Talk:Stamford Raffles

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Contents

[edit] Move request

Talk:Thomas Stamford Raffles - Thomas Stamford Raffles → Stamford Raffles - Stamford Raffles is currently a redirect. He's almost always known as Stamford Raffles; only rarely as Thomas Raffles. Jooler 11:01, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 17:47, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Largest empire the world has ever seen?

I've toned this done a little bit. Busiest port city, certainly. Alphax τεχ 01:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another Raffles's contributions?

Why don't you put another of Raffles's Contributions like found a plant named Rafflesia Arnoldi (well known as "Bunga Bangkai" in indonesian) and also a park (well known as "Kebun Raya Bogor") in Bogor, Indonesia!?

Fascinating. Can you add some of that yourself? - DavidWBrooks 15:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The Kebun Raya Bogor was founded by the Dutch after they returned in 1817 or thereabouts, although the modern gardens surround the later building which is on the site of Raffles's residence. Tim Byard-Jones 11:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raffles' fantasy of SingaPura

I have read or heard that Raffles was a passionate specialist of the Malay world and culture, and that his choice of the island of SingaPura/Singapore might have been highly influenced by the reference he knew from the Sejarah Melayu, where Singapore is described as a ancient place of glory.

And that Raffles, arriving in Singapore, heard references by locals to the nearby "Forbidden Hill" (now Fort Canning) as the resting place of great Malay Kings (including Iskandar Shah himself) further excited his plans of chosing Singapore.

I have, however, no primary or detailed information about that theory... Toh-mah 17:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original name?

In this source, it says that he was originally known as "J. S. Raffles", and later became known as Sir Stamford Raffles. I doubt it is a typo, because the author writes the initials multiple times, and even quotes a letter by Raffles. Although, it is possible that he misread a T as a J on the signature. — 0918BRIAN • 2006-04-4 22:02

Actually I believe he was baptized with the last name Bingley even, but the name issue isn't all that important. Rev. Bingley was his godfather and may have put him through the two years of official schooling he received, but since he mentions little about this in his own writings and since joining the East India Company in correspondences (I'm going with the ones he's having with Gillespie and Minto and whatnot) he's been going as Raffles. If anyone feels that this is worthy of a mention I can add a bit of his naming thing, but we don't have to, it's not all that important. - Karajanis 06:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Okay, I'm gonna quote a book right here to clear up the whole "Thomas" or "Stamford" issue for anyone curious. It happened after his knighthood in 1816 upon his return from Java:
    • "It seems that thenceforward RAffles used exclusively his second name of Stamford. The explanation given by Lady Raffles is that he thus avoided any confusion with Sir Thomas Sevestre, his "body physician", as Cousin Thomas disdainfully described him. John Palmer of Calcutta attributed the change to vanity - "humble Thomas is sunk". The most likely reason was that there was more than one Thomas Raffles in the family. Whatever the reason may be, he became known to the world as Sir Stamford." (Wurtzburg, 418-419)
    • There's also a footnote saying "Even then there was confusion. Cousin Thomas's eldest son was christened Thomas Stamford, and when, in 1864, he published the memoirs of his father, at least one library catalogued him as Sir T.S. Raffles, this nearly forty years after Raffles' death.
  • I hope this clears everything clears up the things. He's referred to as Sir Stamford from then on as far as I'm concerned. In any case, I'm not aware of any other Thomas Raffles worthy of an entry yet, so the matter should be settled, if it weren't already. Karajanis 06:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Complete biography, and need contributions on other subjects about him

Okay, I've finished a complete biography of him from mostly two or three sources I have here (Wurtzburg mostly, also a bit of others like Turnbull). However, I'm a history student and have no clue regarding his interest in botany and hence the specimens he collected and studied. Please someone add a section on that. Also, if there are any errors, please correct them. I feel more sources are needed but my studies require me to move on to other Singaporean and British Malayan subjects. I might also write a slightly more sympathetic bio of Farquhar, Travers, and Crawfurd, but not at the present time. If anyone can add on to what I have here, it would be really great. Also, more pictures would be great. Thanks. Karajanis 14:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other activities in Asia, and connections to London

I'm afraid I don't know the details, but I get the distinct feeling that Raffles was even more active in various parts of Asia than this article describes. A great many items in the British Museum collection were brought back from Asia by him, or are otherwise connected to him, and this element of his life is not discussed in the article at all. What exactly was his relationship with the Museum? Was he simply donating things to the nation, in the way Lord Elgin did, or did he have a closer relationship with the institution? What books did he write? Did he live in other parts of Asia and have interesting or important impacts outside of Singapore, Malaysia and Java? Again, I do not know much about the man, but from the frequency with which his name pops up I would not be surprised if there's a lot of room for expansion in this here article. Thanks. LordAmeth 23:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

  • There are a ton of stuff about him that I'm sifting through. I'm a student regarding mostly his exploits right now and I'm only through his stuff on Java. I also know very little about botany but I do know that he brought back lots of samples from Java for the museum. Through the next few months (school is tough) I will update with as much information as I can garner, and anyone is welcomed to join in. My primary source is C.E. Wurtzburg as well as Raffles' correspondences. Karajanis 06:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sang Nila Utama or Sir Stamford Raffles as founder of Singapore?

There was already a Malay fishing village in Singapore prior to Sir Stamford Raffles's arrival. Singapore had already been known as to the Malays as "Singapura" (meaning "city of lions"), and according to historical sources on Singapore, the name "Singapura" was given by an exiled Sumatran Malay prince called Sang Nila Utama. (See History of Singapore) Singapore was known before then as "Temasek." Therefore, Singapore is a corrupted term for "Singapura." Unfortunately, history has shown favour to the colonist administrator as the founder instead of the people that found it beforehand. It's like saying the British found Hong Kong, whereas it was already a Chinese fishing village when the British first arrived there. The name "Hong Kong" is originally known as "Zianggang." (See Hong Kong). --Fantastic4boy 06:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

  • I think due to the fact that Singapore today as a continuously inhabited, expanding, administered, and most importantly, in James Scott's terms, legible (more or less) place was at least restarted by Raffles, it is fair to say that modern Singapore was founded by Raffles. The British founded Hong Kong as in the Hong Kong that has been continuously administered under a consistent form of rule and then transitioned under formal circumstances. If you'd really want to nitpick we can say that Modern Singapore or Modern Hong Kong was founded by the British, but documentation regarding previous settlements are so sketchy that we're just gonna have a few stubby articles laying around and I don't think that's going to be too helpful to anyone. The best way would be to incorporate the information into the articles about Hong Kong and Singapore instead of completely discrediting Raffles and Elliot and whatnot. Karajanis 02:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)