Talk:Sparta Prague

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move. Despite the appeals to officialdom, the WP(NC) is fairly clear on the issue. Duja► 13:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

AC Sparta Praha → Sparta Prague — The common usage in English is Sparta Prague, it even states this in the article. See English language media such as BBC [1], ESPN [2] —John Hayes^talk 12:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose I believe all clubs (and not only clubs) should be under their official names. BTW: Did you notice there's not only football Sparta? Other sports should then need a disambiguation word. Honza Záruba 21:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose - Yep I agree with Honza. --Тhε Rαnδom Eδιτor 19:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support Please note that "official name" is not the naming convention taken in WikiPedia. The name most commonly used by English speakers is. (Please see discussions below.) --supernorton 04:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
• Support. WP:NC#Sports teams and WP:UE clearly call for the English name as used in the examples cited in the nomination above. — AjaxSmack 06:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose as per User:Honza Záruba —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Rundle (talk • contribs) 17:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support for the reasons given by supernorton & AjaxSmack. - Ev 01:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Sports teams has stated clearly:

That's why this article should be named Sparta Prague. --supernorton 04:25, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus for the move --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 17:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Sparta Prague → AC Sparta Praha — Since the above Requested Move was completed, the naming conventions for sports teams have changed. The conventions state that, where a club's website has an English language section, the name used on said website should be used, provided that that name has been adopted at least by a significant section of the English-language media (as determined by number of hits on Google News) and it is recognisable and it is not easily confused with other clubs' names. Sparta Praha's English language website is located at http://www.sparta.cz/en/, and lists the club's name as "AC Sparta Praha". This is not very different from "Sparta Prague", which most people would recognise, and the name is not easily confused with other clubs' names as it is differentiated from all other clubs called "Sparta" by having the name of their home city in the title. Furthermore, there are no other clubs in Prague called Sparta. Finally, although "Sparta Prague" is still the predominant name used in the media (88 GNhits to 12 GNhits for "Sparta Praha"), "Sparta Praha" has been adopted by such websites as Goal.com and UEFA.com, as well as being used in World Soccer Magazine. — PeeJay 18:25, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose Although they refer to themselves as such on their website, I do not believe Sparta Praha has been adopted by a significant proportion of the media. UEFA (7 of the 12 hits) do not count as they always use the local name rather than the English even when writing in English (this is why they were deliberately not included in the naming conventions policy; for instance they use Bayern Munchen rather than Bayern Munich). Another four of the 12 hits for the Czech name are actually Czech websites. Sparta Prague is by far the most common name for the club. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Also note that Slavia Prague will remain at the "Prague" location, as that is its undisputed common and official English name; it would be a little silly if we had Slavia Prague but Sparta Praha. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I think you'll find Slavia Prague's preferred English name is, in fact, "SK Slavia Praha", as per their official English website (http://www.slavia.cz/index_en.asp). – PeeJay 21:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
      • Not according to this. пﮟოьεԻ 57 01:12, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
        • Ah, well spotted. I hadn't noticed that myself. However, on both the main page and the Club Info page, they are referred to as "Slavia Praha". – PeeJay 01:28, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  • UEFA were removed from the policy because the policy was meant to refer to all sports teams, not just UEFA football teams. They were not removed just because they prefer local names. - MTC (talk) 20:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
    • No, they were removed because I made the above point during the debate regarding the proposals. пﮟოьεԻ 57 01:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

      You made that point and it was argued, then lower down someone made the far more compelling argument that the policy should be for more than just UEFA football teams, which seems to me the main deciding factor in UEFA and FIFA being removed. In fact, I only notice one editor who seemed to agree with your point. - MTC (talk) 07:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Support - AC Sparta Praha is not only the local name, but is used by a number of English sources too. More than enough reason to move it. - MTC (talk) 20:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually, it is used in one article by one English source, Goal.com (UEFA is not an English source), but even Goal.com actually use Sparta Prague most of the time (7 hits vs 1). пﮟოьεԻ 57 01:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

    A quick Google search shows more than one English source using Sparta Praha, and that's beside the point anyway, the fact that it's the local name and the official site in English uses it should be more than a good enough reason. - MTC (talk) 07:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Support - per MTC. -- Arwel (talk) 21:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
• Support - as per MTC, and the same for any other Praha teams for consistency. - fchd (talk) 09:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
• Support – AC Sparta Praha is the only name of the club, all others are just informal or wrong. And also per my comment above. Honza Záruba (talk) 10:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
• Support per above. Punkmorten (talk) 11:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose - The policy WP:UCN states that the common name in English should be used. The vast majority of sources and in general conversation use Sparta Prague. UEFA always call the club by its local name, similar to the way the UN calls Burma Myanmar. Therefore their decision should be taken with a pinch of salt. Perhaps in a few years Sparta Praha will become the most common use. Until then I cannot support. EJF (talk) 15:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - WP:UCN is superseded in this case by WP:NC#Sports teams, which I explained in the nomination. – PeeJay 15:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Google News returns only four hits for "Sparta Praha" (2 of them being English versions of Czech newspapers/websites)[3], whereas "Sparta Prague" returns 43 hits [4], so the no ambiguity test suggested in WP:NC#Sports teams simply fails (not a significant portion of the English-language media). --Angelo (talk) 11:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - As a sidenote, although "Sparta Praha" is not as commonly used as "Sparta Prague" in the media (according to Google News), a Google websearch gives 762,000 hits for "Sparta Praha" and 393,000 hits for "Sparta Prague". – PeeJay 22:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Your search considers all languages, not just English. If you force Google to search only for English-language hits, you can see Sparta Praha returns 98,900 hits [5] against 350,000 for Sparta Prague [6]. In addition, WP:NC#Sports teams is definitely clear: the no ambiguity proof requires the name to be "adopted at least by a significant section of the English-language media", and, as we all know, a simple Google search does not restrict its search to English language media websites. --Angelo (talk) 10:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
      • Point taken. I'll leave it up to the community to consider the evidence provided now. – PeeJay 11:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:Angelo.romano; common english usage is prague, not praha. --Mcmullen writes (talk) 21:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose per nominator : "although "Sparta Prague" is still the predominant name used in the media..." Callmederek (talk) 23:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related page moves. – PeeJay 18:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)