Talk:Spanish settlement in the Philippines

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zuni girl; photograph by Edward S. Curtis, 1903 This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.
NB: Assessment ratings and other indicators given below are used by the Project in prioritizing and managing its workload.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the Project's importance scale.
After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses.
WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:
This article is within the scope of Tambayan Philippines, the WikiProject and notice board for topics related to the Philippines. To participate, visit the Tambayan for more information.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Contents

[edit] Filipino Citizens not Spanish citizens Needs lots of clarification

This article needs lots of clarification. It shouldn't be "Spanish citizens" in the Philippines, because that doesn't make sense, they're of Spanish descent but their citizenship is the Philippines, so they're not Spanish citizens, they're Filipino citizens. My goodness. But I admire the idea of this article as important to the assessment of the entire population of the Philippines.

Erasing this sentence: "the Spaniards have since integrated and became part of the Philippine society" because they have always been a part of Philippine society, it implies that they were never Filipinos, which is of course false, because they are as Filipino as any brown-skinned person —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.70.59 (talk) 02:59, 2 December 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Article Name

The article name should be spanish Filipino..which is not missleading...to anyone.....there are all the other articles of the filipino sub groups like filipino mestzo ....etc...in the english language it is known as: Spanish=Ancestry, filipino=Nationality.. All the other articles of other ancestry ahave their descent named before thier nationality.. ohh and we need to find only people with Spanish ancestry..not using Mestizo people..that are partly of another race....thats not of European ancestry....there is another article for that one.. August 2007 (UTC)

The title is as straightforward as you can get. I undid your vandalism on the Canadians of Spanish descent page as well. You can NOT just impose ethnic names on people.

[edit] The article name must be changed

Why it is "Filipinos of Spanish descent"? Why not "Spaniards of Filipino descent"? It's neither of the two things! It's a mix. Thus, it should be just "Spanish-Filipinos". With the actual name, you are supposing that all the mixed Spanish-Filipino people are from the Philippines, when it is not truth. Look at Isabel Preysler or Enrique Iglesias: they are not "Filipinos of Spanish descent"; they are "Spanish-Filipinos". Onofre Bouvila 18:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

---Well, Isabel Preysler is a Filipino of Spanish descent because she was born in the Philippines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.25.1.78 (talk) 13:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verificability

Please cite sources, references and when, eg. 9,000 in 2004?--Jondel 09:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standard Spanish

Most Spaniards are forced to speak the standard, eg. Catalunyans,Basques are forced to speak Castillian in the Philippines.--Jondel 09:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I don’t know for sure if that’s accurate, but that is interesting, because I myself have never heard Catalan or Basque spoken or even mentioned by any Pinoy, including Catalans and Basques themselves.

My grandmother used to speak Valenciano as a child and was forced to speak in standard Philippine castellano.--Jondel 00:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mexicans

There were actually many Mexicans in the Philippines during the colonial period. I don't know if they should be mentioned.--Jondel 01:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] question

why aren't there a great amount of Spanish Mestizos and/or full blooded Spaniards in the Phlipines as there is in Latin America. People have said it was because there wasn't any work in the Phlipines as there was in Latin America. What about the silk? Could it not be a great place to trade silk with the Chinese in there Spanish colony the Philipines. Well they say it was hard to get there. How? they did get there obviously. So how hard is it to get there again? Again why so many Spanish Mestizos and full blooded Spaniards in Latin America and not so many in the Phlipines. There is a fair amount of Filipinos who look or even are mistaken for Latinos. Even though Filipinos who have Spanish surnames does not always nessiarly mean they are of Spanish orgin. But surnames that were not given to familes by the Spanish and surnames not taken by the Family means they have Spanish orgin.

There was a mass exodus of ethnic Spaniards during World War II, that’s why very few are now left.
You mean, a mass exodus right after WW2. Not many civilians could travel during the war. --Jondel 21:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

--there is a large mestizo population, the only problem is in the way filipinos define what a mestizo is. most have a wrong misconception, they only look as mestizos with white skin, a mestizo could be walking around saying how mestizo an actor/actress is not even realizing his own spanish blood in himself

[edit] about Mestizo category

Why is the Mestizo category, removed all the time?? when in fact most of the SpanisH-fILIPINOS listed here are 100% Mestizos! Why don't you removed the Mestizo category in the Tornatras category, since most of those people listed are not even European looking. Mestizos are supposed to be European looking. User:Gonzalo...1960

Gonzalo, most does not equal all or by necessity. Please do not try to exclude Philippine citizens those who indeed are of unmixed Spanish ancestry—people like yourself. Moreover, Spanish mestizos are mentioned in the article as a subgroup. Should you wish to expand that section, no one is stopping you; in fact, it would be very much appreciated.
As for the Tornatrás, it does not matter whether or not they look Spanish, as technically they still are mestizo, defined, according to the Mestizo article, as “people of mixed European and indigenous non-European ancestry (emphasis added).” Genotype does not completely determine phenotype.
Correction: They still had been mestizos. I just realized—and even the Tornatrás article states—that the term ‘tornatrás’ has long fallen into disuse, much like ‘Negro’ has in the Americas. Unlike ‘Negro’, however, almost no present-day Filipinos are even aware of the existence of the word ‘tornatrás’.

[edit] Need Clarifications!

This article is confusesing and it needs 100% clarifications. It should provide accurate details on who is actually is a true Spanish-European Filipino in terms of genetic blood; and who is Spanish-Indigenous Filipino in terms of language and culture. The Spanish Filipino article is focusing on just unmixed Spanish Indigenous Filipinos who are hispanized. -- User:Gonzalo...1960

The initial paragraph states that Spanish-Filipinos are “Philippine citizens of Spanish descent, regardless of ethnolinguistic affiliation, and including, but not limited to, mestizos.” How could it possibly get any clearer than that? And no, just because someone chooses freely whether to adopt Spanish, Japanese, German, Italian, or American customs does not by necessity turn him or her into a Spaniard, Japanese, German, Italian, or American.

[edit] The number of Philippine citizens of Spanish ancestry

I derived the figure of less than 1.5 million or less than 1.8% of the population from the Filipino mestizo page. Since we do not have the exact figures, I believe the infobox should retain the previous stated figure.

I derived the current figure—3.5 million, or 4.1% of the total Philippine population (85 236 913)—from the infobox in the Spanish people article. Changes are welcome should more reliable sources be available.

Hey, I think 4.5 million is pretty high for a 'seemingly invisible minority, any sources?—23prootie 15:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that proportion (4.1% of the total Philippine population) is fair. I study in La Salle-Taft and almost half of the entire campus is made up of Spanish Mestizo looking people. Not only that, La Salle-College of Saint Benilde as well as Ateneo de Manila are also full of Spanish Mestizos. So I think it's really closer to what is really seen. —Matthewprc 12:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

i would agree, that there is probably around 2.5 to 3 million Mestizos of Spanish descent out of 84 million population of The Phillipines. even if there was only 1 million, they are definately not invisible. They own the media and rule politics. Thats why people are mistaken for assuming all Filipinos are mestizos, because the only Filipinos shown on TV are of mixed blood.--Jandela 09:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:V, people. "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.." Also, other Wikipedia articles are not suitable supporting sources. -- Boracay Bill 23:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Language

In which contexts do Spanish-Filipinos of this day and age speak Spanish, English, and Filipino?

Most Spanish-Filipinos nowadays don't speak Spanish anymore - except those who are old, who speak it among themselves (I occasionally hear my relatives) - other than that, they usually speak either English or Filipino. My Mestizo classmates in La Salle usually speak English (or to a lesser degree, English infused with Tagalog). I've never met any Mestizo who is under 40 speaking or knowing how to speak Spanish. —Matthewprc 12:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


I THINK FILIPINOS OF SPANISH & MEXICAN DESCENT OR AT LEAST MESTIZOS ARE MORE THAN 4% I WOULD SAY AT LEAST 30 TO 40%. ALL OF MY 4 GRANDPARENTS ARE SPANISH MESTIZOS .MY RELATIVES ALONE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE FAMILY ARE AT LEAST 5OO ALL SPANISH MEZTISOS AND SOME CHINES MESTIZOS. HALF OF MY HIGH SCHOOL AS WELL AS MY COLLEGE CLASSMATES ARE MESTIZOS LOOKING. I SAW MESTIZOS EVERYWHERE IN MY LAST VISIT IN THE PHILIPPINES. I SEE SPANISH LOOKING FILIPINOS IN MAGAZINES, TEXTBOOKS ETC. MAYBE 4% REFERS TO PURE PHILIPPINE BORN SPANIARDS.

sorry your thoughts are incorrect. I am a Filipino and genetic studies don't lie. We as Filipinos know that 90% of Filipinos (young and old) will claim they have Spanish blood because they think that it is good. Unfortunately in this day and age they're worst fears came true and they did genetic studies revealing that an estimated only 3-4% of ALL Filipinos have any EUROPEAN blood (meaning caucasian blood). And of that number only around 2% are of Spanish descent. Oh well, we are just plain old Asians, does that sadden you? Because if it does you need to evaluate your own mental stability and insecuritys with your identity. --Jandela 09:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roman Catholics

“Overwhelmingly” may have read like an exaggeration or was just a bit too much, so I just put “Predominantly” instead, following the usage on the infobox on German-Brazilians and others.

[edit] escalante

is that the name of a Filipino-Spanish family? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.175.83.141 (talk) 00:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Redundant?

It's quite funny how this article is named Spanish-Filipinos. Isn't it that the term originally referred to the Philippine-born Spaniards? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.9.55.188 (talk) 20:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

The meanings have since changed. Look at Filipino, which once also referred to the same group of people but which has now been extended to include all other people born in the islands (and nowadays, to citizens of the country), whatever the ethnicity.

[edit] Filipinos of Mexican descent 'should be' mention

This article only talks about Spanish Filipinos, What about Mexican Filipinos. Why aren't Filipinos of Mexicans descent ever mentioned in this article? It seems abit biased. There are thousands of Mexican descent in the Philippines and Mexicans of Filipino descent in Mexico. Why only Spanish is mentioned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.106.220.144 (talk) 11:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

Reply: Just letting you know. There are 600,000 (0.6%) Mexican peoples who posses Filipino ancestry in Mexico. Check this out. [1]

IMHO, topics concerning these people should be dealt with in an article about Mexican citizens of Filipino descent. Should they be prominent enough in Mexican society, surely they’d deserve their own article on WP. Cheers.


I Was in Acapulco 7 years ago and there was a strong presence of Philippines in their history. There is a replica of of Filipno galleon as in the "Galleon trade" in the park. There was also a race between Acapulco and Manila to commerate the several hundred years of the galleon trade. There are Filipino looking Mexicans. They are not mestizo looking.They look very Malay Filipno. I swear they would talk to me in tagalog.

[edit] Amerindian descent

The Stanford study pertains only to European and not Amerindian gene markers.

[edit] Misleading opening line changed

The opening line was changed as it was misleading. It was incinuating that on one hand Filipinos are Austronesian and on the other they are of Spanish Descent. Misleads the reader into thinking there is a significant population of Spanish/Filipino mestisos in The Philippines when in fact they only make up around 2% of the population. Please feel free to better word the first line as long as it states the facts without trying to mislead the reader.--Jandela 09:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)