Talk:Starfleet uniforms

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[edit] Uniform colors

I would like to see us have a table with what color each division wore in each series. I say this because it gets quite confusing during the movie years. It may also just be easier to show what type of uniform and what color, so we could also include special forces, engineers, security, and cadets. I may start working on this myself, and if anyone wants to help, let me know. TEG 06:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Please just be sure to include citations to reliable, secondary sources, e.g. the Encyclopedia. As it stands, this article's sourcing is awful, but if you're going to add new content, it would be nice to see you set a high bar for us to bring the rest of the article up to. --EEMeltonIV 14:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

MBR and her son used to run "Lincoln Enterprises" with Gene's blessing and lust for profit. I think it began when the fan mail came in and the cast & crew were giving things to fans instead of selling them. LE could be considered the ultimate source. They sold the original fan uniform patterns, and I remember this: (by the 3rd season, by the time they had things figured out) GOLD was command, not command and anything else, just command. RED was services and BLUE was sciences. http://www.roddenberry.com/ Also see Bjo Trimble, the fan who saved Star Trek and was the original Trek encyclopedist.

The command shirt was originally green, but came out gold on camera because editing and networks did not understand that SPOCK was supposed to be green and color corrected. See Nimoy's Books I am Not Spock, and I am Spock for confirmation. Kirk's additional green shirt was that color green on purpose, for the "Enemy Within" (the one with two Kirks). Early Starlogs will also confirm that Spock was color corrected. (anyone watching the original not remastered show will see Spock turn from greenish to yellow to pinkish within the same scene)

That it was meant to be green should be in the article if sources can be cited. Besides color correction of Spock's makeup, I recall that the yellow color was caused by an unintended interaction of fabric, light, and film, peculiar to velour and the dye used. It is said the green dress uniform actually matches the color of the standard uniform but was a different fabric that didn't color-shift on TV, and the same may be true of the wrap-around tunics. In other words, all the yellow shirts in early episodes were made the same color as the green dress uniform. It's logical but it needs clarification and a good sources cited.
Also needed is clarification when did costume designers accept that gold was the color being broadcast and subsequently did the color become gold intentionally. Obviously it was gold intentionally by the time they switched from velour to polyester in the third season, due to the cost of replacing velour which shrunk in the wash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.111.195.56 (talk) 15:40, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Movies: White - Command, Gold - Services, Green- Medical, Blue - Sciences, Black - Security, again from Lincoln Enterprises. The address for Lincoln Enterprises is: Lincoln Enterprises 14710 Arminta St. Van Nuys, CA 91402 (818) 989-4978

[edit] Discussion

This needs rewriting according to WP:FICT, even if not deleted. Things to mention

  • different uniforms in The Cage, and also Where No Man Has Gone Before
  • the actual real-life costume designers
  • where we get this blue/red/yellow business from - is it mentioned in dialog?
  • redshirts!
  • the different variants of Kirk's uniform
  • some crossreferencing to insignia
  • variant costumes for other purposes - dress uniform, spacesuits, work gear, etc
  • the way we see in Star Trek: Generations the NCC1701D crew wearing both types of uniforms
    • why, in the real world, was this uniform changed
  • miniskirts
  • miniskirts for men in season 1 of TNG (quickly dropped)
  • Troi's nonstandard uniforms
  • the use of um, "padding", for female actors in the show
    • this is reasonably well-documented in interviews
  • re-appearances of old uniforms in other shows : particularly the TOS uniforms in A Mirror, Darkly and Trials and Tribble-ations
  • no mention of the movie uniforms!!!
  • what material were they actually made of (spandex for the TNG ones i gather. they were usually called "space suits" by the cast and were extremely hot - should be interviews about this)
  • the availability replica uniforms

and that's just if we are keeping to this name. A general Costumes in Star Trek article would have far more topics, particularly about William Ware Theiss's habit of exposing as much female guest star skin as he possibly could without being remotely obscene. Morwen - Talk 12:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Because of a) the availability of replica uniforms and b) the ability to make a drawing of the uniforms, if not take a free photo, the screencaps clearly fail criteria #1 of WP:FUC and so have been removed. ed g2s • talk 13:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
That's a poor decision. Taking photos of a trekkie wearing his gear is nothing like as informative or authoritative as screencaps from the actual series. I don't see when you're describing uniforms used on the series anything could possibly compare to, well, photos of people in the series! Although I had to wonder, were they actually genuine screencaps? Are there really so many scenes where apparently the entire cast lines up in front of the camera? Stevage 14:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
no, they weren't screencaps. they were publicity stills. Morwen - Talk 16:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I am all in for most of those changes. I agree article needs work. I reccomend on screen appearances over uniform replicas as what appeared on the show is only official. I also am happy with articles title. Starfleet occupies most of the show. A seperate article about other costumes (such as the bajorans, romulans and cardassians) can be created. Starfleet is the main "entity" everything else is just minor. --Cat out 17:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually this is not really true. Theiss's costume designs for random female guest stars are probably the most notable feature of the show. Morwen - Talk 17:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I am not saying it was unnotable (notability is a binary concept in my view something is either notable or it isnt). All I am suggesting is that this article will grow too large just by "starfleet" people which dominated the show. --Cat out 18:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The purpose of the images is to show what the costumes look like (or at least the primary purpose, and the one for which Fair Use is claimed). A drawing, whilst not as "authoritative", or indeed as good as the promo shots, would still serve the primary purpose adequately, conveying the essential information. ed g2s • talk 18:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I do not mind free alternatives. Its just that replicas are just not like the ones on the show. Show uniforms costed several thousand dollars each...
Furthermore it is much much easier to identify uniforms with pictures rather than ranting about them for ages.
--Cat out 19:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Nonetheless, it should be possible to illustrate the designs freely and adequately. ed g2s • talk 00:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. What about dress uniforms? Surgical uniforms? Space suits? However I'd like to argue about this after the AfD. --Cat out 12:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I didn't remove pictures of any of those. As I don't know what they look like, I couldn't comment. ed g2s • talk 13:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh I was speaking long term. The more causal (duty) uniforms were in the article. But there are lots and lots more beyond that. No single wikipedians income can have all that. Some uniforms dont have replicas such as various space suits. --Cat out 13:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but long term we should try to create free alternatives. Allowing fair use as a temporary measure removes all motivation to create such images. ed g2s • talk 17:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
No it removes credible citation from the article. Untill free alternatives are avalible, fair use images should be used. I really dont want to talk about uniforms blindly. --Cat out 18:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I just viewed this article for the first time and found it difficult to follow with out picture references. Although free pictures are preferable, screen shots would go a long way to improve readability until they are located.Futurehawk - talk 22:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

There's an interview with Bob Blackman here -> [1] Morwen - Talk 17:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I'll read it right away. --Cat out 18:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I kinda love ya. That is an excelent source. Semi-cannon, but more than acceptable. --Cat out 18:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)