Talk:Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

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To-do list for Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy: edit · history · watch · refresh

Where applicable, when done on a particular point, indicate it's been done by putting a strike through it (using <s> and </s>):

  • Re-write lead section to comply with WP:LS. A good how-to is available in the WP:VG newsletter. Note that this can only really be done when all other parts of the article are completely/nearly completed.
  • Restructure Gameplay/Story section to make the layout consistent with other video game articles. The Gameplay section should describe the main gameplay mechanics - there's no need to list each weapon, Force power, or types of saber colour you can use.
  • Story:
  • One section describing the locations and characters (split into one section on characters and one on locations if they're long enough to justify it);
  • One section giving a good-length plot synopsis (the plot isn't particularly long or complicated, so 5-6 decent-length paragraphs should be enough).
  • Critical reception and Development section are GA- or near-GA-quality as they stand. If there are teeny niggling things like grammar, punctuation and whether or not game titles are italicised, correct them.
  • Basic English points such as: don't use second-person "you" (e.g. "you can choose your character's appearance" instead of "the player can choose their character's appearance") outside of quotes, use American English as this is an article about an American game.

To get a good idea of what each section should look like, check out the articles at WP:VG#Example articles (a good example article would be JKII as it's a GA and deals with a very similar subject matter to this article). If you're unsure of any points then bring them up on the talk page.
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Contents

[edit] Amusing

It's funny to see familiar names mentioned in the recent addition by Siegemaster, but I agree with it's removal. Quietmartialartist (talk) 18:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Combining two pictures

I was looking up Vienna when I came across some useful information on combining pictures into the same "box."

Human Male

Human Female

I'm not happy with the way it would look though, compared to the current layout. Does anyone know how to combine the two pictures and keep it on the right as it is currently? Quietmartialartist (talk) 03:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I'm sorry.

It would seem I've included the current community that still plays JKA, all die-hards, and the more immature people seem to have taken to vandalizing the page. Is there anyway we can get this locked so that unregistered users cannot make edits?

As for the multi-player screenshot, sorry Diamondback, but the previous image displayed more game play elements and did not included modifications to the original game; i.e. Ninja model or whatever that is you're using. Quietmartialartist (talk) 14:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What happened?? When I added the multi-player screenshot back in November, the page was looking great. Now it would seem it's been vandalized so many times that all quality has diminished. When I search back through page history it's like I can't find how it once was. Someone must have edited a page in the page's history. Where have you been, Una Laguna? Quietmartialartist (talk) 14:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

To be fair this page hasn't ever been particularly good... and I haven't been editing Wikipedia much for the past few months, either. I think I reverted one or two blatantly inappropriate edits when I've seen them, but I've been all-round quite slow with Wikipedia for the past few months, I'm afraid. Una LagunaTalk 15:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Great, good, terrible, without a reference you can't compare. You can easily say, good as opposed to what? Would you agree that the quality has substantially diminished since, say, December?
References are gone a lot of text has been removed and the page's code has been altered so now it is somewhat glitched. For example: When I try to put the multi-player screenshot next to the multi-player text the picture over laps text. Quietmartialartist (talk) 16:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Overall the article appears to be slightly worse than before, yes. The issue with the image you've described would be solved if the article was longer. I'm currently tied up with loads of schoolwork and don't anticipate the load to get much lighter for the next couple of weeks. I'll try to help improve the article when I can, though; the main things which need doing are in the todo list at the top of the talk page. Una LagunaTalk 18:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Diamondback, please refrain from reverting the current multi-player picture. As I have already mentioned, the current image displays more game play elements and does not included modifications to the original game; i.e. the skin you're using. Furthermore, the current image has English text. If you would like to post a JKA multi-player screenshot with Polish, please do so on the Polish JKA page. Quietmartialartist (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Changes from Jedi Outcast to Jedi Academy"

This material is unsubstantiated gameguide trivia. I am deleting it, but it's in the history if anyone can find third-party sources to substantiate the claims. --EEMIV (talk) 00:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Seconded - not only was it trivia, but it was also unsourced original research which had little relevance to the article. Una LagunaTalk 06:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
May I ask what you mean by "unsubstantiated game guide trivia"?
Would this count as a third-party source? They are an official distributor of the game. As I recall, most of the information in "Changes from Jedi Outcast to Jedi Academy" was on the main LucasArts webpage when I first saw it back in '03. But since LucasArts discontinued that page it can't be brought up and used as a reference. Quietmartialartist (talk) 14:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Ideally, instead of a list of features that are different from JK2, the article would have a development section with background behind the features and information on why/how they were developed. IGN looks like a good place to start to get information from as it has a few previews of the game. Bill (talk|contribs) 15:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
"Unsubstantiated" refers to the lack of citations for the section; "game guide" refers to the fact that it's less suited to a encyclopedia and more to a video game guide - see WP:NOT#GUIDE and WP:NOT#FAQ; "trivia" refers to the unencyclopedic nature of the facts. I don't see any reason why we should re-insert the information in a section by itself. As Bill has said, if the differences were high-profile during development or a source of praise/criticism in reviews, then they should be mentioned in the relevant sections (indeed, I'm writing the Reception section myself here, and one of the things which keeps coming up in reviews is how the start of JA is much better than the start of JO).
Regarding using that Amazon page as a source - if there was any useful information in the Product Description it could be used; however, the user reviews are not a reliable source as anybody can submit a review which may have numerous incorrect facts in it. That makes the Product Description a fairly reliable source, but the user reviews are unreliable sources. I usually first conduct research at gaming sites such as IGN and GameSpot to get information and use more obscure sites if the information I want isn't easy to find. I have a list of potential sources for use on this page here, if you're interested. Una LagunaTalk 15:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I just noticed this message so I'll stop adding to the existing reception section while you're writing the new version. Bill (talk|contribs) 16:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks :) If you like we can split the work such that I write the Critical reception section (currently around 2/3 complete) and you write the Development section. I also have one or two paper-based sources which can be used to write a short "legacy" section describing the mod scene, thejediacademy.net and maybe one or two other things. The articles (in PC Gamer UK) are big enough to warrant inclusion of their subject matter in the article. Una LagunaTalk 20:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like a good plan to me. Bill (talk|contribs) 01:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revised Single Player section

I just thought I'd preview this before making the edit to get some feedback. I think a lot of the features included in "Changes from Jedi Outcast to Jedi Academy" are, at least, potentially encyclopedic bits of information that should be included. Maybe not in the previous format, but the two new weapons (DL-44 Blaster Pistol and Stouker Concussion Rifle) should be mentioned, perhaps along with all of the other available weapons. The species you can choose from should be included and not worded in such a way that it sounds as if you can actually choose your species and gender, because, quite frankly, I was crushed when I found out I couldn't have a male Zabrak as my character. A description of force powers and a list of saber colors would be a nice addition as well.

How would I go about using the "sandbox" like you're doing, Una?


Single player The player initially chooses the character's species, which can be any of the following: Human (male or female), Kel Dor (male), Rodian (male), Twi'lek (female), or Zabrak (female). Numerous lightsaber hilts with five different colors are available to choose from: Blue, Green, Purple, Orange, Yellow and later on one of the three available fighting styles (fast, or strong with medium being your default style from the beginning). New Force powers in single player include Force Absorb (protects you from the force or otherwise weakens harmful effects), Force Protect (weakens the harmful effects of gunfire and explosions), Force Sense (allows the player to see enemies through walls), Force Drain (transfers health from an enemy to the player), and Force Rage (makes the player faster and temporarily invulnerable at the expense of force power and drainage of health points). The game also introduces player-controllable vehicles and vehicle-based levels. As players progress, they will be allowed the option of continuing to use a single saber with all three styles or opting for duel sabers, one in each hand, or a "staff" styled saber with a blade on each end of the hilt, identical to Darth Maul's.

Instead of moving linearly from one level to the next, the player chooses from a selection of different missions. Not all missions need to be completed to finish the game. Quietmartialartist (talk) 03:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

To create your own sandbox, create User:Quietmartialartist/Sandbox and start using it for drafts and stuff. Simple as that. I used to just operate with one Sandbox page, but in order to keep my drafts of the two different articles I'm working on separate I split my Sandbox into User:UnaLaguna/Sandbox, User:UnaLaguna/Sandbox/Sandbox01 and User:UnaLaguna/Sandbox/Sandbox02. However, if you're only working on one article then there's little need for more than one Sandbox page.
Regarding the single player content, I think it's great start: it's good English, and definitely source-able. I would, however, say that there is little need to list each saber colour, Force power (I think the only stuff notable enough to mention is that there are some new ones in addition to the JO ones, and that players can choose them and upgrade them as they progress through the game) and race/gender (to get around your problem of not playing a male Zabrak, say that not all combinations of gender and race are possible). Likewise, it's a good idea to mention there are a couple of new weapons in addition to the original ones from JO, but to give all the details makes it quite difficult to read through for the non-player. In short, avoid inserting small details where possible.
On a side note, some people like to add citations in as they're going along, some when they've finished writing the main body of text. Whichever you do is completely up to you, but I'd suggest adding the citations before inserting it into the article. Regardless, keep up the good work! Una LagunaTalk 10:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
As for sabers, I think it's worth mention because in JO you can only change your saber color with codes and many of these colors were not seen in the original movies. As for force powers, many of them were in JO, but just in multi-player. Without a description why list powers at all? How's a non-player supposed to know the difference between force absorb and force protect? I agree that your ability to upgrade them as you progress should be mentioned.
And when you say that not all combinations of gender and race are possible, for me, the first question that comes to mind is: Well then what options are alloted to you? I concede to your point that specifically stating two new weapons shouldn't be important overall and I agree that insignificant details should be avoided. Quietmartialartist (talk) 18:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
We don't need to list Force powers, we don't need to list saber colours, we don't need to tell them which exact combinations of gender and player are available for the same reason we don't need to list the new guns available. These are relatively minor details in comparison to, say, how the levels of the game are structured. Say there's a choice of saber colours, say there's a load of Force powers which can be selected and upgraded throughout the game. Say those things here, but not what they specifically are (e.g. say "The player chooses their saber color" instead of "The player chooses a saber color from blue, green, yellow, orange or red"), and we've done our job writing an encyclopedia article. If the reader then decides he wants to know more about a certain subject (such as the different possible combinations of gender and race), then they can find out those extra details easily enough by Googling or looking on a game guide wiki. Una LagunaTalk 21:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Or we could simply make it easy for the reader and include the information here... And before you start quoting Wiki-policies (not-game guide, etc), let's take a look at a random popular game I thought to look up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect

Examine the depth of detail it goes into. Substitute Force Powers for "Tech Abilities", and then compare those, weapons and character classes with what we've got on this article. A lot more detail and information than the six, give or take, available options I'm suggesting including. That article, may I point out, is rated B class. A notch above this one, so let's go by example, shall we? Quietmartialartist (talk) 13:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

You shouldn't look for precedents in anything except Good or Featured articles, even Good articles can have flaws. As the Mass Effect article is only rated B it means it could use some cleaning up. There's a guideline that specifically states it's not important to list every aspect of a game. If you'd like an example, take a look at BioShock, which I chose as an example because it is a Featured Article and also the game has a diverse quantity of weapons that can be customised. The article does not go into fine detail about every type of weapon and their customisation. Bill (talk|contribs) 15:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

It's better to have too much information than too little, yes? That way it can be slimmed down. As it is, I'm just trying to think of important info to add to the article. Quietmartialartist (talk) 01:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Development and Critical Reception

Great works on these sections, guys. The article is looking much better. Quietmartialartist (talk) 17:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) I think the Gameplay and Story sections need a bit of work, but this article is pretty close to getting upgraded to B-class. Una LagunaTalk 20:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Multi-Player Section

Should another slot be added so that the very eager Diamondback may have have a screenshot of his own in said section? Quietmartialartist (talk) 19:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Only one multiplayer screenshot should be in the section, and it shouldn't have any mods or third party features/skins in it so to avoid any confusion. Bill (talk|contribs) 19:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Then how do I go about locking it so that Diamondback can no longer revert the image? Clearly this is an ego thing on his part: first he switched my screenshot with about three different inappropriate versions (i.e. mods, foreign language, etc.), and now he's replacing my screenshot of SJ killing Diamondback with Diamondback killing SJ. It's not really a "better" image, just one where he is not shown dieing. Quietmartialartist (talk) 21:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Furthermore, the picture he is attempting to add now has a model with a modified skin. Quietmartialartist (talk) 21:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, Diamond is being more disruptive than anything else. I left a message on their talk page asking him to come here and justify his edits. This whole "replacing X killing Y with Y killing X" business could be resolved by uploading an image of a multiplayer game with bots rather than one with real people. Una LagunaTalk 06:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Edit: looking at the edit history of the image, Diamond could be blocked for breaching WP:3RR. Una LagunaTalk 06:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I changed the picture to one with no names but still shows plenty of gameplay elements. Quietmartialartist (talk) 12:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that picture should be fine. Nice, clean and uncluttered. I've expanded the fair use rationale you put there. Una LagunaTalk 17:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)