User talk:Spiorad
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[edit] License tagging for Image:Victoriawiki.jpg
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[edit] Sorry
Sorry, I was a bit uncivil removing some links to Reminiscence therapy, I should have simply said "rv internal link that's out of place here". Hope there are no hard feelings. Your article is very interesting. --CliffC (talk) 22:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
No problem. Thank you for your interest. Spiorad (talk) 13:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Our Lady of Walsingham
I have declined this particular speedy deletion. I'm curious why you think this may have been advertising, because I don't see it. Could you clarify your stance? I see this as a referenced, legitimate, and historical term. You may respond here, I'll watchlist your page. Thanks. - Philippe | Talk 17:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for looking at this so promptly and I accept your observation. I feel that the author has used the page for a simple listing of parishes around the world which share a religious affiliation under a pretext of an article and this seems less than the standard required. There are clear similarities in style with another article on Walsingham and this seems, again, to be marketing tool rather than an article. Refernces seem to rely on one article which is a little weak. The information on the page is well known material and not necessarily drawn from Scharma's work. However, as I have said I accept your comment with ease.Spiorad (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks, I appreciate the explanation. I agree with you that the listing of parishes is a bit weak - I want to get a second opinion on that, because my instinct is to edit it to remove them from the article as non-notable. The single ref is an issue, but probably one that any of our thousands of gnomes could deal with fairly quickly - I'll stick a references request on it and see what they can come up with. It's like magic. :) In any case, I could see an argument like yours making it through AfD - I'd probably comment against it, under the grounds that it IS a fairly common term in British historical circles, but I don't think it's incredibly out of the realm of possibility for it to pass an AfD. I was just curious about your reasoning, and appreciate you taking the time to explain. Thanks! - Philippe | Talk 23:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
=Proposed article 'Old Catholicism' -
[edit] Old Catholic Church
The Old Catholic Church is not one entity but is a community of Christian churches. Many of these were German-speaking churches of laymen and clergymen who seperated from the Roman Catholic Church in the 1870s because of the promulgation of the dogma of papal Infallibility by the First Vatican Council of 1869–1870. The term "Old Catholic" was first used in 1853 to describe the members of the See of Utrecht, who were not under Papal authority. The Continental European Old Catholic Churches are usually a part of the Union of Utrecht. There are now English speaking Old Catholic Churches in the United Kingdom and North America not "in-communion" with the Union of Utrecht. The Old Catholic Church of Slovakia is an example of a Continental European Old Catholic Church that removed itself from the Union of Utrecht for doctrinal reasons. Contents
[edit] History
The Church in the Netherlands that became known as the Old Catholic Church has a long history with its origins in the missionary work of Saint Wilibrord in the 7th Century. Saint Wilibrord established a diocese at Utrecht. In addition, Saint Wilibrord established the dioceses at Deventer and Haarlem.
The Dutch Church has always argued that the Diocese of Utrecht has the right to elect its own bishops, a peculair priviledge granted in 1145. This privilege is argued to have been affirmed by the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215. In 1520, the autonomy of Utrecht was strengthened when Pope Leo X conceded to the 57th Bishop of Utrecht (Philip of Burgundy), that neither he nor any of his successors, nor any clergy or laity from Utrecht, should ever be tried by a Roman tribunal. During the Reformation period in the 17th Century about one third of the population in the Northern Netherlands remained Catholic, and the popes appointed apostolic vicars (based in Utrecht) to care for these people. Clergy secretly celebrated the sacraments in a variety of places: homes, farm houses and even sheds. German and Belgian missionaries helped the persecuted Catholics. The person named as apostolic vicar was also called Archbishop of Utrecht in partibus infidelium (i.e. Archbishop in the land of unbelievers).
The Dutch Old Catholics became embroiled in the political battle between the Papacy in Rome and the Jansenist heresy leading to a degree of seperation of the Dutch Old Catholics from Rome without the Dutch ever declaring themsleves separate to Rome. Many Dutch Catholics remained in full communion with Rome and with the apostolic vicars appointed by the pope. However, due to prevailing anti-papal feeling among the powerful Dutch Calvinists, the Church of Utrecht was tolerated and even congratulated by the government of the Dutch Republic. In 1853 Pope Pius IX, received guarantees of religious freedom from the Dutch King Willem II, and went on to established a Roman Catholic hierarchy in the Netherlands. Paradoxically, this existed alongside that of the existing Old Catholic See of Utrecht. The Old Catholic Church of Utrecht has maintained apostolic succession, and its clergy thus celebrate valid sacraments. [edit] Impact of the First Vatican Council
[edit] First Vatican Council
After the First Vatican Council in 1870, considerable groups of Austrian, German and Swiss Catholics rejected the teaching on papal infallibility, and left to form their own churches. These were supported by the `Old Catholic´ Archbishop of Utrecht, who ordained priests and bishops for them; later the Dutch were united more formally with many of these groups under the name "Utrecht Union of Churches".
In the spring of 1871 a convention in Munich attracted several hundred participants, including Church of England and Protestant observers. The most notable leader of the movement, though maintaining a certain distance from the Old Catholic Church as an institution, was the church historian and priest Johann Joseph Ignaz von Döllinger (1799–1890), who had already been excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church over the affair. Despite never formally becoming a member of the Old Catholic Church, Döllinger requested and took last rites from an Old Catholic priest.
The convention decided to form the "Old Catholic Church" in order to distinguish its members from what they saw as a novelty (the doctrine of papal infallibility) in the Roman Catholic Church. At their second convention, they elected their first bishop, who was ordained by the non-Roman Archbishop of Utrecht. The Old Catholic Church in Germany received some support from the new German Empire of Otto von Bismarck, whose policy was increasingly hostile towards the Roman Catholic Church in the 1870s and 1880s. In Austrian territories, Pan-Germanic nationalist groups, like those of Georg Ritter von Schönerer, promoted the conversion of Roman Catholics to Old Catholicism (or Lutheranism). Liberal politicians and philosophers also sympathised with the Old Catholic movement.
The Old Catholic Churches within the Union of Utrecht shares much doctrine and liturgy with the Roman Catholic Church, though liturgically it has tended to maintain the Tridentine Rite whereas Roman Catholicism has embraced the Novus Ordo. However, Old Catholicism tends to have a more liberal stance on most issues such as the ordination of women, homosexual activity, artificial contraception and (less frequently) liturgical reforms/innovations such as open communion.
Since the 1990s the Utrecht Union of Old Catholic Churches has ordained women as priests. Dr. Angela Berlis was one of the first women to be ordained to the Old Catholic presbyterate.
[edit] Old Catholics in the United States and Canada
Many Old Catholic bishops in the United States can trace their apostolic succession to Arnold Harris Mathew. Mathew was consecrated bishop on 28 April 1908, inUtrecht by Archbishop Gerhardus Gul, assisted by the Old Catholic bishops of Deventer and Berne, in St. Gertrude's Old Catholic Cathedral, Utrecht. Only two years later, Mathew declared his autonomy from the Union of Utrecht, with which he had experienced tension from the beginning. Bishop Rudolph de Landas Berghes et de Rache (1873-1920) consecrated by Mathew in 1914 brought Old Catholicism to the USA.
Bishop de Landas Berghes arrived in the United States on 7 November 1914, hoping to unite the various independent Old Catholic jurisdictions under Archbishop Mathew. De Landas contributed greatly to the growth and of the independent Old Catholic movement, ordaining and consecrating others including William Francis Brothers and Carmel Henry Cafora.
The largest Old Catholic community in the United States is the Polish National Catholic Church. The PNCC began in the late 19th century over issues concerning the ownership of church property and the domination of the U.S. hierarchy by Irish prelates. The PNCC traces its apostolic succession directly to the Union of Utrecht . Since late 2003, the PNCC has no longer been part of the Union of Utrecht. Among the reasons for disaffiliation are Utrecht's acceptance of the ordination of women together with a more liberal attitude towards the practice of homosexual activity, both of which the PNCC rejects.
[edit] Old Catholicism in the United States
Old Catholics in the United States interpret and understand Catholicism and the Gospel in different ways. Some are conservative, not acknowledging female ordination, excluding persons of lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender identity from full participation in the life and ministry of the Church, and some hold to some version of the Tridentine liturgy. Other groups have established communities that are fully inclusive, embracing people from all social, economic, sexual, gender, national, ideological and ethnic backgrounds, and have participated in the Liturgical Renewal movement started in the 1940s. Some follow closely the foundational documents of the European Old Catholics, namely the Munich Declaration, the 14 Theses and the Declaration of Utrecht, while others find these foundational statements dated, or not in conformity with their views of catholicity.
[edit] The Old Catholic Church in the United Kingdom
Old Catholicism in the United Kingdom can be found in a fragmented form from the missionary work of Arnold Harris Mathew onwards although as a movement it did not develop in the way that Mathew oringinally anticipated. Always small in nature compared to Continental Old Catholicism, English Old Catholicism survived in small groups around the country often serpeated by large distances. From the 1990’s onwards a resurgence of energy can be percieved in this part of Old Catholicism with increased links to the USA. The English Catholic (ECC) Church was originally a missionary province of the Old Catholic Church of the USA and is an example of a missionary Church being formed as a result of contact with the USA. In an effort to be useful to Old Catholicism the ‘ECC’ decided, in consultation with other orthodox Bishops, to re-name itself the "Old Catholic Church in Europe" or 'OCCE[1]' to become not just an English language representative for orthodox Old Catholicism in Europe but also to provide an organisation for orthodox Old Catholics to relate to and be cared for on the Western side of the European Continent (the Old Catholic Church of Slovakia similarly for the East).
[edit] Terminology
The term 'Old Catholic' is sometimes confusing as it is used by a diverse number of groups, ranging from ‘traditionalist’ to 'Continuing' or ' 'New Age'. The main determining factor is that the Old Catholic goups in Continential Europe are often, although not always, in formal partnerships arrangements with the Anglican Communion through the agreement of Bonn (1931). The English speaking Old Catholics found in the United Kingdom, North America and elsewhere are not in communion with either the Union of Utrecht or the Anglican Communion. From a survey of the Internet it is evident that some English speaking ‘Old Catholic’ denominations are gatherings of clergy without substantial congregations of the faithful and some allegedly exist only on the Internet. Many of these groups can trace lines of Apostolic Succession through Old Catholic Churches although some bishops also have additional succession through Bishop Duarte Costa and others.
[edit] References
- 1. ^ Catholic Diocese of the Old Catholics in Germany Old Catholic Church Homepage
- Episcopi Vagantes and the Anglican Church. Henry R.T. Brandreth. London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, 1947.
- Episcopi vagantes in church history. A.J. Macdonald. London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, 1945.
- History of the So-Called Jansenist Church of Holland. John M. Neale. New York: AMS Press, 1958.
- Old Catholic: History, Ministry, Faith & Mission. Andre J. Queen. iUniverse title, 2003.
- The Old Catholic Church: A History and Chronology (The Autocephalous Orthodox Churches, No. 3)*Karl Pruter. Highlandville, Missouri: St. Willibrord's Press, 1996.
- The Old Catholic Sourcebook (Garland Reference Library of Social Science). Karl Pruter and J. Gordon Melton. New York: Garland Publishers, 1983.
- The Old Catholic Churches and Anglican Orders. C.B. Moss. The Christian East, January, 1926.
- The Old Catholic Movement. C.B. Moss. London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, 1964.
- The Old Catholics, Anthony Cekada, The Roman Catholic Magazine, 1980.
[edit] See also
- American Catholic Church in the United States
- Catholic Charismatic Church of Canada
- Episcopi vagantes
- The Evangelical Old Catholic Comunion
- Free Church of Antioch
- Independent Catholic Churches
- The Liberal Catholic Church
- Old Catholic Church of America
- Old Catholic Church in Europe
- Old Catholic Church of the Netherlands
[edit] Notable Old Catholics
- Randall Garrett[3]
- Franz Heinrich Reusch
- Warren Prall Watters
- Arnold Harris Mathew
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BetacommandBot (talk) 00:04, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
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