Talk:St Helens RFC
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[edit] Official name
Shouldn't this article be names St Helens RLFC???
- They are "officially" RFC, this is how they are listed as a company [1]. On teh saints website they in fact use RLC (no F) though. Grinner 09:43, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
- I would have though they should be RLFC as well - I'll look into it Rehnn83 11:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Nation identifiers
Shouldn't Keiron Cunningham have the Welsh flag rather than the English flag next to his name? Although born in England, he plays for the Welsh national team. I've looked on a few other sports pages on here & players seem to be classed by country played for rather than country of birth. RC4282
- Agreed KC plays for Wales (Sadly :-() - Have Changed --Rehnn83 11:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Lee Gilmour to Scotland Londo06 23:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] County representation
Would I be correct in saying that players first registered by St Helens would be eligible to play in a representative team for Lancashire (in, say, the Origin Series) and that no such team exists for Merseyside? Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 08:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Correct. The traditional boundaries of Lancashire take in most of Greater Manchester and Merseyside (as well as Barrow and the Furness peninsula) and hence they are 'Lankies' as far as origin goes. Strictly speaking since Blackpool is now no longer part of Lancashire as defined by the government, it is true to say that there are no pro or even semi-pro teams in Lancashire at all.GordyB 14:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 2008 Players
Have Dean McGilvray and Dave Hull been given squad numbers for 2008? Their names do not appear on the Squad list on the official Saints website. In Wikipedia only factual information should normally be presented. Both these players are listed in the Reserve Team on the official website. Shouldn't these two names therefore be removed from the 2008 first team squad listing until such time that their squad number is confirmed by the club? Tobias-UK (talk) 19:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- They were given squad no's last year. The reason the are not listed on the Saints website is the 25 rule. Probably best that they are linked there. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 19:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. Either the players are in the first team squad or they are not. As the Club have not (as yet) given them a first team squad number for the 2008 season their names should not appear in the first team squad until such time that the Club have themselves included their names.
25 rule? What rule is that? There is no rule that limits a Super League club to just 25 first team players. Tobias-UK (talk) 16:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't know whether it is the Super League Squads bit detailed here or the 20-25 salary cap rule from previous years but there is no upper limit on a squad size that I am aware of, just that you'd have to pay the rest of the squad less.Londo06 17:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
That is my understanding too Londo06. Given that the Club have not yet allocated (or at least published) squad numbers for the individuals concerned then their inclusion on the list should be removed until such time that the Club do officially issue and announce numbers for them. To include their names before that time would take away efficacy of the St Helens RFC WiKi listing. Are there any objections to these to names being removed from the Squad list until such time that the Club announce their official inclusion in the current first team squad and confirm their official squad number? Tobias-UK (talk) 14:49, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
They may have a professional contract but they are not (yet) named as first team squad members - they are officially recognised as Reserve Team players (see the Club website). Where is the proof that they have been given the squad numbers listed? A citation is needed to confirm the accuracy of the listing - without that the names should be removed and included on the listing for the Reserve Team until such time their squad numbers are officially announced. If the so-called "25 rule" is the reason for their non-inclusion in the first team squad (and a citation is needed for that) then the WiKi entry should still reflect fact and show details of the official squad as announced by the Club. An administrative rule or not, if it is a rule then the WiKi listing should reflect that rule. By all means mention the other players within the commentary of the listing, but to include them now in the list is wrong. There are other fringe players who also have professional contracts but they have not been included - so why just these two? To comply with the WiKi rule for accuracy the names should be removed until such time that the Club announce their respective numbers. Tobias-UK (talk) 10:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- The unverifiable information has been removed until the players' squad numbers and inclusion in the First Team are officially announced and confirmed by the Club. Tobias-UK (talk) 20:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
- WiKi REQUIRES that content is VERIFIABLE. The inclusion of those players in the First Team Squad has not been verified by the Club or RFL - the only organisations who can verify it. Once verification is available then the names should be included until then the names are removed. Tobias-UK (talk) 12:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
So where is the verifiable evidence that Dean McGilvrey has been issued the number 28 shirt and is a member of the first team squad? If you are going to insist that his name is included then please provide the verifiable evidence. If you are going to keep insisting that Dean's name is included then this matter will have to be reported as a dispute with Wikipedia for them to adjudicate. The rules of Wikipedia are clear and unequivocal in this regard, the rules state: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that readers should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed." So, in accordance with that rule, until such time that verifiable proof is provided proving that Dean (or any other player) has been officially issued with a squad number and has been included in the 'official' first team squad (and not simply that they have been training with the first team squad) then his name should not appear in the list. Tobias-UK (talk) 19:22, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
- Added in a citation for Dean McGilvray. Confirmed that he is in the squad, there are obviously many others out there, this one was grabbed from this page. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 22:04, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
That is not verification. Only an official source will do. The Club's official website confirms McGilvray to be in the RESERVE TEAM so his inclusion in the First Team Squad article is wrong in fact. His name must not be placed back until the Squad Number and his inclusion is confirmed by the Club. The Sky page is not verification, in any event it does not list a squad number and that is the issue. He should only be included when the Club issue and announce the number. Tobias-UK (talk) 15:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
- You appear to be wrong about that one fella. And also wrong about your claims on squad numbers determining which squad they may train with. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 18:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Where is it wrong. Can you PLEASE show me just ONE official source where the number 28 has been announced and issued to Dean? Just one please? I'll be a very happy chap if you can, absolutely delighted. At the end of the day the Saints OFFICIAL website lists Dean in the Reserve Team and NOT the first team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobias-UK (talk • contribs) 23:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
