Talk:Stalag Luft III

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Contents 1 Resources 2 How many escapes? 3 Citations Needed 4 My New Project 5 Stalag II-D note 6 Goering or Himmler 7 List of escapes 8 Nebe 9 Spies vs POWs 10 1942 or 1943?

[edit] Resources

It would be both interesting and desirable to elaborate on where the diggers got their resources. The sheer amount of tools needed and sand moved require more explanation, because it all seems highly unlikely. Even when it's all true, as I gather from the number of references... Divad 20:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How many escapes?

The article's opening paragraph speaks of two escapes, one in 1943 and one in '44 but the body of the article appears to imply there was only one escape, the preparations for which took place across these two years.--Lairor 04:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of escapes, can we remove the reference that claims that Paul Brickhill wrote of the two most famous escapes - the Great Escape and Douglas Bader's? Paul Brickhill wrote a biography of Bader and his time in Stalag Luft III only comprised a small portion of the book so that comment is misldeaing. And, far more importantly, Bader never escaped from Stalag Luft III (although he had tried to escape from the hospital in which he was held immediately after being shot down). He constantly baited the guards and for this he was removed to Colditz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.203.98 (talk) 02:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations Needed

To whoever added all the "citations needed" tags: I think all the things you flagged up are in Brickhill's book, perhaps some in Williams. I'm not sure how to reference them... maybe do it as in a book, with (Brickhill 1951), then (ibid)...? Trious 12:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Removed Gp Cpt Massey cite needed. Added link to History in Film which references both he repaitriation and his testimony before HM Government on the executions.--Lepeu1999 20:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My New Project

I'm going to get this up to Featured status. I'm going to try anyway. I'm interested in this subject, am surprised that there is no Escape Wikiproject, will try and get one, and probably annoy the hell out of everyone. Anyone want to help? microchip08 20:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I have now added {{Fact}} tags to places that need them, as, although they are annoying, need to be addressed to get this article up to B-Class status. I will do them as I can, as I need to get the books from up in the attic. To cite a book, write:

.<ref>{{cite book | last = Carroll | first = Tim | title = The Great Escapers | publisher = Mainstream Publishers | date = 2004 | id = ISBN 1-84018-904-5 }}</ref>

for example. For more information about citing, please click on any fact tag. Thanks for your anticipated co-operation, microchip08 12:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

I may have started with all good intentions, but I have only just rediscovered this article. Let's try again, for GA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by microchip08 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Stalag II-D note

I fixed the note on Stalag II-D, as it was originally written as "11" and not linked. I'm unfamiliar with the details of the escape listed here; 1500 prisoners seems so enormous that I wonder if it was a mass escape or a total number of escapes during the Canadians' imprisonment there? The Stalag II-D article didn't note a mass-escape.

On a related note; should the non-Stalag Luft III section perhaps be moved into a "Mass POW escapes of WWII" article? It certainly seems noteworthy, but a bit tangential to the topic of Stalag Luft III, which should presumably just have details of the escape from that installation and perhaps a link to these other similar escapes. Just my .02. 142.167.169.78 18:50, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goering or Himmler

on this page it says goering persuaded hitler not to execute all the escapees but on jens mullers page it says himmler, who was it? or both? Webbmyster 21:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of escapes

Remove? Not very encyclopaedic? Split into seperate article? microchip08 08:57, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nebe

Apparently selecting the men to be shot was a 'traumatic experience for him'. I don't have access to the source cited, can anyone clarify what it does say please? Brickhill's "The Great Escape" (page 211) states while selecting the men to be shot he was 'grimly excited and behaved "uncountrollably"', which is something rather different entirely. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 20:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spies vs POWs

Not to sound like an apologist, but were not the escapees wearing civilian clothes? Doesn’t that mean that escapees would be treated as spies and not POWs. Hence the executions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.212.2.218 (talk) 19:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I was discussing this issue with someone recently and we had the same confusion. Additionally, I realize that movies are not a reliable source, but in the film "The Great Escape", a prisoner who tries to escape is shot by a machine gun placed in a tower. Why was it seemingly "okay" to shoot a prisoner in such a manner? Is there really a distinguishable difference here? GCD1 (talk) 21:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

IANAL, but as I recall Brickhill's book, they were wearing their uniforms, albeit somewhat recut, recolored, and generally made to look like civilian clothes. And they didn't act as spies or saboteurs. It does seem like a gray area, but note that they weren't all shot, nor accused of spying.

But shooting someone "while trying to escape" is okay, since he's made the decision to put himself back in play. That assumes that a prisoner really is trying to escape, and when called on to surrender, doesn't. And that the rules about the deadline were clear and known to the prisoner. If I'm remembering correctly, that incident was equivalent to suicide by cop.

—WWoods (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1942 or 1943?

Did the first successful escape happen in October 1942 or October 1943? Both dates are given.Cbalducc (talk) 17:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)