybe give them a small subsection/list under external links, if anything. Always good to see people interested in adding useful information, though. From what I remember, I can't think of any edits to make to that list. Good lord, I loved the 5150 servers. Luna Santin 23:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I would be a fan of this, but then I was a huge fan of the game: I don't know if I can subtract out my feelings for it and honestly answer if it is deserving of such an addition. If users feel it fitting, perhaps a kind of "culture of the game" section, or separate page, could be added - describing the notable groups and people who made up the community, and perhaps describes the arc of the games popularity and what went on with it. It's really tough to say if this kind of thing is just self-indulgent nostalgia for those of us who enjoyed the game in its time, but perhaps there is a seed there that would be appropriate. Dxco 04:54, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Fallen| really needs to be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.212.177.51 (talk) 00:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I feel like I have been part of creating a monster. The clans list is now totally over the top. From here on out, I think we should focus solely on an actual section of the article that describes clans in Tribes only, and completely avoid a bloating list of clans. If you create a list, visitors will just endlessly add to it, until it takes over the page. With this in mind, I will soon delete the clan list section. I encourage fellow contributor to get cracking on a short, to the point, brief paragraph that describes the overview history of clans in Tribes to replace what I will soon delete.Dxco 05:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
As a quick update, I'll be implementing the above soon. Contributors, please do start thinking about an article section devoted to the clan aspect of tribes to replace the section that I am going to delete. Dxco 03:34, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tribes World Championship

Probaley worth mentioning that during the reign of Tribes 1 there was tourney orgnaised of about 10 countries who include; Australia, New Zealand, Isarel, Germany, Celtic, Finland, Canada and USA had two teams.Had fond memories playing for the Australian team. Generally a pretty good tourney, but PINGS were a definate factor in some countries playing each other.

CLANS - Imperial Elite etc were the best US + Canadian clans, but regions had their best clans as well Australia/New Zealand and Europe (including UK).

58.167.130.217 13:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)Fez AKA Borgy


I agree that a section about Tribes World Championships would be great! But I can only remember that it was organized during spring 2000, and that the winner was US West, second Finland and third US East. Wonder if anyone has more info (full results etc).

25.11.2007, Sonique

[edit] Huds and Scripts

NOTE: I'm resurrecting this quickly-reverted section because I think there's something that should be cleared up. -- Yukichigai

This section states that 'happymod' is a cheat. AFAIK it's a modified Tribes executable that works exactly the same as a Ski Script. Also, AKAIK there has never been a client-side script that could be used for cheating. Perhaps this section should be expanded/rewritten. --Netdriod9

Yes, technically happymod is an additional executable that modifies how the Tribes executable runs, rather than a script or HUD. However, there are numerous client-side scripts which enable cheating. Hell, I've written a few. (To test my own mod against cheating because I couldn't find the original cheatscripts, calm down) I'm not talking about scripts which are on the razor's edge of cheating, but of those which blatantly exploit flaws in gamescript, base or modded. But, yeah, the section could use to be reworded. Also, the Ski Script is not an executable "hack" like happymod. (Though an executable version -- happyjump -- does exist) Ski Scripts are called that for a reason: they're scripts. The most common is one packaged with Presto Pack. So... here endeth the lesson. -- Y|yukichigai 11:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Storyline

While I applaud the writer's effort, I'm not sure that it is necessary to include such a large section on the game's story line. In terms of the games notability, presence, and impact, the story line for this online-only game really had no significance. I think I could be very safe saying that almost no player (and I mean that relative to the user base) had any awareness of, or interest in, the backround story Dynamix came up with for the game. I don't wish to diminish the author's efforts, but this could effectively be like including a section on a backround story to CounterStrike. The topic is exceedingly tangential to what the game represented, and might mislead readers unfamiliar with Tribes - making them interpret the topic's presence as an indication that the story of the Starsiege fictional universe was a notable element to the game and it's community. Dxco 05:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm really itching to do what would amount to a serious gutting of the storyline section. Comments and input welcome. Dxco 16:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Ok, the links section has now officially become completely bloated. I'd like to see it reduced down to 5 or 6 salient, key links, and leave it at that.Dxco 15:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Instead of bitching about it, I cleaned it up :P Good lord, I think at least half of the links didn't even work. I heavily trimmed the links down to a core group, letting interested readers find the game, basic info, and a few sites that contain a wealth of links, files and info (much of which was poorly duplicated in the previous link list).Dxco 16:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tribes Xtreme

Is it worth noting the canceled Tribes Xtreme expansion at all in this article? It's pretty hard to find information on it now but it was a fairly large deal to the community at the time. I might consider making a small section on it if I find enough information. Astrum 22:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mem.dll

How about adding some info on Andrew's mem.dll release, the fact that Tribes looks for an external dll to do its memory allocation. This can be expanded with adding mention of the hacked mem.dll that TROC released, and the effect it had on LastHope servers. Also the lasthope bypass of NoFix. Then lastly, the new mem.dll release by MasterShin that allows ADO connections. What do you think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.138.48.16 (talk) 13:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC). Andrew has released a lib of a small mem.dll, so people can build their own Tribes extensions.

[edit] Happymod / cheats

I think that there should be some happymod info placed down, as this was a major cheat that a lot of players used - leading to the introduction of LastHope.

[edit] IRC channel

The game has a built-in irc client - what network / channel does it connect to? The article should mention that channel and have an IRC link to it because that is useful —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.173.126.125 (talk) 18:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

It's irc.dynamix.com:6667, the the game automatically connects to channel #tribes I believe, but I don't think it's used much anymore. The network is frequently used by clans, mod makers and communities, and that like.

[edit] Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

--Stwalkerbot 16:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Tribes Community

It was the community that was born from this game that really deserves some recognition. Never before had the numbers of people collected online for the singular purpose of gaming before this game came along. Even though IRC existed well before this games release many people were introduced to internet relay chat because of this game. I knew of people who actually met through this game and got married. I had people cross international borders to visit me that were players in my tribe. Before there was a Xbox, Play station 2, or any other online gaming that actually drew a crowd there was Tribes. Tribes is not a foot note in the history of First Person Shooters, or an example of a failed entertainment enterprise, it was the first game to have a large online community of support using multiple resources like dedicated servers for the game, IRC, VoIP servers, and Perl scripted BBS that allowed collabration on team building, graphic arts, and the such. I know for a fact that the phenomenon of "All your Base are Belong to Us" came from the tribes community, from a particular player with deep Unix roots. Hell the guy holding the cigarette pack in the video is me. [[User:[BRO]Tigger|[BRO]Tigger]]

Yes, but it wasnt unique in that regard, nor the first. Earlier FPS games as well had rockin active online communities. So, while its safe to note the vibrant community that sprang up around Tribes, we wouldn't be justified in going into too much depth about it, due to this aspect of the game not being terribly unique, broadly speaking. Dxco 23:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
The All Your Base Are Belong To Us meme wasn't started by your Tribes friend.. Oddity- (talk) 08:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Great Mod Listbloat Cleanup

I am soon going to do a massive cleanup of the inexcusably uberbloated mod list. This has gotten completely out of hand. I am going to reduce it to a list of the top 5 most representative, notable, and popular mods. Feel free to comment here on answer the following question: For a reader who is not terribly familiar with Tribes, what would be a Mod that would give them a representative taste of the large mod presence Tribes experienced? Note that the question is not "please list every mod ever made." Instead, we just want a few representative examples of popular mods, to clue in the interested reader as to what this aspect of Tribes was like. Dxco 04:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

RPG, as it probably made more alterations to the game than any other widely known mod. Shifter and/or Renegades also, as they were both very prominent(I'd also include a mention of their many versions). Football and Paintball mods were both very popular, and the former changed gameplay almost entirely. I'd also mention one or two which did not so drastically alter the game, like Base++ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hazor (talk • contribs) 01:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I realize now that a list is a bad idea. We need a short paragraph/section that describes the mod presence in tribes. That is, we want an actual written article, and not a list. Lists inviite people to add to them endlessly, and lists dont inform the user. We need a brief paragraph or two that sketches out the Mod aspect of tribes in a way that the unfamiliar reader can get a quick sense of this aspect of Tribes. So, get crackin on that front, to replace the list that I am going to delete. Dxco 05:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that (as the author of the mods) neither DeltaAirForce and Dune were/are popular. I'd argue that they changed the game significantly, but no more so than other mods even if it was in a completely different direction. They definately shouldn't be on a popularity contest list. For an article aspect, I also wouldn't note two or more mods like "shifter" and "renegades" since it's redundant. They both took mods in the same direction more or less; one just unfortunately had the guts to take it further. -J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.98.10 (talk) 03:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed another issue with those two entries (oddly enough that both contain falicious information). The first mod, Delta Force, was not created by me. I created Delta Air Force, which was built off of the much more basic Delta Force, introduced a year or two earlier. The second entry mentions that the sandworms ate you when you wandered off the map. The sandworms actually hunt down players to eat. Anyone on open sand in a map is a target whether they're in bounds or not. After I implemented this, another short lived individual on the scene decided to introduce some watered down varient into his mod which only ate you if you went out of bounds. This is probably what the original author was thinking of when that note was made. -J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.54.57.187 (talk) 19:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Sshot0028.png

Image:Sshot0028.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed extra metaserver link

I've removed the second ("TooCrooked's") masterserver link. It's been on the page for a little while, but I've realized now that it is fairly non-notable (a quick check shows that it gets less than ten google hits, compared to the 110+ of the "tribesmasterserver.com" metaserver), and only shows a subset of the servers listed in the "tribesmasterserver.com" masterserver (a check showed that "TooCrooked's" listed 63 servers compared to "tribesmasterserver.com"'s 120, and it appeared that all of the 63 were contained in that larger list). While I'm sure all Tribes players appreciate TooCrooked's efforts, the purpose of this wiki article is to show a representative "best of breed" summary of information and links, which the "tribesmasterserver.com" clearly represents. Dxco (talk) 02:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

The link reappeared, so I'll summarize here: the link is to a non-notable site (few hits relative to existing metaserver link). The linked site appears to contain just a subset of what appears on the site of the existing link (tribesmasterserver site appears to be the "best of breed" site to link to for readers). The link is self-promotion. Please feel free to discuss and address these three points.Dxco (talk) 22:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
In the interests of "diplomacy", it should first be argued that the link be removed, an then to see the consensus of the notion. You jumped straight to removal (with no authority) and then decided to offer an explanation (ready, fire, aim). First of all, there is no "official" master server anymore. So determining a "subset" is a venture in futility. I simply query a different server than they do. Secondly, my results are real-time. Third of all, in regards to the history of the game, my server lead to the inception of that site. I can provide emails which show that that site's owner asked me for permission to use my ideas to create his design, and then i can show you emails where he plagiarized my layouts. It would not be fair or accurate to remove my link as it is the progenitor of what you are trying to highlight here.
Now that you have my input plus your input, we are currently at a stalemate. And thus far, one anon has reverted your work, so that kind of tips the scale. Also, do us and the rest of the internet and not try to trivialize this into a "who has the most on their side" tit-for-tat matter. Instead, understand the value that is gained by providing would be readers with information that will expand their knowledge on the subject matter. As this is a collaborative effort, do not confuse that for some type of voting system. Try and use some common sense and not your partisan view on the situation. Wait until there is an OBVIOUS consensus on the situation before you use your pseudo power to remove the link again. Your will is no more strong than mine, so stop acting like you're the admin of this article and that what you determine is right (at your own whim no less) will then be immediately enacted without any consensus. My link EXPANDS on information related to tribes. Stop trying to deprive the article of DEPTH. Stop being a hypocrite and stop trying to force your selfish agenda on the rest of us. Otherwise, you will be instigating a "link war" with your undiplomatic removals.
TooCrooked (talk) 11:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, glad you stopped by the chat page. Please discuss these three points:
  • 1. Your site is not notable. The existing link gets a lot of hits, yours gets very very few. This leads to the idea that the existing link the best bet.
  • 2. Your site provides less data than the existing link, and the data provided is already present in larger form in the existing link. This leads to the idea that the existing link is clearly the winner, with your site effectively just duplicating a lesser portion of it.
  • 3. Your addition is self promotion. You, the owner of a site, are trying to add a link to a wiki page. This leads to the idea that you are understandably biased in favor of your site and its presence on the page, and that this conflict of interest leads to a suspicion of your addition on the page.
The purpose of an article is to summarize information on a topic for a reader, and provide best-of-breed links and further information. Wikipedia is not intended to contain *all* information, but the best, most representative information. When a user shows up and places a link to a site they own, and when this site is obscure and provides less information than already available from other, better links, you can expect resistence such as you are experiencing. Anyhoo, please address these three points as you're able. Thanks! Dxco (talk) 21:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
What are you points based on? Well, besides personal opinion? Sure, you can make a point and provide data that you feel validates that point, but the points themselves are weak. My site is notable by the fact that not only is it the progenator of the site that you are trying to promote above mine, but also that it provides a different perspective on the same. It's hardly a coincidence that the two sites look the same. Don't you think that one or the other would have been an attempt to convey the information differently? Besides that, who says that there can only be one source of information on a topic? This is where your point is the weakest. There is no merit in attempting to compare the one resource to the other. Period. For instance, perhaps there should be a heading describing the master server's death. My site conincides with this. And the death of the master server is completely within the scope of this article. My site has notability in that era of Tribes, and also was partly a reason the site you note exists. Without my implementation of the query technology, which i have mails to underscore, the site simply would not exist when it existed. The two are irrevocably linked to one another. Your point about my site providing less data is again a poor opinionated interpretation of the information at hand. Again, i mention that i query a different server. Therefore i get different results. However, i provide resources that the other site doesn't have. For instance, the downloadable CS file. Also, my results are real time. These differences make my site just as notable. The only reason my site doesn't get traffic is because i don't actively engage in that practice. That does NOT determine the validity or the notability of my site in relation to the history of tribes. That history has already been written, and therefore should remain. Your point that i am duplicating information is hypocritical: that site was a duplication of mine, and simply amended with other information. If you try to put that on me, then you must also use that logic against the site in question which is simply a port of my site. As for "self promotion", i certainly expect to be given credit for my hard work. However, I didn't simply create a site that mimiced ANYTHING on the topic. I created a new resource that was not available in that format and provided a service to the tribes community. I don't call that self promotion. Adding it to the wiki at the time was highly unselfish. The link remaining underlines the fact that my work is undeniably linked to the history of tribes. Take a look at the entry for "martin luther king", just for one random example of how two links, which perhaps are linked to one another, exist becuase both have something notable to do with the topic. These links are the audio links to his speeches. One is a specific audio feed, and the other is a collection of links. Therefore, your (personal) idea about "best of" is flawed. Please show me a wiki article that underscores your point to get a bit more credibility. However, it is likely you will have misinterpreted that article, but i challenge you to this idea anyway. You require the burden of proof becuase youre essentially making it up as you go along here.
Please remember That this article is a collaborative effort. Stop trying to force your opinion on others. I know you want to enforce your selfish agenda, but you need to stop making rules up as you go along in the persuit of that notion
TooCrooked (talk) 01:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)