Talk:Special Boat Service

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[edit] Black Troop

Someone deleted the text about the Black Troop in M company. Does this troop still exist? If so, we should re-insert that text. Anthony Appleyard 10:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Haven't heard anything recently that suggests M Squadron's done away with Black Troop. But then again, who outside the Shakies and similar would really know? Mmm... --UD75 18:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motto

The article's introduction has the SBS' motto as the established "Not By Strength, By Guile". Yet, if you do some looking around on the British military's page for the SBS reserve, on the newer knife insignia that replaced the older frog and parachute one, the motto is changed to "By Strength, By Guile". Long story short, did they change the motto or was it some honest mistake? Anyone able to clear this one up for me? --UD75 22:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black Troop/ Motto

A couple of things: What should be said about the motto is: the OFFICIAL motto of the SBS is "by strength and guile" !! kind of important. The UNOFFICIAL motto is "not by strength by guile". the men themselves like this motto better and have chosen it. there are two SBS badges: the unofficial one with two crossed muskets, a frog descending in a parachute and the words "not by strength by guile". the official badge looks a lot like the SAS badge, but in blue and black, without the wings and only saying "by strength and guile". i have photos of both badges but as I am not a member of wikipedia i have no power to upload them. if anybody, however, should be interested in uploading them, however, they could contact me by email: ecrk@online.no . there could also be quite a lot added to the part of Selection, such as having to pass SAS selection first, then going across to the SBS; carrying klepper canoes to the top of Pen Y Fan during selection, etc etc etc. Also: it is not confirmed and has at no time been confirmed that the number of "Swimmer Canoeists" within the SBS is "approx 100". this number is kept secret for reasons of national security and the assumption of 100 could be either right or wrong; it is no more than an assumption. i advise to remove that number from the article as there is no way of knowing if it is right. If anybody needs other info about the SBS feel free to contact me via the previously stated email address.

Image:SBS drawing.jpg
I contacted the above poster and have added the official SBS badge to the main article. The only version of the unofficial (but better known) "parachuting frog" badge that I can upload to wikipedia is the following drawing, which I've posted here so every knows what we are talking about. Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 12:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Para wings worn in SBS

Do Swimmer-Canoeists wear special forces "Egyptian" para wings (on left) or standard British para wings (on right), as the recent edit suggests? Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 13:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

In my experience they wear SF wings, on the left.ALR 13:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

On a similar note: do they wear green or thorn (sand coloured/"beige") berets, and is it "Swimmer-Canoeist" or "SBS Marine"? Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 13:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The specialisation is Swimmer Canoeist so they're known as SCs. They're Marines so they wear the Green lid. Some choose to remain with 22 after completing SF selection, rather than going on to SB selection, and are badged as such for the duration of their secondment before going back to the Corps. Qualified SCs or SC qualified officers may be seconded to 22 but I'm not sure what they'd do then.ALR 13:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The reason I ask is because in recent television news coverage of a funeral (where the deceased was reported to have been a member of an SBS patrol by the media, but whose mod.uk obituary said Para Reg, elsewhere in my research the terms "special reconnaisance unit" and "the Special Forces Regiment" have popped-up) a sand coloured beret could clearly be seen on top of the coffin. Given that the SBS now recruits from the other services I guessed he was Para Reg on secondment to SBS, and that as they are part of UKSF they wear the sand coloured beret of the SAS (as I presumed also did the SRR and SFSG, given that SAS signals can wear it without even attempting SF selection). Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 14:10, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

It's complicated :) MOD do not comment on SF matters and deaths in service are attributed to the original unit, given the medias propensity for calling anything and everything an SF Op then it's difficult to tell. Potentially SFSC supporting SB, possibly a combined patrol, possibly secondee.
Personnel attached to 22 wear the sand beret, I don't know about SFSC and SRR personnel apparently continue to wear the headgear (uniform?) of their parent unit. The Press photos of the SRR formation showed a whole range of different uniforms on parade.
If the soldier was not a Royal Marine at any time, he had not completed the Commando Course, he would not have earned green headdress, therefore IF he was serving with the SBS he would wear either the sand colored beret that he earned during selection, or the maroon lid he earned at Depot. However as far as which beret was placed atop his casket, that would have been a decision made by him previously and communicated to his peers.Cockbeard 03:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
SF Communicators have their own selection, I can't remember the detail but it's about 4 months long and involves a slightly less intense physical phase of 4 weeks then some of the more generic SF training.ALR 14:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I was wrong. SF wings, on the right shoulder.ALR 10:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


i think we need more on training, such as expected times etc for ceratin tasks. similar to the US navy seal article. i would imagine that much of the criteria r probably secret but i know there are many books written by ex-SBS so im sure information could be found and this this could be far improved upon.

Pratj 22:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


According to the Royal navy site, both Brigade Patrol Troop and SBS are parachute-trained at RAF Brize norton. Both the navy and MoD websites show photo's of Marines wearing the standard parachute wings badge. Look for yourself. Tashtastic 15:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou for your useful insight. All parachute training is carried out at Brize, including that for the UKSF. And do you really think that given the sensitivity about the SBS that the RN would be posting pictures of members of the Service on its web site. By far the majority of RM that I've worked with wear standard wings, since a great many go through the jump training, Commando Course is an equivalent of Pre-Para completed by the Parachute regiment. OTOH some former SBS choose to revert to the regular jump badge, since it doesn't draw attention to their heritage as operators, thereby creating a PERSEC risk.ALR 15:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
It's not clear if they are BPT or SBS in the photo's. Check for yourself. If not, what do you mean by Special Forces wings? The same type as listed in the SAS article? Tashtastic 17:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The Brigade Patrol Troop wear conventional parachute wings, since they're not SF, they do the standard jump course. SF wings are upward sweeping so that the top of the badge is horizontal with a dome where the canopy is, and the lower edge has a small discontinuity right at the bottom where the lines of the parachute come together.ALR 17:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


If it was originally called the Special Boat Section, then later the Special Boat Squadron, why is it listed in Wikipedia as Special Boat Service? -- Daran 23:09, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)

  • It was renamed again in 1987 - I've added a bit to the History section. Franey 10:09, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
  • What's the relationship with the Special Operation Executive, Special Operations Executive, SOE? Guttlekraw 15:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I seem to remember the SBS were the first British (or allied?) ground forces into action in both the Falklands and Gulf Wars. Can someone confirm this, and add to the article if accurate? 81.131.235.13 15:47, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
  • This is true, they were active in the Falklands a whole month before the SAS User:86.139.246.191 20:34, 24 October 2005