Talk:Star Wars music

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[edit] The Star Wars saga principal themes and diegetic music

[edit] The leitmotifs

  • It would be good to have a short audio file (MIDI sound) of the main Star Wars themes.
  • It would also be good to have a short description of each motif, including when it is heard, if it is generally slow or fast, if it is in Major of Minor mode, etc.
  • The "When-it-is-heard" is almost done for each theme, but it must be more general than specific.
  • The description of Across the Stars could be a good exemple of a short analysis.

[edit] The soundtracks

  • For the soundtracks, it would be good to have a list of the releases, a description of the impact of those releases (top ten discs or top ten tunes), and how where they released (LP, CD, CD with DVD).
  • It would also be good, for the soundtracks, to have the track listing of the main releases.

[edit] Other Star Wars music

  • If we add the music from Shadows of the Empire, this means this page is now used for all music related to Star Wars, which include KotOR and many other video games. I do not think this is a good idea. Perhaps there should be a page for Star Wars movie music by John Williams and another page for other Star Wars music, if it is really usefull to have this kind of informations on Wikipedia. Tristan Morin 21:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC).
The canon music is that which appears in the films or was recorded for the films (eg lots of the stuff on the 1997 SEs which was cut from the films, but still counts). Anything else should not be in an encyclopaedic article about SW music. Batmanand | Talk 10:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Canon includes all non-contradicting EU, so there is no reason not to include other SW music. The Wookieepedian 01:50, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Best score

Which Star Wars score is the best ? Episode IV won an Academy Award but has nothing of the complexity of Episode I, II and III. Episode V was at the time the longest score in film music history and has really beautiful themes (Yoda's theme and Han and the Princess) but the Imperial March comes much too often to make it a great musical experience. Episode VI is my favorite of the Original Trilogy. But can we compare it with the Prequel Trilogy? John Williams really changed his style in 20 years, so that the Prequel Trilogy is another kind of music. We could say Episode III is the more dramatic score of the Prequel Trilogy, but, except for the bootlegs (that I do not have), we just know of half the score. Tristan Morin 21:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC).

It is widely agreed (eg [1], [2] etc) that Episode V is the best score. Batmanand | Talk 10:26, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Albums

I know that this article is part of the Star Wars wikiproject but when I was looking down at the discography listings and I reckon that it needs a bit tidied up to bring it more in line with WP:ALBUM with infoboxes for each score (not individual release but each film, keeping information for each release) and the like. It may just be my opinion but I certainly think that it would make it a lot tidier. Any objections? --Thetriangleguy 19:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Similarities with other compositions

  • Maybe someone can add something to this section about the similar beginnings of "The Walls Converge" and Finlandia by Jean Sibelius? 24.196.111.46 04:16, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I think some mention of the similarities with Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake should be made.

This section appears to blame all of the similarities on "temp tracks." Has this been proven? It also calls the transcribing of other compositions a "clear exaggeration." It could also be noted that the possibility of a composer striking the same eight notes within a six note range as someone else, the Main Theme for example, without any exposure to it before is 1 out of 1,679,616. ChrisBlueStone 00:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I agree with ChrisBlueStone. The article implies that the similarities are rather minor and that those who think they aren't are in the minority, neither of which is true. I'd say there's a general concensus amongst classical musicians that Williams steals/borrows a lot of ideas from other compositions. Also, there are a lot of weasel words or statements of opinion in the opening paragraph of that section. Ebolamunkee (talk) 20:46, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anakin/Vader

I think we should call both of the duels "Vader vs.Obi-Wan," as those are the correct names of the two opponents in each battle. We can simply note which one is on Mustafar and which one is on the Death Star. The Wookieepedian 17:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

OK a few things count against this. First is that, in the popular imagination at least, Anakin is not Vader until the suit goes on. Secondly, there is official infomation. The musical cue is called "Anakin v. Obi Wan". In all versions of the scipt I can find online (eg [3], [4]), he is referred to as "Anakin". yes, they are unofficial, but it still seems fairly convincing. Thirdly, in the duel itself, he is referred to as "Anakin" by Obi-Wan, and he does not appear to try to correct him. Finally, there is a precedent in the films for people becoming Sith Lords but still being called - for convenience - their old name: Count Dooku. No-one is suggesting that we change all references of "Count Dooku" on Wikipedia to "Lord Tyranus". Why should we change this reference of "Anakin" to "Darth Vader"? Batmanand | Talk 21:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
At that particular point in time... Anakin is dead. Anakin is no longer. That's Vader fighting Obi-Wan. When he pledged his allegiance to the Sith, he gave up the name of Anakin Skywalker completely (see his statement in ROTJ of "That name no longer has any meaning for me."). The film itself gives us this information, and... the film is about as official of a source as you can get concerning his name. Public opinion has no bearing whatsoever on an encyclopedia. Also, it's only natural that Obi-Wan would call him Anakin during the ROTS duel, as Obi-Wan still thinks of him as Anakin at that point, as that's what he had called him for the entire time he had known him. For these reasons, I believe that he should always be referred to as Darth Vader in all of his appearances after Palpatine gives him the name of Darth Vader. Dooku never gave up his former name, and neither did Palpatoine, so there is no reason to refer to them by a specific name unless the context demands it. The Wookieepedian 22:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
What about the fact that the scripts attribute the lines he speaks to "Anakin"? And also, public opinion should play a part. Rememeber, WP:NAME says, and I quote, "Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists." Most regular joes think he is Anakin until the suit is put on. Why should we confuse an alreayd confusing issue more by not using the name that a) he is officially referred to as in the script b) everyone around him says c) most people know him as at that point and d) that is backed up by, eg, the music? Batmanand | Talk 22:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Very well. But regular joes must be pretty stupid to not notice one of the most pivotal moments of the film. If they think he's Anakin until he gets into the suit, then it is of no surprise to me that shows like American Idol are on the air. The Wookieepedian 22:38, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Hahaha very true. If any other users have an opinion on this, and they side with you, then I will gladly back down. I just think that my view is consensus, for the moment. Batmanand | Talk 08:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Ah, yes, I agree with Batmanand. George Lucas even said how Anakin grew from a little boy (Anakin Skywalker) to the man in the SUIT (Darth Vader). Also, in the book "Dark Lord: Rise of Lord Vader", it is said that "after the duel at mustafar, Anakin Skywalker abandoned his old name completely, becoming Darth Vader." So, for all intensive purposes he is still mostly Anakin until he puts on his suit and learns that Padme is dead, the only thing he had to cling onto his old life.--DeadGuy 17:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Number one reason why the duels should stay as "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan": the soundtrack lists the piece as "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.23.196.162 (talk) 11:23, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Main theme

Someone should really make the article for the main theme, particularly since it is "easily the most famous."68.6.85.167 08:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

That can be argued against, as the Imperial March, Force Theme, and Duel of the Fates have high fame in popular culture as well.--DeadGuy 19:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New articles

I personally think that this article is way too long. We should separate it into smaller articles so it would be easier to read. 3/4 of the article is for the soundtracks, and these are just listing of the tracks without comments on the impact in the movie or the prizes and nominations. Perhaps we should have 1 article for the leitmotifs and another for the soundtracks. Or a separate one for each soundtrack. Or a separate one for each movie. Does someone have an idea ? Trimmo 17:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC).

I created an article for each soundtrack. The article is easier to read like that. Trimmo 12:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC).

[edit] What track is that theme that plays during the final part of Luke and Vader's duel?

I think it plays right after Vader says he could turn leia to the dark side.Ollie the Magic Skater 00:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The cue is mostly commonly called The Dark Side Beckons, and is found in the track "The Battle of Endor II" on the most recent CD releases. Batmanand | Talk 09:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Specifically, it starts at about 5:02 into that track. =) 152.23.196.162 11:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Isn't the Star Wars soundtrack downloads link illegal?

You can download the music from it, so...

  • Wait, what do you mean, i mean i'll take the link.

[edit] Cantina band

I thought I saw a little snip of an old World War II movie on AMC or TCM, and they were playing the second Cantina Band song in the background, or something amazingly familiar. If anyone sees the movie again or finds something, can they post a mention? I really do like the jazz/swing feel and would like to find other similiar things to listen to. Stuff from the WW2 era would be pretty close.

Just generally, Glenn Miller would be a good match to the cantina band songs; Duke Ellington would be a good match, Benny Goodman was one of Williams' specific influences, I believe, as well. =) 152.23.196.162 11:26, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Force Theme vs. Luke's Theme

I think that calling it 'The Force Theme' is incorrect. I always thought that this theme was Luke's theme. Indeed, it is played when Obi-Wan first explains the Force to Luke, but it doesn't always happen when the Force is being referenced to. For example, the first time this theme occurred was in Episode IV when Luke - before we see Obi-Wan or hear about the Force - walks up to the edge of the sink hole and observes the twin sunset. Therefore, it can't possibly be the Force theme, because the concept of the Force has not yet been introduced. Subsequent occurrences of this theme are when Obi-Wan explains the Force to Luke, when Luke is driving in the speeder back to the homestead, and again when Luke arrives and sees his dead aunt and uncle. Notice that - out of those four occurrences - only one happens when the Force is mentioned, and all of them happen when Luke is present. See what I'm getting at? At the least, Luke should get some credit under the current definition of the Force Theme, as he's not mentioned at all.

The theme heard over the title crawl is Luke's theme. The theme heard, for example, during the Binary Sunset in Episode IV is the Force theme. That is how everyone, including Williams himself, describes them, so that is how they shall be called in the article. Batmanand | Talk 09:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Is the Force Theme also the theme used for Obi-wan Kenobi? — Loadmaster 17:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Revisions

I hope people don't mind the revisions to the page I just made. Amendation of a nummber of theme descriptions and removal of a host of very minor themes to be included in a subsection on secondary motifs. I did this because the article is getting quite cluttered and those themes did not fit the description of "principle leitmotifs" that the article sets out to describe.

[edit] Imperial March Score

As someone who has played the Imperial March twice (once in 2001, the other in 2006) I couldn't help but notice that the score is in the wrong key. It should be in G minor, not B minor. Any chance someone can correct this?crazyviolinist 08:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I have uploaded a version in G minor, both on this page and the theme's own page. I have also added a few others. Would it be useful to see some others notated? Hobbes35 19:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why isn't there an article for the main theme?

i mean, that's THE star wars song. all of the rest have articles, why not the main theme? Colorfulharp233 23:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

One word: Laziness. 152.23.196.162 11:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Why not create the article? As a wikipedia you have that power. Nat682 21:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Across the Stars =/= Battle of Endor

Whoever edited in that the Episode II love theme "Across the Stars" resembles the Battle of Endor music needs to back that up with specific references to sections in the love theme and the Battle of Endor pieces. 152.23.196.162 11:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music

None of the music on the side works with the online player, and, unless someone can show me how to, you can't download them. The samples are okay, but they are not what they sound like in the movies. Nat682 21:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jawa theme.MID

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Luke's Theme.MID

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Star Wars Trilogy soundtrack.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:StarWarsMainThemeSnippet.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 11:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Orchestral Score and Orchestration

Does anyone know is it possible to buy the orchestral score for the music in the films? And is there a list of instruments Williams uses in the films?

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Rebel Fanfare.MID

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Lando's Palace motif.MID

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Imperial theme.MID

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jabba's Baroque recital.MID

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not by Metallica

Throwing "metallica imperial march" into google will only show references to filesharing sources and webpages about this version being an urban legend, no reference to any Metallica discography at all. Suggest to delete reference