Talk:Speak No Evil

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The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh) Needs references & more musical detail.

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Contents 1 Speak No Evil is the best album of all time. 2 At least ten Coltrane albums are better 3 Article totally rewritten, or rather, written 4 Controversy? This article is unclear

[edit] Speak No Evil is the best album of all time.

Someone should mention that. 24.7.87.135 08:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] At least ten Coltrane albums are better

In other words, this isn't the place for fanboy sloganeering.

Yeah, name one. Note: no one would claim that Wayne Shorter was a better soloist than Coltrane.

• Name one? Tell ya what. I'll name nine. 1. A Love Supreme. 2. My Favorite Things. 3. Interstellar Space. 4. Sun Ship. 5. Giant Steps. 6. Crescent. 7. Duke Ellington And. 8. Ascension. 9. Blue Train. These are all better than Speak No Evil. And I think all but "Blue Train" (and maybe Ascension) are better than JuJu, which is probably the best Shorter album. - Maggie --70.50.79.164 21:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Speak no Evil has more soul than any of these albums. Also you should check out Live in Stockholm, Coltrane with Eric Dolphy. That's better than any other Coltrane album I can think of, except maybe the one with Harmonique on it, I don't remember the name of that one.

"More soul" than Crescent? "More soul" than A Love Supreme? "More soul" than Blue Train, or Sun Ship, or Ascension, or Interstellar Space? Speak No Evil is a succession of dial-tone themes and elliptical solos, based largely around technical (rather than emotional) ideas - hugely overrated. I find it interesting that reviews of Coltrane tend to emphasize how "spiritual" his records are, whereas reviews of Shorter tend to center on his technical conceits rather than his desultory solos. This is not to say that JuJu isn't a masterpiece, which it is. - Maggie --64.229.184.169 15:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah it does have more soul than those. Also most of Coltrane's career was spent playing solos full of technical conceits, and many of his most famous compositions are also based on purely technical ideas that not translate into beautiful music, i.e. Giant Steps, Moment's Notice. I find the ideas in Speak no Evil to be very emotional. Love Supreme is boring and Blue Trane is uninspired. McCoy quit shortly after a Love Supreme by the way, and he's a pretty good judge.

Actually, McCoy quit about ten albums after A Love Supreme - among the LPs he participated in after it were The John Coltrane Quartet Plays, Ascension, Sun Ship, First Meditations, Meditations, Om, and a few others I can't recall. And his own (astonishing) The Real McCoy from 1967 sounds almost exactly like a comprimise between Crescent and Sun Ship. You're entitled not to like Coltrane, but to suggest that his playing consists of nothing but impenetrable technical virtuosity isn't at all accurate. It might have been true in 1957, or on Soultrane (although even there I don't think it's true), but Blue Train is full of feeling, and the only reason why anyone might say otherwise is that Coltrane's playing is so frenetic that it's somewhat imposing. I blame Lewis Porter, to an extent - in attempting desperately to bring forth the inherent structuring devices in the later, free-jazz period, he made the music seem almost calculated, which is an absurd thought in light of the euphoric, freeing Interstellar Space.

Furthermore, though Shorter's technique was somewhat limited, he was just as technically supercilious: "JuJu" is an extended whole-tone scale game, and on Night Dreamer he used a lot of cycle-of-thirdses. Speak No Evil happens to be much more conventional by comparison, but his "adventurous" chord changes and "limpid cello-like tone" are sound effects like anything else. Look at the liner notes for Speak No Evil - all that nonsense about "built on fourths" and "major-minor chromatic shifts". Just technical conceits. It doesn't help that "Infant Eyes" is excruciatingly dull, and, as I've said, "Witch Hunt" and "Speak No Evil" sound like busy signals. -Maggie --70.50.79.251 15:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you understand jazz at all. Maybe you once did. I suggest that you examine your life.

[edit] Article totally rewritten, or rather, written

And quite brilliantly, I might add. Not bad for someone who doesn't even really like this record. -Maggie --70.50.79.251 21:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, a good job.

Thanks, mate! Feel free to make changes/additions, of course. - Maggie --70.50.79.251 15:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy? This article is unclear

This article offers no source for the "controversy" regarding Hubbard's playing. What controversy? The article cites his "effusive presence" as the culprit, but then later states that he is "uncharacteristically low-key".