Talk:Spanish State

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The official name of 1936/1975 Spain always was the Kingdom of Spain (Reino de España).General Francisco Franco Bahamonde was a monarquic party (His Majesty Alfonso XIII was his nupcial´s testify) but he was his diferences with the spanish princes and princess . Also it is the modern name. But the spanish king, Juan Carlos I, is "Constitutional King of Spain" or "Rey Constitucional de España".

Umm. Wikisource:es:Fuero de los españoles has no mention of reino, but wikisource:es:Ley de Sucesión en la Jefatura del Estado talks about el Reino but not el Reino de España. Can somebody find some international document about say, Spain joining the UN? --Error 01:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This is wrong

I am not sure about the fact that it was called officially "Spanish State" during the Franco period. Anyway, this name is the name given to Spain when talking about the official institutions, about the state, and this name is used nowadays, and it was used too in the times of the Second Spanish Republic. So it's wrong to monopolize it for its usage under the Franco regime. This article should be mixed with Spain under Franco, or at least it should go into a different article called Spanish State (under Franco), because, as I said, Spain has always been a state: it was the Spanish State under the republic (read its constitution), and it is a Spanish State by now.

That's it. It should be fixed.. Onofre Bouvila 23:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

I bring some: what about the translation of the extracts after choosing (hey, native english speakers). I would like to know your opinion, may be other extracts, etc.:

• 1. ESTADO, NACIÓN Y PATRIA EN EL LENGUAJE POLÍTICO ESPAÑOL. DATOS LEXICOMÉTRICOS Y NOTAS PARA UNA HISTORIA CONCEPTUAL (Proyecto de investigación BFF 2002-01194, del Ministerio de Ciencia y Tecnología).

Javier Fernández Sebastian, Catedrático de Historia del Pensamiento Político en la Universidad del País Vasco.

"Lo cierto es que, como consecuencia de factores sociopolíticos y culturales muy diversos –desde la expansión de los organismos del Estado y de su influjo en la vida económica, hasta el empleo muy frecuente del eufemismo “Estado español” en lugar de España por parte de los nacionalistas catalanes y vascos, e incluso por un sector de la izquierda española–, también durante la transición y en la democracia Estado sería uno de los términos políticos más utilizados". [1]

• 2. ¿Y TÚ DE QUIÉN ERES? Identidad europea y lealtad a la nación

Antonia María Ruiz Jiménez. Dpto. de Ciencia Política y de la Administración UNED; CEACS, Fundación Juan March; EURONAT.

"Esto ha resultado también en un discurso público por parte de las élites políticas y los medios de comunicación social en el que la idea o el concepto de “nación española” está vedado. Alternativamente, las élites tienden a usar términos políticamente más correctos como “este país”, el “estado español” y utilizar símbolos inclusivos como la constitución, en detrimento de la bandera, el himno, el ejército etc. (Jáuregui 2002, Ruiz Jiménez 2002), todo lo cual viene a reforzar la importancia de éstos elementos en la identificación nacional de los españoles". [2]

• 3. For a new political party in Catalonia. Ciutadans manifesto: [3]

• 4. The recent Joan Ferran affair: "Cal arrencar de Catalunya Ràdio i TV-3 la crosta nacionalista (nationalistic discourse-language on catalan public mass media: imagine non public). "A les emissores de la Generalitat no existeix Espanya. La paraula Espanya, un concepte real, vigent i que tothom entén, és exclosa i substituïda sempre per Estat o qualsevol eufemisme o el·lipsi. Les emissores públiques no poden reduir el seu llenguatge al de la cosmovisió nacionalista. Han de fer servir el llenguatge útil dels ciutadans, de tots els ciutadans. Això per no parlar del mapa del temps, en què és senzill saber si plourà a Alacant, cosa que trobo perfecte, però difícil saber si lluirà el sol a Fraga, a 30 quilòmetres de Lleida, o a Madrid, a una hora de vol de Barcelona. ¿I les tertúlies? És inacceptable que en una taula de cinc tertulians, tres o quatre siguin sobiranistes. És un reduccionisme endogàmic intolerable. El país és molt més que això. TV-3 no pot ser com la televisió de Flandes, dirigida exclusivament als flamencs". [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], blackmail

• 5. Inspirational source: Wikipedia in Catalan [10]

• 6. Los batasunnis. It looks silly as source, but this gag from the public-basque TV extracts elements from reality, exaggerating the stereotypes as humoristic recourse orientated to the basque audience. [11]

I would change those sentences (per començar), that's about it:

• "...the term has been picked up by nationalists and even left-wing circles"
• "...for whom the word "Spain" (and all its national symbols) is the taboo, while Spanish State is the euphemism"
• "...since they do not recognize Spain as a nation, as the Spanish Constitution says, but rather as a no-nation state comprised of several nations"

--Call me Elmo ^{Sesame Street} 00:42, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Owdki. The sources above prove the first of your proposals, which I don't oppose. You might add it. The third is also true, but I think it needs context, especially on the "as the constitution says" phrase (which will be explained below). The second one, I oppose on two grounds:

• "Spain is the taboo" is not encyclopedical. Try rephrasing to a less controversial and more appropriate description, but take into account that:
• "Spanish State" is not a euphemism. First, it is, what the constitution says: "La forma política del Estado Español es la Monarquía parlamentaria" (First article, third section), continued at the third article first section: "El castellano es la lengua española oficial del Estado", and the fifth article: "La capital del Estado es la villa de Madrid., and again, in the 11th, 20th, 42nd, 56th (the King being the "máxima representación del Estado Español), 65th, 97th, 102nd, 103rd, 105th,107th, 109th (distinguishing between the Estado and the comunidades autónomas), 116th, 121st, 134th, 137th (about the organización del Estado'), 138th, 139th, 141st, 142nd, 147th, 148th, 149th,... etc. [12].

As to why using a constitutional term, "Estado Español" implies a nationalistic (not of the Spanish nation, but of the other purported "nations")? I don't fully understand. After all, it is also a constitutional term. So, no, I don't agree with the second point. --the Dúnadan 04:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish State not the official denomination?

I think this sentence needs a citation, as I believe it is not accurate: "With the death of Franco and the dismantling of the Francoist regime, the denomination of "Spanish State" ceased to be official, being replaced by "Kingdom of Spain", in that the country was reconstituted as a democratic parliamentary monarchy, where the head of state reigns, but does not rule.".

The current Spanish constitution does not use the term Reino de España (Kingdom of Spain) in any of the articles nor in the addenda.[13]. Surprisingly the term Estado Español (Spanish State) is used in several articles, and the country is referred to, all throughout the constitution as el Estado and not el Reino (please refer to the list of articles mentioned in the above section).

While it is obvious that Spain is a kingdom (in that a king is the head of State), "Kingdom of Spain" is not -at least- a de jure constitutional denomination to refer to the country. As such, I think it is incorrect to say that: (1) the denomination Estado Español has been replaced, since it is still a de jure constitutional denomination (2) that it is a term used primarily by "nationalists"because it is rather a constitutional term. (For those users unaware of the nuances of Spanish politics, the term "nationalistic" is contradictorily not used to refer to those who defend the Spanish nation, but to the separatist regional movements of those regions that claim to be nations themselves).

I think the introduction needs to change accordingly. --the Dúnadan 23:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)