Talk:SPECTRE

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I think that SPECTRE should be divided into first, the SPECTRE of the Ian Fleming books and then second, into the SPECTRE of the James Bond movies. Since SPECTRE was the creation of Ian Fleming and only existed in his books until the movies were made, the SPECTRE of the books is, in my opinion, the more definitive SPECTRE. According to my memory, SPECTRE's first appearance anywhere is in the book, "Thunderball". Therefore, any other claims about "From Russia with Love" being the first appearance are incorrect, since the books were written before the movies and the book, "From Russia with Love" makes no mention of SPECTRE at all, all evil in the book is done by SMERSH, which is NOT SPECTRE. Since the book came before the movie and was written by the inventor of SPECTRE and the movie was created later and was not written by the inventor of SPECTRE, I fail to see how it could be considered definitive about SPECTRE. I have not edited the page to remove the incorrect and false sentence "Led by Ernst Stavro Blofeld, the organization first formally appeared in the novel and movie From Russia With Love, and subsequently in a number of James Bond films" at this time but I see no reason why it should not be corrected. SPECTRE appears nowhere at all in the book "From Russia with Love", it is never mentioned anywhere in the book. Therefore, the statement that it first formally appeared in the novel, is incorrect.

In the history of the Ian Fleming books on James Bond, the first antagonist is the Soviet Union, represented by SMERSH. SMERSH was a real organization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smersh which Ian Fleming changed slightly and made into the antagonist of his earliest Bond books. Later books then introduced his second antagonist, SPECTRE. SPECTRE's first appearance was in Thunderball, not From Russia with Love. If you visit the SMERSH wikipedia page, you will find: "However, in most of the later film adaptations the independent criminal organization SPECTRE was substituted [for SMERSH] to avoid the connotation of fomenting hate for the Soviet Union and contributing to a destabilization of relations with that nation. SMERSH is mentioned in the early Bond film From Russia with Love, but doesn't play an active role in the plot. A masquerading reactivation of SMERSH appears in Timothy Dalton's first Bond film, The Living Daylights. It is also briefly mentioned in No One Lives Forever and figures in the 1967 Bond spoof Casino Royale."

Ian Fleming's first nine James Bond books:

  1. Casino Royale 1953 - Antagonist: SMERSH
  2. Live and Let Die 1954 - Antagonist: Mr. Big
  3. Moonraker 1955 - Antagonist: Sir Hugo Drax, who was working for the USSR / SMERSH
  4. Diamonds Are Forever 1956 - Antagonist: Seraffimo Spang
  5. From Russia with Love 1957 - Antagonist: SMERSH
  6. Dr. No 1958 - Antagonist: Dr. No, who was working for the USSR
  7. Goldfinger 1959 - Antagonist: Goldfinger
  8. For Your Eyes Only 1960 - Antagonist: Several
  9. Thunderball 1961 - Antagonist: SPECTRE

Fanra 10:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


Should we remove the S.P.E.C.T.R.E. henchmen for OHMSS and Diamonds Are Forever? Technically they were henchmen for Blofeld, not S.P.E.C.T.R.E.. This article even makes mention of that. Perhaps move them to Ernst Stavro Blofeld? K1Bond007 03:35, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

I was under the impression that SPECTRE was still active in OHMSS, since Bond tells Draco: "...an organization known as SPECTRE OPERATES worldwide." Copperchair 7 July 2005 06:32 (UTC)

He was unaware that SPECTRE was gone. He makes the same allegations in the novel and is always thinking that Blofeld had vanished (thus the search in OHMSS and technically The Spy Who Loved Me) to reform SPECTRE. SPECTRE is never again seen like it was in Thunderball, which is why most believe that Blofeld was working on his own. K1Bond007 July 7, 2005 06:56 (UTC)

The official site says SPECTRE still existed in this movie. Copperchair 05:11, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

No, it says he's at "pinnacle of the SPECTRE empire" (the head of). SPECTRE is dead though see above. K1Bond007 05:21, August 14, 2005 (UTC)


In the game Evil genius, there are 4 'good organisations', named H.A.M.M.E.R., P.A.T.R.I.O.T, A.N.V.I.L. and S.A.B.R.E. . Although these are 'good' organisations, i think that they deserve to be mentioned here.

That game actually should be listed at James Bond parodies, since it makes obvious referrences to Bond (and Austin Powers too). Better than this article anyway. K1Bond007 16:37, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

I think that SPECTRE existed from the time Bloefeld founded it until he died. Even though it may not have been as large in its final appearances, it still existed, even in minor forms. In the novel On Her Magesty's Secret Service, Bond refers to Bloefeld's organization as SPECTRE, even though it is not as large as it was in Thunderball. I also agree with the above statement about the movie, OHMSS, stating that SPECTRE still existed. Bond said that it operated world wide, which meant that he couldn't have been wrong about SPECTRE still existing. If it had collapsed, he would have known it. Since Bloefeld constantly revived SPECTRE until he died, it can be assumed that SPECTRE's existance continued until Bloefeld met his maker. Also, the DVD box to OHMSS specifically stated that SPECTRE was the villianious organination in the movie. Emperor001 02:39, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Article Title

Shouldn't this article be moved from "S.P.E.C.T.R.E." to "SPECTRE"? Most references to the organisation on this page do not use the full stops, and even the official site, MMPR (and on Blofeld 2 page), uses "SPECTRE". Additionally, I've never seen it before with the full stops, and it's sort of a long abbreviation (usually they appear without them). Further, it's "SPecial", so really, shouldn't it be "Sp.E.C.T.R.E" or something if it's to have the full stops? I could be wrong, but it seems there's overwhelming evidence to suggest "SPECTRE" over "S.P.E.C.T.R.E." Bond, James Bond 01:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The 'P' is debatable. I think it's only capitalised to make it stand out (in addition to being bolded). The article title should probably be SPECTRE. I believe that's how Fleming, for the most part, used it. K1Bond007 05:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] WTF?

In the first paragraph, this: "Its first appearance was in Ian Fleming's James Bond novel, Thunderball, and subsequently in a number of James Bond films including the very first Bond film, Dr. No, where it has been the spy's most persistent opponent."

WTF mate? First appearance in thunderball, subsequently in the *first* film. huh? Am I the only one confused by this?

-- Graham

Dr. No is a S.P.E.C.T.R.E. agent in the film.
-- VD for VANDitta
I think the point was that the use of the words "first appearance" and "subsequntly...the...first" are contradictory. It is a little confusing, but I think what is meant is that SPECTRE first appeared in the novel, which came before all the movies. Subsequently, SPECTRE appeared in the first movie.
202.6.138.33 04:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Backwash?

H.A.R.M may jokingly refer to Human Aetiological Relations Machine, the name of a fictional intelligence agency featured in the B James Bond backwash film Agent From H.A.R.M.

What is a "backwash film"? Nothing good, I assume. Is this a standard term? Lowerarchy 18:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Consortium by MR UNSEEN

Can the Consortium from the act of war games be considered a spectre clone —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.126.66.189 (talk) 14:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] SCORPIA

Will whoever keeps removing SCORPIA from the parodies and clones section please stop because the organisation SCORPIA is a main antagonist from the well-known Alex Rider novels and its constant removal is really becoming quite annoying.

Anon

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Any issues with McClory regarding post-Thunderball films?

Although it's well documented that Spy Who Loved Me was originally to have been a Blofeld/SPECTRE film until McClory squawked, I haven't been able to find any indication that he fought SPECTRE and Blofeld's use in OHMSS, You Only Live Twice and Diamonds Are Forever (or, for that matter, Dr. No and From Russia with Love, both of which were made after the Thunderball court case). Does anyone know if McClory tried to block SPECTRE appearing in any of these films as he successfully did with Spy Who Loved Me? 23skidoo (talk) 19:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Number

Did number in the movie really reflect rank? In FRWL, Kronsteen (No. 5) critized Klebb (No. 3). If number was rank, wouldn't Kronsteen have been afraid of insulting his superior? Also, in You Only Live Twice, Osato (no number) is shown giving orders to No. 11. Maybe only numbers 1 and 2 had any significance and all others meant nother. Besides, it seems kind of strange to have a cabinet of about 20 people and everyone, except the bottom guy, is above someone. It makes more sense to have several equals and then a top two. Emperor001 (talk) 02:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the Name "SPECTRE"

Most of SPECTRE's members come from the Soviet Union. Of course James Bond films would harp on the Cold War. The very first line of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto reads, "A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism". I was wondering if this might have influence Ian Flemming and his name for SPECTRE. What do you think?

For some reason, Fleming liked the word spectre as he used it in Diamonds Are Forever (name of a town: Spectreville), From Russian with Love (Spektor decoding machine), and then as SPECTRE. He also had an apparent love of gold: Mr. Big was a gold smuggler, Goldfinger, and The Man with the Golden Gun. Emperor001 (talk) 04:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Osato

Since when is Mr. Osato Number 8. No one called him that in the movie. Emperor001 (talk) 02:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)