Talk:Stardust fire

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Contents 1 =Letter to minsiter for justice & Law reform 2 Edits at 21:44, February 14, 2006 3 Location? 4 Casualties

[edit] =Letter to minsiter for justice & Law reform

Thelma Frazer b.1960 d.14th Feb. 1981 age 20. Killed in thr Stardust

On that frosty Feb morning I lost my dear sister Thelma, in that fire in Artane. She had trained with the Order of Malta Ambulance Corps, and was a secretary with the Irish Productivity Center. She had the whole of her life ahead of her.

I sometimes wonder what her last moments were like. A few months before she went to the aid of a young man, who was severely beaten outside the Stardust, on the night of the fire did she go to the aid of others, or even aid her boyfriend Michael? These questions will never be answered.

But now with all the hard work of Geraldine Foy, Gertrude & Carol Barrett, Greg O’Neill, and with the Stardust Legal Challenge, some questions may be about to be answered.

The tribunal of inquiry found that the fire was arson; my dear late father could never come to terms with that pronouncement. “Does that mean that anyone who was at that disco (who lost their lives and were severly injured) was a suspect to arson?” he once said to me. Sure there were fire exits locked and blocked, there was no escape from the toilets, but how did the fire start?

The new evidence now suggests that now at long last my sister name and the names of the 47 dead and injured may be finaly cleared, and the real justice may be done.

So I ask the minister for Justice and Law Reform to please take onboard this new information, and please find justice for my sister and the 47 other deceased and injured.

Maurice Frazer (mofrazer@gmail.com) Sandymount

My condolences on your loss. I hope you get what you are looking for. Palx 21:19, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits at 21:44, February 14, 2006

I've divided the article into sections as well as re-phrasing certain parts, correcting some minor spelling and grammar errors and adding extra information to the introduction. I've also expanded the paragraph on the Christy Moore song. Does anyone know whether it is permitted to quote the actual offending lines from the lyrics? Deireadh Fómhair 20:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

as long as you write the article then it's ok. You are stating a fact. If not some moderator will just delete it. be brave is what they want. go for it. Palx 21:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

---

"and Christy Moore remains the only person ever to be brought to trial over the Stardust tragedy." No one person was charged on the night of the fire for stealing a car( the person tried to pull a toilet window out to help people escape the fire)(Mf)

Not too sure about this quote, apparently the father of two girls who died in the fire assaulted the owner of the nightclub, and received a suspended sentence.

anon

[edit] Location?

Killmore road...

Anyone care to add more info about the location? I.e., what street it was on, what was on the site before (I think the drama mentioned a jam factory) and what's there now.

Located on the Kilmore Road opposite Artane Castle(Shopping Centre) and is now an industrial estate Butterly Business Park,a public house is now in its place and the Industrial estate offices occupy the 'stardust'.To get on to the kilmore road from the city centre drive up the malahide road and take a left a the Goblet Pub and 500 yards on your right behind the maxol Garage, there it is.

[edit] Casualties

I will declare a conflict of interest here having lost a distant relative. However BigDunc has no evidence that the list was added as a memorial. Anyone who gives WP:NOT#MEMORIAL more than a cursory glance will see that it does not apply Aatomic1 (talk) 16:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you expalin to me so how WP:NOT#MEMORIAL does not apply here? BigDunc (talk) 19:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:NOT#MEMORIAL, Part 1 : Wikipedia is not the place to honor departed friends and relatives. - What relevance does this have to this article? (None to my Knowledge)

Part 2 Subjects of encyclopedia articles must be notable besides being fondly remembered. - What relevance does this have to this article? (None to my Knowledge)Aatomic1 (talk) 20:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Apart from the tragic death of these people how do they fit in with this, if they dont conform to this criteria then surely it is only a memorial. BigDunc (talk) 20:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

See this discussion: so do you want to start another mediation? --Domer48 (talk) 20:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Glad you brought that up. The answer to both questions

WP:NNC is quite clearly inclusionist in tone^[1]:

Notability guidelines do not directly limit article content [1]

• Notability guidelines give guidance on whether a topic is notable enough to be included in Wikipedia as a separate article, but do not specifically regulate the content of articles, which is governed by other guidelines such as those on using reliable sources and on handling trivia. The particular topics and facts within an article are not each required to meet the standard of the notability guidelines[2].

All I get from Domer at here is WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. Please dont start that here Aatomic1 (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Notability guidelines give guidance on whether a topic is notable enough to be included in Wikipedia the Stardust meets this criteria. The memorial list, dose not. Address this discussion first, before you go off doing the same thing here. It is obvious you just want to make a point and that is now your sole intension. Now your links don't amount to Jack! And your link to WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, amounts to smoke in a bottle. Now, go to this discussion, get consensus, and move on. --Domer48 (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Domer please stop talking gibberish Aatomic1 (talk) 23:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Notability guidelines give guidance on whether a topic is notable enough to be included in Wikipedia as a separate article does the list of the dead warrant an article of it's own? Or am I reading this wrong. BigDunc (talk) 22:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

BigDunc I think you have missed the second half of the sentence:

but do not specifically regulate the content of articles, which is governed by other guidelines such as those on using reliable sources and on handling trivia. Aatomic1 (talk) 23:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Aatomic1 I think you have missed the second half of the sentence:

but do not specifically regulate the content of articles, which is governed by other guidelines such as those on using reliable sources and on handling trivia. Such as WP:NOT#MEMORIAL. Now there is an ongoing discussion here. Resolve that first! --Domer48 (talk) 23:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Aatomic1 you should also consider this, and join the discussion. --Domer48 (talk) 23:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Everyone seems to entirely miss what is being said in WP:NOT. This refers to making an entire article about someone who is non-notable, not adding a list of casualties' names in a disaster (look at Dunblane massacre, Columbine_shooting, List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre, etc., all of which carry lists of names). EamonnPKeane (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

There is an ongoing discussion. discussion here. Please join it. --Domer48 (talk) 23:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)