Talk:Special wards of Tokyo

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[edit] Use of word "special"

personally, I've never heard them called "special" before. Is this just a term devised here? Whether or not, perhaps the "S" should be capitalised, otherwise it reads as if they are special for some reason, rather than unique. Eg the following reads rather oddly:

Minato has boundaries with these special wards: Chiyoda. Chuo, Shinagawa, Shibuya

Lsmithgo 23:58, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Lsmithgo,

You raise a good point. The term really is unfamiliar in English. It is, however, an important distinction, and one that's made in Japanese.

Many cities in Japan have subdivisions called ku, which we translate as "ward." (Pardon me if you know this already; perhaps some later readers will benefit from the information.) The old Tokyo City had such divisions until it was abolished during World War II. Later, Tokyo City was never formed again, and to this day, there is no such city. Rather, the former wards have (after various mergers and other restructuring) developed into entities that are just like cities in nearly every respect. These are now officially called tokubetsuku (in Japanese, 特別区). Since tokubetsu means "special," we translate this as "special wards."

This gives rise to a number of difficulties. First, even though their official name is tokubetsuku, people commonly refer to them as simply ku. This goes beyond conversation, as many forms with spaces for addresses ask people to fill in their shi-cho-son-ku, rather than tokubetsuku, even though the ku here applies only to tokubetsuku. Second, nearly all of the special wards call themselves "city" in English, as a look at their English Web sites reveals. So both in Japanese and in English, people use alternatives to "special ward."

What should we do in English? We have various alternatives. I wouldn't mind calling them "cities," and that might give rise to less confusion than the present term does. I chose to call them "special wards" (as you pointed out above), but I'm not at all convinced that it's the best solution. "City" invites one type of confusion; "ward," another. "Special ward" is the exact term, but it's awkward and perhaps misleading in its own way.

As for capitalization, it's a possibility in places such as the one you mentioned. I'm not sure whether I would have capitalized "cities" if I had written "the cities of Chiyoda, ..." in the example.

What would you suggest?

Fg2 07:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I think your explanation is great. Just in English and Japanese, I have always heard them referred to as "23 wards" so personally I would drop the word "special" except when part of the "special" explanation (if you see what I mean...)

Lsmithgo 18:39, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Should be changed to "borough". Tangmo2 05:27, 2 Novermber 2007 (UTC)

Can you point to any official precedent for "borough" in the context of Japanese tokubetsuku? Because I've certainly never heard of that. These are official titles, and you can't just go around making up new translations for them. -Amake 08:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

---Borough is reasonable I guess, but because ward is already well established for reference to Japan's districting I don't think this point is worth pursuing. As for capitalization, I've always been taught to capitalize when it's one body (Shibuya City) but not when it's a series (Tottori, Fukui, and Niigata prefectures). Gunbei (talk) 19:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can they be compared to New York City's boroughs?

You know the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens and Staten Island. Are the wards a similar deal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Craigboy (talk • contribs) 04:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a useful comparison in some ways. Up to 1943, there was a city government in Tokyo, Tokyo had one mayor, and the old wards under that system had even more similarity to the boroughs of New York. Since 1943, however, Tokyo has not had a mayor or a single municipal government. So the comparison breaks down the way things are now. New York has one mayor and one city council. Tokyo does not have a single, city-wide government; it has 23. Tokyo does not have one mayor; its special wards have 23 mayors. City councils too. And the boroughs are counties; Tokyo's special wards are not, and in Japan cities like them are not in counties. But the short answer is yes, you can compare them in various ways. Fg2 (talk) 09:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)