Talk:Spock

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Spock was featured in a WikiWorld cartoon: (click image to the right for full size version.)

Contents 1 First Alien? 2 First Vulcan? 3 Mission failed? 4 First or last name? 5 Anon User Christian Statements 6 Journey to Babel 7 Yesteryear references 8 Canon vs. non-canon 9 Miscellaneous 10 Star Trek devotees, I need your help 11 Mind meld 12 STIII actors 13 Page name 14 Requested move to Spock, et al. 14.1 Voting 15 Spock's death and rebirth 16 Spock news 17 Spock's ranks 18 From the Personal Life section 19 Misplaced trivia item 20 George Lindsey 21 Article Format Comparison: Spock and James T. Kirk 22 Some random other references 23 "currently being portrayed by" 24 one of the few aliens 25 Origin of hand gesture 26 Ancestry

[edit] First Alien?

Mr. Spock was not the first alien on T.V. Uncle Martin(played by Ray Walston) on My Favorite Martian was aired on CBS from September 29, 1963. Several years before Star Trek was aired on September 8, 1966.

[edit] First Vulcan?

Was he the first Vulcan in Starfleet? Magic Pickle 20:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

No, he wasn't. The First Vulcan, was earlier In the 2100s, It may have been T'pol.

[edit] Mission failed?

Where exactly in the tenth film did it say that Spock's mission was a failure, and where is it said that Spock is now dead?

172.209.224.1 01:21, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't say explicitly that it was a failure but since Vulcans and Romulans aren't reunited in the tenth movie, it seems that he didn't succeed in bringing them closer. BTW the article says "Zar returns to the past at the end of the novel, but also reveals he is sterile" -- exactly where is this sentence in the novel Time For Yesterday? I read it but I don't remember Zar being sterile. Alensha 21:42, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I read the novel about 10-15 years ago and there was a conversation, somewhere in there, where Zar asks McCoy to sterilize him and McCoy says that he would. Either the author or the editors put that in the book to close the loop as to whether or not Spcok could have grandchildren. P.S.- I dont think Spock is dead either. Indeed, in Star Trek Nemesis the cooperation seen at the end of the film, i.e. when the Romulan military turns on Shinzon, would indicate that there is something still going on with reunification efforts. Husnock 1 Nov 2004

I found that part in the book. McCoy says Zar is able to have healthy children so there's no need to sterilize him but he will do it if Zar really wants it. I always thought Zar changed his mind after McCoy reassured him, but now I'm not sure. I don't think Spock is dead (at least, I hope he is still living :-) Alensha 18:50, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I would add this comment to the bottom of the page, but since "Zar" was debated here, I thought I'd put it here for it to be seen. The article as it now stands mentions the novel but does not actually clarify that "Zar" is the name of the son of Spock in the book. Someone who hasn't read the book would wonder who Zar was, as I did. Just a bit of clarification, one sentence, would be good. 72.192.237.134 20:31, 8 March 2006 (UTC) Ismail

[edit] First or last name?

I haven't seen "This Side of Paradise" in a long time, in which we first learn that Vulcans have two names. Question: has it been established that Spock is his FIRST or his SECOND name? I've been going under the impression it's his first name, but the introduction to this article says otherwise. 23skidoo 01:21, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"Spock" is apparently his surname.

I don't think so, since we have seen him referred to as "Spock, son of Sarek", etc. I believe it is his first name, unless canon supports that every Vulcan has a different family name. 23skidoo 17:59, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

In "This Side of Paradise", what she actually says is "You never told me if you had another name, Mr. Spock" (yes, I checked, I'm a nerd). In some cultures, the family name is last, in some it comes first. How's this: his family name is unpronouncable, Spock is his familiar/personal name, Spock is his last name, and everybody's happy. Roygbiv666 00:16, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Unpronounceable in what way? There are plenty of things that are unpronounceable to speakers of certain languages that dominate commerce on Earth in the early 21st century yet are perfectly pronounceable by native speakers of other human languages. Can you pronounce "he had held a bunchberry plant" in Nuxalk, consonants with precise places of articulation in Ubykh, or words with clicks in !Kung or Xhosa? In fact, the name of Nintendo's video game console code named "Revolution" was changed to "Wii" because Reboryuushon is a mouthful in Japanese. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 18:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

In the aforementioned episode, Spock's answer to the question was, "You couldn't pronounce it." Watch the episode in question if you have it available.  :) - EmiOfBrie 05:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

• The article says Spock whispers his name to the Romulan Commander in "The Enterprise Incident." No, I don't think he does. She is the one, in fact, who whispers HER name to him, whereupon he says something like "How rare and wonderful."Sir Rhosis 01:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I confirm this: She, the romulan commander, whispers HER name to him, Spock, and have deleted that false statetment in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.58.246.248 (talk) 19:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anon User Christian Statements

There is an anon user who keeps adding that Spock has a "Christian" name. The user has made this addition at least five times over the past 2-3 days. I have attempted leaving messages on this persons talk page but to no avail. The person is logging under several different IP addresses, as well, probably because of a rotating server.

In any event, I think we'll all agree that saying things like Vulcans are Christians and that Spock is a Christian and has a Christian name is not based on any evidence in Star Trek. I will continue to revert this person's comments in line with the policy of No original research. I hate to be mean to a newbie, but if it continues it might become a vandalism issue. -Husnock 05:13, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Be careful not to violate the three revert rule. You might need to consult an admin on this since the anon seems to be pretty insistent about it. 23skidoo 18:02, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Good point. The guy hasnt been on in a few days. If he does come back, it might become a vandalism issue if we all agree that saying Vulcans are Christians is patent nonsense and can be reverted without discussion. -Husnock 18:05, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I think there may be a misunderstanding here. In many parts of the world "Christian name" simply means a first name; it doesn't imply anything about religion. So all the poster probably means is that Spock has a first name. In fact I seem to remember a sequence from one of the TOS episodes where some woman falls in love with Spock, something like this:

Woman: Do you have a Christian name? Leila Kolomi: You never told me if you had another name, Mr. Spock.

Spock: You would never be able to pronounce it. Spock: You couldn't pronounce it.

Since I think "Christian name" was more likely to be used as a synonym for "first name" in the US in the sixties, it may have gone exactly like that. DJ Clayworth 18:11, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Fair comment, although if you check some of the Edit summaries there does appear to be an intent on the part of the anon to suggest that Vulcans might be Christians. Are you sure this dialogue appears in the episode? I know there is an exchange, but I don't recall Spock being specifically asked for his "Christian" name ... only his "other" name. Anyone got the DVD handy? 23skidoo 18:15, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Possibly the anon user is doing the misunderstanding. I suggest we put the info back in a form that can't be misinterpreted. I'm pretty certain that, whatever the phraseology, nothing more religious than "first name" was implied.

Finally found a reference: according to this interview with Leonard Nimoy Spock had a first name which could not be pronounced. "The only reference to his first name I recall is an episode which includes a beautiful love scene. In the end she said: 'You never told me your first name' and I said: 'You wouldn't be able to pronounce it'. " DJ Clayworth 18:27, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

In light of the corrected quote (see above), it's pretty clear that the episode doesn't specify whether the "unpronouncable" name is his first or last name. 23skidoo 13:37, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I think this comes from FANON. Spock's mother Amanda is a Christian, and did read the Bible to Spock. This is not included in CANON, but has been generally accepted by fans since the 1960s. I don't remember the entire legend, but it allowed Spock to integrate into Human (Terran) society and Starfleet more easily. Nimoy himself is a very proud Jew and includes elements of Judaism into the character of Spock. This fan legend has the same weight as T for Tiberius, or Hikaru as Sulu's name. It's accepted as fact even if it isn't shown on screen. It wasn't until ST:VI that Tiberius and Hikaru were both confirmed as CANON. The painting in Spock's quarters, "Expulsion from the Garden" could be a covert way of acknowledging the legend without expressly painting Spock or his mother Amanda as Christians. Logically, a Vulcan would not decorate his quarters with Human origin mythology, nor would he be as familiar with Genesis as shown in ST:II, unless his Human mother introduced him to it.

[edit] Journey to Babel

I would like to include this from the episode "Journey to Babel":

After Spock's parents have come aboard, Kirk addresses Amanda as "Mrs. Sarek."

Amanda replies, "Amanda. You couldn't pronounce the Vulcan family name."

"Can you?"

"Oh, after a fashion, and after many years of practice..."

In an interview, D.C. Fontana suggested a series of consonants which could be the family name. So of course fans picked on that as being the (non-canon) family name: Xtmprszntwfld. And don't ask me why I can remember that, but I don't remember what interview that was. :)

I'm not totally sure if, in Amanda's initial reply to Kirk, she used the phrase "family name." I think I remember it right.

Maybe it's worth asking--if Kirk found Spock's family name too difficult, would he call him "Mister" followed by his first name?

Everybody in and outside of Starfleet consistently called him "Mr. Spock."

Jimmy Carter's National Security Chief was Zbigniew Brzezinski. Did anybody ever call him "Mr. Zbigniew?" Not a perfect example, since his first name is only a little less difficult than his last name.

I remember a non-canon source which suggested his first name is Sareku, son of Sarek; his middle name is Spock and his family name is Xtmprszntwfld.

roger

[edit] Yesteryear references

I mentioned this on Kchishol1970's talk page as well, but I'll put the question out. Is there any source that says for certain that Yesteryear is considered canon? My understanding is there are no exceptions, and that the Encyclopedia and Chronology are not considered authoritative on this matter. 23skidoo 17:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canon vs. non-canon

I think we need a clearer indication of which material is canonical and which isn't. At the time of this writing, one of the paragraphs is simply prefixed with "[Non-canon]:". Not only is this bracketed text a less-than-ideal header, it doesn't make it clear whether it pertains only to a single paragraph, or to all text from that point forward (although clearly some of the later paragraphs reference canonical sources). Perhaps the Biography section should be divided into subsections? Ringbang 00:04, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

The paragraph in question appears to be a synopsis of the TAS episode "Yesteryear". I think a better intro than "non-canon" can be found for this, though I wouldn't suggest going too much into why TAS is not canon since that's covered elsewhere. I agree the biography section could be split up a bit. 23skidoo 01:53, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous

I fixed some factual errors involving the Nerve Pinch as well as the Mind Meld.

[edit] Star Trek devotees, I need your help

Throughout the (1966-69) Star Trek: TOS, Spock wears 2 full stripes around his wrists ,which is the rank of Commander, yet in the first season (I think) ,He's descibed as a Lieutenant Commander. Could someone explain? Is this a blooper? User:Mightberight/wrong 22:27, 29 October 2005 (EST).

I don't believe the rank system settled until the third season. If I recall correctly, Kirk wears two full stripes in Where No Man Has Gone Before, yet holds the rank of captain. But the way you describe it, it just sounds like Spock got a promotion that was never addressed in the series. 23skidoo 21:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

It may be helpful to consider the difference between rank and position. A person may hold the position of Captain of a ship and have the rank of Commander. -- William Carraway 26 Aug 06

In most real world navies such an officer would be called "Skipper" to avoid confusion. Gene was a WW2 bomber pilot and would know the difference. Jack Kennedy was the Skipper of PT109 not the captain.

It is an oddity -- despite wearing the full commander's stripes, he is referred to as "Lieutenant Commander" in several episodes (The Menagerie, Court Martial). --EEMeltonIV 04:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It would have helped if they had just copied the naval system completely rather than partially like they did for ST:TNG. It certainly would have been less confusing. Of course, it would also help if uniforms did not change on a whim. Will 06:05, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

My guess is, it was a script writers mistake. As Captain Kirk is the commander (CO) of the Enterprise, writers may have looked at position more then rank, somehow called Spock 'Lt.Cmder' as meaning the Commander's (the CO's) Lieutenant (next in command). Sure wish I had a varifiable source for this. GoodDay 20:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't quite sure where to say this... but Nimoy wasn't reluctant to be in the second movie. And when people say that it was in his contract that Spock was to die, or that they reached an agreement that Spock was supposed to die is not true. Don't believe me? check the intreview with Nimoy at the end of the first season, disc 8. He says so himself. Reflections on Spock. Spocks-girl Nimoy contradicts himself. Read "I Am Spock" he hated the way his character had been treated by Heinekin and The Motion Picture and only signed onto Wrath once they asked him if he'd like a death scene.

Nimoy contradicts himself. Read "I Am Spock" he hated the way his character had been treated by Heinekin and The Motion Picture and only signed onto Wrath once they asked him if he'd like a death scene.

[edit] Mind meld

I don't get the Vulcan mind meld stuff, I thought only full Vulcans can perform mind melds; like how only full Betazoids can read minds and half ones can only read emotions. The EMH once said not even Vulcan mind masters can perform mind melds sucessfully everytime. Spock can't even control his emotions all the time so how does he do mind melds? Odo

I do have a theory, and that is that it is the blend of human, and vulcan. That What every vulcan needs is the element of guesswork, Or that because he is half human, He does not fully hide his emotions, thus leaving him enough thought to work on the mind meld..Captain Eric 06:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] STIII actors

"During this film, he is played by Carl Steven (age 9), Vadia Potenza (Age 13), Stephen Manley (Age 17), and Joe W. Davis (Age 25). " The Joe W. Davis linked to here seems to be too old to be the same person... is it? -FZ 21:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Good call. IMDB (at [[1]]) shows only one other role played by this actor, so it is gonna be tough to get any additional info about him. I'm unlinking the article. Thanks --Keeves 11:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree. If you unlink one you have to unlink all three otherwise it looks awkward. I suggest unlinking all the actors in this paragraph if you're going to do this. Most likely what will happen now is someone will just come along, see a missing wikilink, and put it back in. I believe there's even a bot out there doing this. 23skidoo 15:30, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page name

Why isn't the name of the article Spock (Star Trek), like Phlox (Star Trek)? The closest I can find in WP:NC is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people)#Qualifiers not between brackets. I'm not up to boldly break links without discussion. --Christopherlin 07:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

My guess: Because the Mr. is included. In other words, a person might enter Spock having intended one of the other entries, but if someone enters Mr. Spock, it is highly unlikely that he meant anything other than this page. (I concede that someone might enter Mr. Spock intending for 2309 Mr. Spock.) In sharp contrast, someone who goes to Phlox probably wants the flower (much as we might want to deny it). --Keeves 11:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Fictional characters obey a different set of naming conventions to real people. In particular, titles are generally not included in articles about real people, but are included in articles about fictional characters. Examples here: Inspector Morse, Captain George Mainwaring, etc. Morwen - Talk 11:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

In particular, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) expressly notes that it doesn't apply to fictional characters, and gives the further example of Dame Edna Everage.

I looked through Category:Star Trek characters and its subcats and found other characters who follow the form "Dan (Star Trek)": Data, Lore, B-4, Quark, Rom, Vash, Chang. These don't have two-part names, and only Data has a rank. One that goes the other way (i.e. "Lieutenant Dan") is Lieutenant Hawk, who has first name Sean given in the article, but I don't recall one spoken on-screen to make it canon. While there is no firm guideline on naming of fictional characters, Spock (Star Trek) might give some consistency within the Star Trek-related articles. --Christopherlin 23:11, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Most people looking for Spock will either type in Spock or Mr. Spock. Moving the article to Spock (Star Trek) creates an unnecessary redirect. Specifying "Star Trek" is only necessary if the name by itself may refer to something else, as is the case with Data and Phlox for certain. Someone wanting Benjamin Spock would either type that name in or use Dr. Spock. Anyone looking for Mr. Spock who types in Dr. Spock deserves the redirect. ;-) 23skidoo 00:01, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spock's death and rebirth

I added some details from the novelization as a way of adding a possible explanation of why Kirk had Spock buried in space over the Genesis planet - not to replace any details from the movie with details from the book. I know probably a lot of people have not read the novelization, but it certainly helps to explain the possible motivations behind Kirk's decision not to return Spock to Vulcan and the motivation behind the space burial.

I also added some more details about the events covered in the third film dealing with the recovery of Spock's body and the refusion of the katra with his body. Such as how Spock had accomplished the transfer of his mind into another person, Sarek's request of Kirk to perform this mission, and Kirk's explanation to Spock of why he had done this thing.
JesseG 20:25, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spock news

"Recent evidence conclusively proves that Mr Spock is not half human and half Vulcan, he is in fact fully Vulcan. His late mother, previously thought to have been human, was in fact Vulcan."

I think that this important news should be included, even though there is no real evidence for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.26.205 (talk • contribs)

• Uncited claim. Every canon reference I'm aware of (and even every non-canon) states he's half vulcan, half human. Do you have any cites to back up the above claim? --Durin 13:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
• I had to go home and get the book in the end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.26.205 (talk • contribs)
• Just take a look at his ears —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.26.205 (talk • contribs)

• The appearance of his ears doesn't change his racial make up. This is still an uncited claim. --Durin 21:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

• Are you saying that his father was into bestiality?

[edit] Spock's ranks

Does anyone, know how to seperate Spock's Lieutenant Commander and Commander rank insignias? They appear stuck together on the article info box. GoodDay 17:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From the Personal Life section

"In the non-canon novel Yesterday's Son, Spock is revealed to have fathered a son while trapped in the past on the subsequently destroyed planet Sarpeidon. In the sequel, Time for Yesterday, Zar returns to mindmeld once more with the Guardian of Forever."

(Emphasis added.)

Interesting idea. I assume the novel had it that time flowed at disparate rates in the two eras. (Otherwise I'd have to steal a quote from an unworthy movie, to wit: "Fast worker, that guy!")

But I digress. To get to the point, this is the son of Spock and Zarabeth, and his name is Zar, true? Then his name should appear in the first sentence; otherwise it's vague who Zar is. --Chris 19:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misplaced trivia item

One of the trivia items ends with "Leondard Nimoy voiced Galvatron, a reincarnation of Megatron usually voiced by Frank Welker in Transformers: The Movie." However, this is a trivia item that could stand alone -- but not here. It would belong in the Leonard Nimoy article.--Will 05:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] George Lindsey

During the TVLand marathon of TOS this past weekend (I believe it was during "Shore Leave"), Nimoy stated that Rodenberry's first choice for for Spock was George Lindsey. Any other cite for this? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Format Comparison: Spock and James T. Kirk

The two articles Spock and James T. Kirk are written in very different formats. While reading "Spock", it is clear that the article is talking about a fictional character in a fictional universe, and appropriate phrasing and references to the actor (Leonard Nimoy) are used throughout. "James T. Kirk" is written in much more of an "in-universe" style, with only passing reference made to the fact that the Star Trek universe is, in fact, entirely fictional.

I make no assertion as to which is more appropriate. However, due to the similarities in the characters referenced in both articles, it seems like a consistent style should be adhered to. My question is simply, then, which format should we use? Once a format is decided upon, the other article should be modified accordingly.

Note: this section has been added to the talk page of both articles. Shiznick 05:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some random other references

I seem to remember Rose calling the Doctor 'Mr Spock' in the episode The empty Child. Would this be worth putting in cultural impact or other references? 9:19 29th June 2007 gonfission

[edit] "currently being portrayed by"

Does anyone else agree that it doesn't really make sense to say this in the lead? It's not like there's an ongoing T.V. show and Nimoy and Quinto switch off playing him week to week. I think it would make much more sense to say "The character will be portrayed by both Nimoy and Zachary Quinto in the 2008 film Star Trek. I will change it to this unless anyone disagrees. --DanyaRomulus 22:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Agree. Change it. Sir Rhosis 03:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] one of the few aliens

He is one of the few aliens in the permanent cast: I don't remember any other aliens in the permanent cast? --Fredrick day (talk) 15:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it would be more correct to say that he's the only alien in the permanent cast. In fact, apart from Spock, I can't think of any other alien character that appeared in more than one episode. (Harry Mudd and perhaps a Star Fleet commodore or two appeared in multiple episodes, but obviously they were all humans.) — Loadmaster (talk) 03:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of hand gesture

Leonard Nimoy explains the origin of the "Live long and prosper" hand gesture in this article:

• Bowman, David (2002-09-06). Mr. Spock's nudes. Salon.com. Salon Media Group. Retrieved on 2007-12-12. “I saw the priestly gentlemen in my congregation that I was attending with my family doing this with their hands over the congregation. [Nimoy makes the Vulcan greeting sign with his right hand!] I was intrigued. I learned later that that was the shape of the letter Shin in the Hebrew alphabet and that was the first letter in "Shekhina." It's also the first letter in the word "Shaddai," which is the name of the almighty. I understood that.... I said to the director, "There should be some special thing that Vulcans do." He didn't quite get it at first. I said, "Well, humans shake hands with each other. Asian people bow to each other. Military people salute. What do Vulcans do?" He said, "Well, OK. What do Vulcans do?' I said, "How about this?" [Nimoy makes the hand gesture.] And she did it in response. And that's how we did it. It's as simple as that. But it resonated very quickly. Within days after that show airing, I started getting people doing this [makes gesture] to me on the street.”

I don't normally edit Star Trek, so I'm leaving this for other editors to evaluate. I'm also wondering if interviewer's name is a pseudonym. / edg ☺ ☭ 08:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ancestry

While it's mentioned in the article for Amanda Grayson, it's not mentioned here that one of Spock's ancestors is (implied to be) Arthur Conan Doyle, quoting a line from Sherlock Holmes in Star Trek VI. Shouldn't that fact be included in this article as well? — Loadmaster (talk) 03:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and added it, as it's a direct quote from Spock himself. — Loadmaster (talk) 19:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree that Spock's use of the quote means that one of his ancestors is implied to be Arthur Conan Doyle. I've always interpreted that scene as Spock taking the credit for the quote. That seemed to be a running gag in this movie, as in the original series - the Klingons claiming that they wrote the "original Hamlet", or Chekov claiming that the Russions invented just about everything. Theepdought (talk) 20:28, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't follow your logic. Spock said:

An ancestor of mine maintained that if you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

So how does that imply that he is taking credit for the quote? — Loadmaster (talk) 22:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Loadmaster - what I meant (that I didn't say clearly) was that Spock is claiming that a Vulcan made the quote rather than a human (Doyle). Theepdought (talk) 03:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll have to dig around to find the article, but Meyer and Nimoy have both said this was a joke, not meant to imply anything about Spock's actual ancestry, but just a throwaway joke. It comes off in the film as a joke. I can't believe anyone would take this seriously enough to say that Spock was descended from Conan Doyle. The mind boggles. Sir Rhosis (talk) 02:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

On the other hand, Spock is not known for telling jokes, so taking what he said at face value, it's hard to come to any other conclusion. — Loadmaster (talk) 23:53, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

• The Spock of old would not tell jokes -- this was the reborn, post-Genesis Spock. But no need to quibble, I'll see if I can find a link to where Meyer says it was written and played as a subtle joke. Sir Rhosis (talk) 00:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Should the claim that one of Spocks ancestors is implied to be Arthur Conan Doyle be removed from the article until you find the quote? I ask because I am new here and don't want to piss anyone off want to piss of as few people as I can. --Theepdought (talk) 18:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

• Believe me, finding the quote is way down on my life's priority list. I'll get around to it someday. As goofy as the assertion is that it is anything else but a joke, leave it be for now, unless another editor comes up with the interview citation. Sir Rhosis (talk) 20:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I think the current wording is safe, since it's an implied conclusion derived from canonical works:

In the movie Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Spock quotes a line from a Sherlock Holmes novel, saying that it was said by an ancestor of his, implying that he is maternally related to Arthur Conan Doyle.

If anyone discovers that it was meant as a joke, we can change it then. — Loadmaster (talk) 22:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I am new here, so I hope I'm not out of line - but isn't an implied conclusion OR? The policy page on OR states Drawing conclusions not evident in the reference is original research regardless of the type of source. It seems to me that the claim that Spock is maternally related to ACD is a conclusion drawn from his "ancestor of mine" quote; yet it is equally valid to conclude that Spock was (mis)attributing the quote to a Vulcan paternal ancestor. Using the logic offered above, one could argue that it is implied that Shakespeare was a Klingon (You haven't studied Hamlet until you've read it in the original Klingon - quote to that effect from the movie). Respectfully, --Theepdought (talk) 18:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC)